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06-13-2013, 07:46 PM   #1
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Will existing Q lenses work on the Q7 without problems?

This question has been raised and the answer appeared to be an unequivocal Yes initially. However, the following footnote was found in the lens section of the Q7 pages on the Pentax Japan website:

"*The 01, 02, 06, and 07 lenses are fully compatible with the 1/1.7-inch size. The ratio for the lens focal length equivalent in 35 mm format has become approximately 4.6. For the 03, 04, and 05 lenses, images are recorded after trimming processing for an angle of view optimized to the image circle of each."

Q7?PENTAX RICOH IMAGING

06-13-2013, 08:16 PM   #2
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So only the 02 gets a real boost in wide angle then?
06-13-2013, 09:58 PM   #3
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They all do. See the diagrams on this page:
Q7?PENTAX RICOH IMAGING
06-13-2013, 09:59 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
This question has been raised and the answer appeared to be an unequivocal Yes initially. However, the following footnote was found in the lens section of the Q7 pages on the Pentax Japan website:

"*The 01, 02, 06, and 07 lenses are fully compatible with the 1/1.7-inch size. The ratio for the lens focal length equivalent in 35 mm format has become approximately 4.6. For the 03, 04, and 05 lenses, images are recorded after trimming processing for an angle of view optimized to the image circle of each."

Q7?PENTAX RICOH IMAGING
I think this is saying that the 01 and 02 need no trimming while the others get some amount of trimming. With the 02, I think we will see a more balanced look with the wide end perhaps a bit weak in the corners and the tele end not exposed by lack of resolution (larger pixels in the new sensor tend to improve the apparent resolution). As for trimming on the 03, I am quite happy with the angle of view and the ability to soften the fish-eye effect as needed, such as in this example: Twins with Timm - James Robins - Powered by Phanfare
As near-180 degree FoV approaches, it becomes nearly impossible to defish the scene.

06-13-2013, 10:08 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by calsan Quote
They all do. See the diagrams on this page:
Q7?PENTAX RICOH IMAGING
The page might have been a bit rushed, and contains at least one glaring error on first blush: the 03 has a much wider FoV than 100 degrees on the Q/Q10 - closer to 160 degrees.
06-14-2013, 03:22 AM   #6
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I agree that the page has some copy editing errors. However, whether a lens works without software editing in camera is a very basic issue and Pentax says that the 03, 04, & 05 need "trimming" in camera. Seems like that is more than a typo since they put footnotes in at least two completely different places on the website saying precisely that. Will thos three lenses mount and operate on the Q7? Absolutely. Do they require special processing and is the recordrd image of the entire image on the sensor, apparently not.
06-14-2013, 07:38 AM   #7
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Yep, I agree. Sorry if I wasn't clear on the previous post. We now know the apparent stages of lens development in the system as 01, 02 and 06 came before the decision to go with a smaller sensor, 03, 05 and 06 came after, and the 07 later still (once the decision to go back to the original plan was made). I suspect implementing trimming was the biggest challenge facing the Q7 engineers.

It seems unlikely that Pentax would go any larger in sensor size for the mount as software trimming is not a particular elegant solution in the first place.
06-14-2013, 07:43 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim Quote
Yep, I agree. Sorry if I wasn't clear on the previous post. We now know the apparent stages of lens development in the system as 01, 02 and 06 came before the decision to go with a smaller sensor, 03, 05 and 06 came after, and the 07 later still (once the decision to go back to the original plan was made). I suspect implementing trimming was the biggest challenge facing the Q7 engineers.

It seems unlikely that Pentax would go any larger in sensor size for the mount as software trimming is not a particular elegant solution in the first place.
I agree and appreciate your comments. This whole area of new cameras is so fraught with negativity around here that these discussions can derail so easily.

I appreciated finding the footnote on the Pentax website and understanding what is involved in adjusting to the new sensor. On the plus side the lenses in question are the Toy lenses (which have not proven very popular) and the Fish-Eye. I really enjoy the little Fish-Eye on the Q so I am looking forward to early adopters reports of how it looks on the Q7.

06-14-2013, 10:55 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
I agree and appreciate your comments. This whole area of new cameras is so fraught with negativity around here that these discussions can derail so easily.

