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05-14-2013, 11:07 PM   #1
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Little flash for Pentax Q?

I want an unexpensive flash for the Pentax Q. I need bounce it.
I find the Vivitar DF-183 for $50. It's almost the same Metz 24AF-1 ($90) and Bolt VS-260 ($70). But I read this:
QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote
I tried the Vivitar DF183, which is small and does have bounce (no swivel) but it does not work properly on the K01. There are many different brands of this same flash, including Metz, but other than maybe Metz, I do not trust any of the other brands to work right on the K01.
The Vivitar works fine with the Q? And the Bolt?
I like the Metz... but it's expensive for an automatic flash

05-14-2013, 11:43 PM   #2
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Looks like the Metz won't let you bounce either.
05-14-2013, 11:54 PM   #3
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If you can get a Metz for $90 go for it I say.
05-15-2013, 12:37 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonto Quote
If you can get a Metz for $90 go for it I say.
I don't know. This Metz is a chinese Tumax with a exclusive firmware. So is the same flash that Vivitar and Bolt. Pay $90 when I can have the same for $70 or even $50...
But of course, the Metz work great with the Q. The Vivitar and the Bolt well... I'm not sure

QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
Looks like the Metz won't let you bounce either.
The first time I see it, I was thinking the same. But the three flashes can by bounced


05-15-2013, 04:31 AM   #5
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For some reason there are several flashes that just will not work on the K-01 that work fine on other Pentax cameras. Don't go by the K-01 in selecting a flash for the Q. And you are right about the lower cost Metz flashes not being actual Metz products. Although, I have no problem with Tumax or Chinese manufacture when the product is a quality one. I have a full-size Tumax TTL flash that has been going strong without a hiccup for 2 years.

The Vivitar below sure looks a lot like that Metz flash.


Vivitar Specs:
  • Fully automatic top mounted flash dedicated for Pentax cameras P-TTL
  • Guide Number (ISO 100) - 20m/66ft
  • DSLR Auto Focus
  • Digital Bounce Head, five position 0, 45, 60 75, 90
  • Red Eye Reduction
  • Flash duration - 1/2,000-1/40,000 sec
  • Recycling Time - 0.3 - 10 sec.
  • Number of flashes per battery set - 100 times
  • 2AA alkaline batteries , not included
  • Autofocus/TTL Metering
  • 1 year USA and international warranty
Dimensions 65 - 54 -98mm Weight w/o batt. - 127g

Metz 24 AF-1 Specs:
  • Guide number 24 for ISO 100/21 and 35mm
  • High flash numbers (e.g. 150 full flashes with alkaline-magnesium batteries)
  • Vertically tilting swivel reflector +90
  • LED displays
  • Integrated autofocus flash metering
  • Flash readiness indicator and correct exposure display on reverse of device and in camera viewfinder (subject to camera)
  • 1st and 2nd shutter curtain synchronisation (subject to camera)
  • Automatic fill-in flash (subject to camera)
  • wireless TTL flash mode
  • Ready for the future - Firmware update possible via Metz service camera-specific flash functions
  • Power supply: 2 x AA batteries
  • 439 g with batteries


Last edited by Docrwm; 05-15-2013 at 04:36 AM.
05-15-2013, 11:36 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElvisQ Quote
I don't know. This Metz is a chinese Tumax with a exclusive firmware. So is the same flash that Vivitar and Bolt. Pay $90 when I can have the same for $70 or even $50...
But of course, the Metz work great with the Q. The Vivitar and the Bolt well... I'm not sure


The first time I see it, I was thinking the same. But the three flashes can by bounced
Oh, that is cool. I would love to find a flash that would work for the Q and the NEX 6.
05-15-2013, 05:48 PM   #7
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I actually just got The Metz to try out. The only way I can get it to obtain a proper exposure is to shoot in manual mode.

Has anyone got this to expose well in any other mode? It certainly doesn't seem to use PTTL to balance the flash and shutter speed..
05-15-2013, 11:40 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
For some reason there are several flashes that just will not work on the K-01 that work fine on other Pentax cameras. Don't go by the K-01 in selecting a flash for the Q. And you are right about the lower cost Metz flashes not being actual Metz products. Although, I have no problem with Tumax or Chinese manufacture when the product is a quality one. I have a full-size Tumax TTL flash that has been going strong without a hiccup for 2 years.

The Vivitar below sure looks a lot like that Metz flash.
That is the Vivitar I want! I hope works well in Q...

QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
Oh, that is cool. I would love to find a flash that would work for the Q and the NEX 6.
mmm... NEX-6 needs a Sony flash for TTL. If you buy a manual flash (like a Youngnuo) you can fire the flash in MANUAL in the Q and the NEX-6

QuoteOriginally posted by DaveInPA Quote
I actually just got The Metz to try out. The only way I can get it to obtain a proper exposure is to shoot in manual mode.

Has anyone got this to expose well in any other mode? It certainly doesn't seem to use PTTL to balance the flash and shutter speed..
How you can use the Metz in Manual? This Metz it's full auto. It has not manual mode.


