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06-29-2013, 02:47 AM   #1
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MonoQrome

The latest rumours are the new K-mount full frame may come in a monochrome version like Leica, so how's about a monochrome version of the new Q7?

There were hints dropped by Ricoh of a GRD B&W model last year, so that could mean either they're planning to still do it with their new GR, or maybe those plans have now transferred to the Q7 now it has the same size sensor as the GRD used to.

06-29-2013, 04:52 AM - 1 Like   #2
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Why on Earth would we want or need that when you can select B&W via the front dial of the Q's? Fully functional camera with B&W as an option makes sense, not a B&W only camera.
06-29-2013, 05:19 AM   #3
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More detail.
06-29-2013, 06:28 AM   #4
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After reading about the Leica seems you get a slight B&W image improvement from a dedicated sensor. That might work in the Leica price range but I don't have that much invested in all my Pentax gear. Just think you wouldn't just have a B&W machine but also a color Leica, just the 2 bodies would be 13 grand and you would still have to get a few lenses @ 7 grand a pop. My wife would kill me twice.

Hans

06-29-2013, 06:35 AM   #5
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Much more detail! Would love to see special purpose Qs. Mnochrome, infrared, etc. You could carry small, inexpensive cameras in the bag and it wouldn't weigh 40lbs. Freedom.
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barondla

Check out compact camera contest 66 in compact camera forum. Enter 67. The Q is invited.
06-29-2013, 10:43 AM   #6
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So does this remove the Bayer filter as well as AA?
Some of us don't get the details on why a mono sensor is simply better.
06-29-2013, 10:47 AM   #7
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I like the idea of specialty Qamera bodies. I but doubt that they would be practical to manufacture -- but who knows? Perhaps in-camera processing technology has gotten to the point that sensor swaps might be relatively easy and inexpensive to accomplish.

With the smaller formats (don't forget that the Q system bodies could easily go back to the 1/2.3" sensor for these specialty bodies), the lower relative cost of the sensors could make it more practical to try out the concept of specialty boutique bodies with the Q system with minimal R&D expenditures. With the Q format as opposed to the 36x24 or APS-C formats, ultimate IQ would not have to be the top priority as it would have to be with the larger formats, and a Q boutique body would not have to directly compete with other mfgs offerings in larger formats in this respect. We've all seen that the tiny sensors can hold their own, so specialty Q bodies could easily become the lower cost alternative. As barondla stated, such Q system bodies would cost less than larger format bodies and would take up less room and weigh considerably less as an addition to the kit.

Personally, I'd like to see a slightly larger body for adapted lens use since when the Pentax K2Q adapter is mounted, there's very little body to actually hold on to.

Scott
06-29-2013, 10:53 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimr-pdx Quote
So does this remove the Bayer filter as well as AA?
Some of us don't get the details on why a mono sensor is simply better.
Yes it will since there is no need for both anymore.
AA is needed because of the bayer filter, fevon sensor for example does not use bayer and does not need AA.


When we assume that subject is for example blue then about 1/4th of the sensor is only used and with green its 1/3th.

So removing of both filters can mean 3 to 4 times the resolution increase.

06-29-2013, 11:02 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimr-pdx Quote
So does this remove the Bayer filter as well as AA?
Some of us don't get the details on why a mono sensor is simply better.
Hi Jim,

I'm no expert at this level, but at first glance I'd have to assume that the Bayer would not be needed, and instead of 4 light sensors per pixel to get color reproduction, each sensor could be recorded as a pixel, so we'd get essentially 4x the pixel density. It probably does not work out that way in actuality, but might be close. . .In any case, much of the processing power needed for accurate color reproduction and color effects could be diverted to increase processing speed and for special effects for B&W.

Scott
06-29-2013, 07:55 PM   #10
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Yes the new sensor would have to be a considerable increase to warrant the argument of better acuity of mono sensor..

Still. Quirky, strange, a little silly maybe. Sounds like something Pentax would be interested in :P
06-29-2013, 10:16 PM   #11
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Pentax and Nikon didn't have any problem selling cameras with removed AA filters. Canon has sold more than one IR astro body. The IR can be done after the fact, by a "man in the basement" for $250. Pentax can make your camera to order in 100 color combos. This seems harder than a couple of sensor choices.

I always have to decide what equipment to pack for a particular outing. The Q already eases this some by taking on extreme tele situations. Some times the 10-17 FE gets left behind for the Q & 03 FE. Dragging along a modified APS body for a few IR shots can get heavy. A few specialty Q would lighten the load greatly.
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06-30-2013, 07:20 AM   #12
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Bayer filter however is not that easy to remove i believe so they need to make them like that in the sensor factory.
06-30-2013, 07:59 PM   #13
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Monochrome Q would be a waste of time and resources, IMHO. The sensor is just too small and camera designed for a wholly different kind of audience to be bothered with. I'll explain why below.

But a monochrome version of the GR, or a full-frame camera with a monochrome sensor, it's only a slightly different story. Even with those, I'm still not sure whether the current 16MP APS-C sensor makes sense for the monochrome version. 24MP version, perhaps, because 24MP is quite sufficient to match the well-scaned 35mm film. 16MP still isn't enough.

Firstly, such camera can be a much cheaper alternative than Leica Monochrom and those who dreamt about Leica can have that new camera. So price must be a differentiator.

Secondly, the camera MUST be styled retro in some way, most likely, to complete the feeling. Or, it must be artfully designed, because BW photography has always had artistic and emotional distinction about it.

And then, do excellent Tri-X, TMax 3200, Ilford Delta 3200, etc. emulation on the go. It must go above what's currently available, and set its purpose. If one can take a BW Tri-X -like shot in a camera, at high enough resolution (24 MP or thereabouts), and even push it up to 25000 ASA or even more (which means, shoot at speeds not native for those films, but still retain their original low ASA film look), then we're talking about something that may have some sense and merit.

Q sensor can't do that. But a full-frame sensor can, and APS-C sensor at 24MP, maybe.

Last edited by Uluru; 06-30-2013 at 11:41 PM.
07-04-2013, 04:13 PM   #14
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I'd buy one, but only if it had in body colour filters it could move in front of the sensor. Which is probably quite hard to do. Without colour filters BW kind of sucks, and filters in front of the lens are too inconvenent for how I use the Q.

But bayer filters suck too, especially on tiny sensors, since they take away so much of the sensitivity. (Just like colour filters, except if you wanted say red you only get a quarter of the pixels on a bayer sensors, so it's still two stops worse (or so) than the BW version would be.)
07-04-2013, 04:35 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by drougge Quote
I'd buy one, but only if it had in body colour filters it could move in front of the sensor. Which is probably quite hard to do. Without colour filters BW kind of sucks, and filters in front of the lens are too inconvenent for how I use the Q...
A wheel, like one we have on the Q, placed at the front of the camera, to assign different functions to it, including, say, 5 different filters for BW photography. Yellow, Orange, Red, Green, Blue filters, for example.
Because the sensor is colour insensitive, an extra small 1/2.3" sensor placed above the mount (something like the IR port, but with clear optical glass), facing forward, registers colour (apart from being able to take snaps like an iPhone too) and sends info to the camera how to behave in colour filters mode.
Beats Leica Monochrom by a mile!
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