Blurry images at certain shutter speeds?

Kirill_est · 07-23-2014, 11:31 AM

Couple of years ago I used the first Q with several lenses, but not the zooms. I have now purchased Q10 with the 5-15mm zoom and am generally pleased with it but I have noticed that I am often getting blurry images at 15mm at around the 1/800 second shutter speed. IS is switched off because I have a steady hand and am getting tack sharp images at 15mm as low as 1/100 second. All the more strange this 1/800 stumbling block. I know from personal experience that in the m4/3 system Olympus bodies suffer from shutter shock at around 1/100 second and irrespective of focal length, but in the Q case the shutter is so tiny and light and built into the lens, not the body, and no issues at the wide end where the lens barrel actually extends more. Has anyone had this problem? Furthermore, am I also to expect shutter shock from the tele zoom lens that I want to buy?

VisualDarkness · 07-23-2014, 12:30 PM

Can it be some kind of electronic shutter thingy? I can't remember.

Kirill_est · 07-23-2014, 12:56 PM

The electronic shutter is not implemented at such shutter speeds?

VisualDarkness · 07-23-2014, 01:20 PM

You're right 1/2000s is the limit where it kicks in.

Kirill_est · 07-24-2014, 12:52 AM

This is what I am consistently getting at 1/800:
View image: IMGP0166

Same scene with ND filter activated to reduce shutter speed:
View image: IMGP0167

VisualDarkness · 07-24-2014, 03:42 AM

Leaf shutters shouldn't be affected by diffraction from high speeds right?

Kirill_est · 07-24-2014, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by VisualDarkness

Leaf shutters shouldn't be affected by diffraction from high speeds right?

Dunno, all I know is what I am seeing and what I am seeing is weird. If anything, the image with the ND filter activated should be the blurrier one, not vice versa, because this is what occured with the 8.5mm prime on the Q I was using two years ago: ever so slight decrease in sharpness due to the ND filter activation. Perfectly understandable as an additional layer of glass (or plastic?) is introduced to the optical path, no complains there.
But the exact opposite happening in this situation, the ND filter image being clearly sharper, only reinforces the blurriness issue at around 1/800 sec.

Last edited by Kirill_est; 07-24-2014 at 05:52 AM.

VisualDarkness · 07-24-2014, 07:31 AM

You should send this to Pentax/Ricoh, it confuses me big time.

CWRailman · 08-01-2014, 06:49 AM

I zoomed in on a stable object, the chimney on top of the structure, and to these ole eyes they both seem about the same to me. What you perceive as a difference may just be the additional contrast induced by the ND filter being applied especially to the foliage or an increase in noise reduction applied to compensate for the faster shutter speed. Suggest you do a test on something that cannot be affected by wind conditions and at a closer focal range and do not use the ND filter to drop your shutter speed. Shut off noise reduction. I would also use the spot meter, not the pattern metering method and manual focus to eliminate any irregularities in focusing. Was the camera mounted on a tripod?

You may also consider changing your aspect ratio to 4:3 so you utilize the entire sensor. As currently set for the 3:2 aspect, you are getting 10MP instead of 12MP which is achieved at the 4:3 setting. I do not know if that will make any difference.

Denny

Kirill_est · 08-01-2014, 03:53 PM

Denny, over the few days I used the camera I accumulated many 1/800s images at the long end of the zoom and they are all blurry, blurrier than same things shot at much lower shutter speeds, with or without the ND filter. I only applied the filter to shoot exactly the same scene at the same moment in time as a convenient example. If the camera were not malfunctioning, the image with the filter applied would not have looked better. ND filters never make images look better, even quality ones, and the built-in one in this case is actually quite mediocre. Try shooting pairs of images using this kit zoom with and without the filter and see for yourself.

Now the shop in my country has failed to address the issue and they shipped the camera to a Pentax repair facility in another country so I am still waiting for their reaction and they might come back with something you have tried to say here (user error/we don't see anything), but I have been dealing with different digital cameras and lenses for over a decade and I clearly see when something is wrong like this. I hope they have the good grace to either repair or exchange the camera without starting an argument they cannot win.

I am still interested to know if this is a freak defect or something more widespread, like the shutter shock around 1/100s in (older) Olympus m4/3 cameras. But I don't think the Pentax dealership will tell me that

Kirill_est · 08-29-2014, 04:23 PM

Well the good news is that I eventually got refunded. I got also told that they compared it with another unit and they both displayed this shutter speed quirk. They were keen to stress that is not supposed to be a bug, but a just a natural limitation for a small camera like this, which I find strange. Perhaps it was a bad batch but I won't be trying to find a good one for now, too much hassle.