05-16-2013, 12:06 AM   #9
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It's been posted in previous flash threads that Metz also makes the 20 C-2 which is an Auto Thyristor/Manual flash in essentially the same physical configuration, but no TTL metering and no Auto FL selector, so GN is the value for the widest setting in the 24 AF 1. It would work with the NEX (I would assume) with a hot shoe adapter and with the Q as is. With the Q, you need to turn the flash "off" in the flash menu to get it to fire and sync. The 20 C-2 retails for @ $60 USD.

Product information: Metz

Scott
05-16-2013, 04:16 AM   #10
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The advantage of the Metz is you can update their firmware, after the update they will work with the K-01, Q or any other Pentax camera in TTL. I had to update my 48-AF1 flash so it would work on the K-01.

Just for the uninitiated, apologies to all that already know this stuff.

Flashguns alter their light output by altering the duration of the flash, the flash tube always fires on full power, altering the duration alters the light output. On low powers the flash duration can get very rapid 1/50,000th of a second or so.

There are 3 kinds of flashgun (strobe)

The cheapest is manual flash e.g. Yongnuo, You have to empirically set the exposure on a suck it and see basis, if you alter the flash to subject distance the exposure will change, but it is the system that makes controlling the lighting far more controllable and creative with practice. Most studio strobes are Manual.

Manual flash works like this;-

When your taking a flash photograph you are taking two simultaneous exposures, one for the ambient light and one for the light from the flash with manual flash you can control both independently.

ISO and Aperture effect both lighting components the same.

Flash power and flash to subject distance controls just the flash component.

Shutter speed controls just the ambient component. By slowing the shutter speed more of the ambient is recorded, the background gets brighter. By using low ISO, small aperture and as fast as possible shutter speed (the X speed of your camera, for Pentax 1/160th) you record very little ambient and you get a black background. Flash duration will always be much faster than the shutter speed so altering the shutter speed has no effect oh the flash component.

You can have any blend of ambient and flash using manual flash with total control, but it is slower to use and needs practice (and a flash meter). Any auto or TTL flash tends to give you just 'fill in' flash. It 'fills in' the shadows.

The next cheapest which is also used on quite a few older flash is Auto, Auto flash have a sensor built into them that quenches the flash when a certain light level has been reflected off the subject, this usually corresponds with f8. The idea is they give a constant amount of light on the subject no matter what the flash to subject distance is (within it's range).

TTL (Through the Lens) uses the camera as the reflected light sensor, these fire a pre-flash which the cameras metering system reads and from that info calibrates the time constant for the quench circuit using the settings set on the camera, then the camera quenches the flash tube at the correct moment though another contact on the hotshoe. It works well as it's metering the same view that the camera is recording and you can use any aperture.

Chris
05-16-2013, 04:27 AM   #11
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Chris,

That is very interesting about the K-01. I have been able to get 1, and precisely 1, flash to work on my K-01 - the AF540. My Tumax TTL flash and my older Pentax flashes (AF16 & AF400) will not fire on the K-01 but put the AF540 on there and all is good. Don't you have to send the Metz flashes in for the firmware update?

-Robert

QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisJ Quote
The advantage of the Metz is you can update their firmware, after the update they will work with the K-01, Q or any other Pentax camera in TTL. I had to update my 48-AF1 flash so it would work on the K-01.

Just for the uninitiated, apologies to all that already know this stuff.

Flashguns alter their light output by altering the duration of the flash, the flash tube always fires on full power, altering the duration alters the light output. On low powers the flash duration can get very rapid 1/50,000th of a second or so.

There are 3 kinds of flashgun (strobe)

The cheapest is manual flash e.g. Yongnuo, You have to empirically set the exposure on a suck it and see basis, if you alter the flash to subject distance the exposure will change, but it is the system that makes controlling the lighting far more controllable and creative with practice. Most studio strobes are Manual.

Manual flash works like this;-

When your taking a flash photograph you are taking two simultaneous exposures, one for the ambient light and one for the light from the flash with manual flash you can control both independently.

ISO and Aperture effect both lighting components the same.

Flash power and flash to subject distance controls just the flash component.

Shutter speed controls just the ambient component. By slowing the shutter speed more of the ambient is recorded, the background gets brighter. By using low ISO, small aperture and as fast as possible shutter speed (the X speed of your camera, for Pentax 1/160th) you record very little ambient and you get a black background. Flash duration will always be much faster than the shutter speed so altering the shutter speed has no effect oh the flash component.

You can have any blend of ambient and flash using manual flash with total control, but it is slower to use and needs practice (and a flash meter). Any auto or TTL flash tends to give you just 'fill in' flash. It 'fills in' the shadows.

The next cheapest which is also used on quite a few older flash is Auto, Auto flash have a sensor built into them that quenches the flash when a certain light level has been reflected off the subject, this usually corresponds with f8. The idea is they give a constant amount of light on the subject no matter what the flash to subject distance is (within it's range).