I appreciated finding the footnote on the Pentax website and understanding what is involved in adjusting to the new sensor. On the plus side the lenses in question are the Toy lenses (which have not proven very popular) and the Fish-Eye. I really enjoy the little Fish-Eye on the Q so I am looking forward to early adopters reports of how it looks on the Q7.
As something of an aficionado of moderate fish-eyes (Zenitar, Samyang 8mm, 03), I'm most comfortable with manipulating the images to achieve the most natural perspective given the situation. As I don't shoot brick walls for art purposes, I generally find rectilinear images as unnatural (except the occasional urban architectural shot) just as much as extreme fish-eye creates unnaturally large noses. As such, I'm pretty satisfied with the FoV on the Q because it is much easier to correct than images nearing 180 degrees as indicated in the Q7 perspective (173 degrees - apparently a diagonal measurement).

Not that I'm dismissing the Q7 at all. I would much prefer the FoV of both the 01 and 02 on the new sensor. One would hope that the smoothing has been toned down as well, given the reduced pixel density. The best of all worlds would be a retrofit of the new sensor into the Q metal body. I have a vertical streak down the right side of the viewing screen. Perhaps if I sent it in under warranty they could put in the larger sensor as a side project (just a pleasant thought)!
06-14-2013, 11:36 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim Quote
As something of an aficionado of moderate fish-eyes (Zenitar, Samyang 8mm, 03), I'm most comfortable with manipulating the images to achieve the most natural perspective given the situation. As I don't shoot brick walls for art purposes, I generally find rectilinear images as unnatural (except the occasional urban architectural shot) just as much as extreme fish-eye creates unnaturally large noses. As such, I'm pretty satisfied with the FoV on the Q because it is much easier to correct than images nearing 180 degrees as indicated in the Q7 perspective (173 degrees - apparently a diagonal measurement).

Not that I'm dismissing the Q7 at all. I would much prefer the FoV of both the 01 and 02 on the new sensor. One would hope that the smoothing has been toned down as well, given the reduced pixel density. The best of all worlds would be a retrofit of the new sensor into the Q metal body. I have a vertical streak down the right side of the viewing screen. Perhaps if I sent it in under warranty they could put in the larger sensor as a side project (just a pleasant thought)!
I enjoy my Samyang 8mm and my 03 as well. I have not gotten a Q10 because I prefer the magnesium body of the Q and its styling over the Q10. If the Q7 had the Q body it would be a no-brainer for me. As it is, I'll wait and see what it looks like in the hands of people here I trust.
06-14-2013, 10:28 PM   #11
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※ The 01, 02, 06, and 07 lenses are fully compatible with the 1/1.7-inch size. The ratio for the lens focal length equivalent in 35 mm format has become approximately 4.6. For the 03, 04, and 05 lenses, images are recorded after trimming processing for an angle of view optimized to the image circle of each.
06-15-2013, 03:20 AM   #12
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With the exception of the 03 fisheye, why bother with trimming? The two toy lens are supposed to be distorted ART lenses. So what if they don't cover the edges of the frame? Might add some much needed character to these lenses. Broadening their appeal.
thanks
barondla
06-15-2013, 04:50 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
With the exception of the 03 fisheye, why bother with trimming? The two toy lens are supposed to be distorted ART lenses. So what if they don't cover the edges of the frame? Might add some much needed character to these lenses. Broadening their appeal.
thanks
barondla
Interesting, I wonder if the feature can be toggled on-off via the firmware?
06-21-2013, 02:26 PM   #14
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One thing I just realized:

If Pentax is willing and able to release a larger sensor for an existing mount (the mount system including lenses that are only capable of delivering the smaller image circle), then they could use a similar implementation to support lenses designed for APS-C on a full frame body.

A precedent has been set.
06-21-2013, 03:21 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aegon Quote
One thing I just realized:

If Pentax is willing and able to release a larger sensor for an existing mount (the mount system including lenses that are only capable of delivering the smaller image circle), then they could use a similar implementation to support lenses designed for APS-C on a full frame body.

A precedent has been set.
You're right. And cropping to APS-C on a FF has been done before, so I don't see why Pentax should be afraid to go down that route

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