07-23-2014, 11:31 AM	#1
Kirill_est Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tallinn Posts: 110	Blurry images at certain shutter speeds? Couple of years ago I used the first Q with several lenses, but not the zooms. I have now purchased Q10 with the 5-15mm zoom and am generally pleased with it but I have noticed that I am often getting blurry images at 15mm at around the 1/800 second shutter speed. IS is switched off because I have a steady hand and am getting tack sharp images at 15mm as low as 1/100 second. All the more strange this 1/800 stumbling block. I know from personal experience that in the m4/3 system Olympus bodies suffer from shutter shock at around 1/100 second and irrespective of focal length, but in the Q case the shutter is so tiny and light and built into the lens, not the body, and no issues at the wide end where the lens barrel actually extends more. Has anyone had this problem? Furthermore, am I also to expect shutter shock from the tele zoom lens that I want to buy?

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07-23-2014, 12:30 PM	#2
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Can it be some kind of electronic shutter thingy? I can't remember.

07-23-2014, 12:56 PM	#3
Kirill_est Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tallinn Posts: 110 Original Poster	The electronic shutter is not implemented at such shutter speeds?

07-23-2014, 01:20 PM	#4
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	You're right 1/2000s is the limit where it kicks in.

07-24-2014, 12:52 AM	#5
Kirill_est Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tallinn Posts: 110 Original Poster	This is what I am consistently getting at 1/800: View image: IMGP0166 Same scene with ND filter activated to reduce shutter speed: View image: IMGP0167

07-24-2014, 03:42 AM	#6
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Leaf shutters shouldn't be affected by diffraction from high speeds right?

07-24-2014, 05:43 AM	#7
Kirill_est Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tallinn Posts: 110 Original Poster	Originally posted by VisualDarkness Leaf shutters shouldn't be affected by diffraction from high speeds right? Dunno, all I know is what I am seeing and what I am seeing is weird. If anything, the image with the ND filter activated should be the blurrier one, not vice versa, because this is what occured with the 8.5mm prime on the Q I was using two years ago: ever so slight decrease in sharpness due to the ND filter activation. Perfectly understandable as an additional layer of glass (or plastic?) is introduced to the optical path, no complains there. But the exact opposite happening in this situation, the ND filter image being clearly sharper, only reinforces the blurriness issue at around 1/800 sec. Last edited by Kirill_est; 07-24-2014 at 05:52 AM.

07-24-2014, 07:31 AM	#8
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	You should send this to Pentax/Ricoh, it confuses me big time.

08-01-2014, 06:49 AM	#9
CWRailman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona Photos: Albums Posts: 510	I zoomed in on a stable object, the chimney on top of the structure, and to these ole eyes they both seem about the same to me. What you perceive as a difference may just be the additional contrast induced by the ND filter being applied especially to the foliage or an increase in noise reduction applied to compensate for the faster shutter speed. Suggest you do a test on something that cannot be affected by wind conditions and at a closer focal range and do not use the ND filter to drop your shutter speed. Shut off noise reduction. I would also use the spot meter, not the pattern metering method and manual focus to eliminate any irregularities in focusing. Was the camera mounted on a tripod? You may also consider changing your aspect ratio to 4:3 so you utilize the entire sensor. As currently set for the 3:2 aspect, you are getting 10MP instead of 12MP which is achieved at the 4:3 setting. I do not know if that will make any difference. Denny

08-01-2014, 03:53 PM	#10
Kirill_est Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tallinn Posts: 110 Original Poster	Denny, over the few days I used the camera I accumulated many 1/800s images at the long end of the zoom and they are all blurry, blurrier than same things shot at much lower shutter speeds, with or without the ND filter. I only applied the filter to shoot exactly the same scene at the same moment in time as a convenient example. If the camera were not malfunctioning, the image with the filter applied would not have looked better. ND filters never make images look better, even quality ones, and the built-in one in this case is actually quite mediocre. Try shooting pairs of images using this kit zoom with and without the filter and see for yourself. Now the shop in my country has failed to address the issue and they shipped the camera to a Pentax repair facility in another country so I am still waiting for their reaction and they might come back with something you have tried to say here (user error/we don't see anything), but I have been dealing with different digital cameras and lenses for over a decade and I clearly see when something is wrong like this. I hope they have the good grace to either repair or exchange the camera without starting an argument they cannot win. I am still interested to know if this is a freak defect or something more widespread, like the shutter shock around 1/100s in (older) Olympus m4/3 cameras. But I don't think the Pentax dealership will tell me that

08-29-2014, 04:23 PM	#11
Kirill_est Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tallinn Posts: 110 Original Poster	Well the good news is that I eventually got refunded. I got also told that they compared it with another unit and they both displayed this shutter speed quirk. They were keen to stress that is not supposed to be a bug, but a just a natural limitation for a small camera like this, which I find strange. Perhaps it was a bad batch but I won't be trying to find a good one for now, too much hassle.