TTL (Through the Lens) uses the camera as the reflected light sensor, these fire a pre-flash which the cameras metering system reads and from that info calibrates the time constant for the quench circuit using the settings set on the camera, then the camera quenches the flash tube at the correct moment though another contact on the hotshoe. It works well as it's metering the same view that the camera is recording and you can use any aperture.

Chris
05-16-2013, 05:38 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Chris,

That is very interesting about the K-01. I have been able to get 1, and precisely 1, flash to work on my K-01 - the AF540. My Tumax TTL flash and my older Pentax flashes (AF16 & AF400) will not fire on the K-01 but put the AF540 on there and all is good. Don't you have to send the Metz flashes in for the firmware update?

-Robert
Hi Robert

No, you download the firmware and update using the USB port.

Pentax: Metz

Notice how they mention specifically the K-01. It does work

On point I came across is that you download the Metz updater then run it and then plug in the flash to the USB, if you turn the flash on, as you have to with most cameras, the loader doesn't find it, if you leave the flash turned off it does, took me a while to spot that one, nothing in the instructions.

Chris
05-16-2013, 05:44 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisJ Quote
Hi Robert

No, you download the firmware and update using the USB port.

Pentax: Metz

Notice how they mention specifically the K-01. It does work

On point I came across is that you download the Metz updater then run it and then plug in the flash to the USB, if you turn the flash on, as you have to with most cameras, the loader doesn't find it, if you leave the flash turned off it does, took me a while to spot that one, nothing in the instructions.

Chris
Thanks Chris, that certainly is a nice feature on the Metz.
05-16-2013, 08:22 PM   #14
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Very helpfull ChrisJ! Thanks a lot!

QuoteOriginally posted by snostorm Quote
It's been posted in previous flash threads that Metz also makes the 20 C-2 which is an Auto Thyristor/Manual flash in essentially the same physical configuration, but no TTL metering and no Auto FL selector, so GN is the value for the widest setting in the 24 AF 1. It would work with the NEX (I would assume) with a hot shoe adapter and with the Q as is. With the Q, you need to turn the flash "off" in the flash menu to get it to fire and sync. The 20 C-2 retails for @ $60 USD.

Product information: Metz

Scott
When I have a Canon 1000D, I use a Nikon SB-24 in manual. But it's was very different to the Metz. I just select 1/1 to 1/16 of power. It's was easy.
But the Metz 20 C-2 looks different. I don't understand how it works...


The Metz always fire 1/1 and you moderate the power changing the ISO, apertura or distance?
05-16-2013, 11:39 PM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisJ Quote
The advantage of the Metz is you can update their firmware, after the update they will work with the K-01, Q or any other Pentax camera in TTL. I had to update my 48-AF1 flash so it would work on the K-01.

Just for the uninitiated, apologies to all that already know this stuff.

Flashguns alter their light output by altering the duration of the flash, the flash tube always fires on full power, altering the duration alters the light output. On low powers the flash duration can get very rapid 1/50,000th of a second or so.

There are 3 kinds of flashgun (strobe)

The cheapest is manual flash e.g. Yongnuo, You have to empirically set the exposure on a suck it and see basis, if you alter the flash to subject distance the exposure will change, but it is the system that makes controlling the lighting far more controllable and creative with practice. Most studio strobes are Manual.

Manual flash works like this;-

When your taking a flash photograph you are taking two simultaneous exposures, one for the ambient light and one for the light from the flash with manual flash you can control both independently.

ISO and Aperture effect both lighting components the same.

Flash power and flash to subject distance controls just the flash component.

Shutter speed controls just the ambient component. By slowing the shutter speed more of the ambient is recorded, the background gets brighter. By using low ISO, small aperture and as fast as possible shutter speed (the X speed of your camera, for Pentax 1/160th) you record very little ambient and you get a black background. Flash duration will always be much faster than the shutter speed so altering the shutter speed has no effect oh the flash component.

You can have any blend of ambient and flash using manual flash with total control, but it is slower to use and needs practice (and a flash meter). Any auto or TTL flash tends to give you just 'fill in' flash. It 'fills in' the shadows.

The next cheapest which is also used on quite a few older flash is Auto, Auto flash have a sensor built into them that quenches the flash when a certain light level has been reflected off the subject, this usually corresponds with f8. The idea is they give a constant amount of light on the subject no matter what the flash to subject distance is (within it's range).

TTL (Through the Lens) uses the camera as the reflected light sensor, these fire a pre-flash which the cameras metering system reads and from that info calibrates the time constant for the quench circuit using the settings set on the camera, then the camera quenches the flash tube at the correct moment though another contact on the hotshoe. It works well as it's metering the same view that the camera is recording and you can use any aperture.

Chris
Chris,

Pretty good explanation, but there needs to be a correction.

TTL does read the light reflected off the sensor (or film) but does not use a preflash. It terminates the flash much like AUTO flash units, but the exposure continues until the end of the shutter period, leading potentially to over exposure in strong background light

P-TTL uses the cameras built in metering in the prism taking both ambient light and pre-flash light through the cameras normal metering, and then calculates the flash duration required in addition to the ambient to get the exposure.

TTL is a reactive process, P-TTL is a predictive process
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