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12-10-2014, 07:45 PM   #1
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What can the Q10 do in RAW+?

Hi.

I'm trying to make the most of the physical buttons and dials of the Q10 but with mixed results.

(Where I write JPEG below, I'm referring to the mode in which only a .jpg, but no .dng, is saved.)

I thought I might be able to use the quick dial to alternate between user modes, but user modes seem to be JPEG-mode exclusive (which for me is a deal breaker), and for the life of me I can't see why any of the settings in the camera must force JPEG-mode, all the more since there always seems to be an option to manually save the .dng for the last picture, even ones that require more than one exposure. Is there something I'm missing, some config that slipped by?

In all, the most useful thing I think I can do with the quick dial is to change the 'custom image' setting. And that brings me to another thing. Like many, I sometimes like 'bold monochrome'. But that, again, forces JPEG-mode, unless I'm missing something. Does anyone know if the normal monochrome can be adjusted to look like the bold? I've tried no filters, max contrast and sharpness, but whatever I do with 'key' doesn't seem to cut it. What's worse, I seem to recall a different monochrome options menu, with less options, but can't find it (maybe I'm confusing the Q10 with another Pentax).

Thanks for your input!


Last edited by Antonio Marques; 12-12-2014 at 07:09 AM. Reason: tidying up
12-11-2014, 03:23 AM   #2
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RAW is RAW. You can't have effects/filters etc with RAW.
(This applies to every camera which saves as RAW)
12-11-2014, 03:28 AM   #3
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That is not what I'm talking about, Steve. RAW+ and JPEG above refer to the shooting modes (what files get saved), not the actual files. Of course I don't want the filters and effects and what not to be in the RAW. Nor color mode, white balance or anything else that refers to the developing. I want those in the .jpeg while keeping the .dng alongside, as is always possible anyway but with the no-go that you have to save the .dng manually if you're applying a 'digital filter' or 'smart effect' to the .jpeg (I can't figure out why) or if you're in a 'user mode' (even more puzzling: how many users have the motivation to define their own user modes and then are happy to shoot JPEG?).

Last edited by Antonio Marques; 12-11-2014 at 03:37 AM.
12-11-2014, 02:59 PM   #4
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Sorry about that, I misunderstood. Though tbh, I'm still having trouble following you

12-11-2014, 03:57 PM   #5
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Steve, no matter what else is set, the camera takes the picture in a RAW form. If you only ask for a JPG result, it formats the RAW file as you specify (or by a default setting) and "throws away" the Raw file. If you select RAW + JPG, or key it after you shoot 'cause you think it'll make you a $$$$$, then it saves both files.

Think of a RAW file as a negative. Once shot and save/'developed' you can't change it -- unless you make another format from it. (Then it's sort'a like manipulating a negative while printing it.) Then the RAW file's saved unchanged in the original binary form awaiting the next instructions.

Even if you shoot in RAW only, what you see is a default JPG manipulated with your JPG instructions if set or by a default 'thumbnail for viewing' compromise. If you ask for RAW + JPG-only then you can see an image manipulated to your specific instructions.

In short, any attempt to 'change' a RAW image results in a JPG adjustment of some sort or another as set in the camera.

No matter what you do, you'll never see a RAW file as an image - even in the camera LCD screen, adjusted or not -- RAW's a binary file awaiting your instructions for viewing.

Last edited by pacerr; 12-11-2014 at 04:07 PM.
12-11-2014, 06:14 PM   #6
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I am fully aware of what RAW is having used it since 2004.
(You might have seen Post#2)
I just can't follow the OP's writing style.
12-11-2014, 06:54 PM   #7
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I'll try to write it differently, it didn't occur to me that I was being difficult to follow. So, in the form of questions:

- Does anyone know of a way to have the 'user modes' in RAW+ ?

- Does anyone have an idea why while in RAW+ one can't use 'smart effects' nor 'digital filters' ?

- Does anyone have a way to mimic 'bold monochrome' using the settings available in RAW+ mode?

Thanks!
12-11-2014, 07:46 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Antonio Marques Quote
I'll try to write it differently, it didn't occur to me that I was being difficult to follow. So, in the form of questions:

- Does anyone know of a way to have the 'user modes' in RAW+ ?
If they work in jpg format they work in RAW plus . Just make sure you are lookin at the correct file.
When it shoots in RAW plus it saves two files. One. Jpg and one in DNG.
- Does anyone have an idea why while in RAW+ one can't use 'smart effects' nor 'digital filters' ?

- Does anyone have a way to mimic 'bold monochrome' using the settings available in RAW+ mode?

Thanks!
See my answer above. The same answer applies to all these questions.

12-11-2014, 07:54 PM   #9
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Hi, Denny. Where is your answer above?

---------- Post added 12-12-14 at 02:59 AM ----------

Sorry, I now see you had inserted a reply inside the quote. But I don't get it. When in JPEG mode, the Q10 doesn't save the .dng (unless you do it manually before taking the next picture), that's why it's JPEG mode. Am I missing something?
12-12-2014, 11:51 AM   #10
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I have the same problems as the OP. Both with the camera (original Q though), and that Americans (mostly) rarely understand if I write what I consider to be clear and detailed prose describing a problem. So, I'll try to restate the problem in really short form instead:

The effect modes disable writing RAW files. (Or alternatively: They force JPEG-only mode.)

That's it. That's the complaint. The rest is related questions and failed workarounds. I'm pretty sure it's just something we'll have to live with unfortunately.

Antonio: I use the quick dial for aspect ratio, as that at least still gives me a RAW.
12-12-2014, 04:19 PM   #11
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OK, thanks for the clearer explanation.
I see your problem but I don't get why it is one. If you want the effects or User mode why do you want a RAW file [without the effects] as well?
Surely sticking to shooting RAW and applying [any] effect in post is more flexible and superior to anything built-in?
12-12-2014, 04:32 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
OK, thanks for the clearer explanation.
I see your problem but I don't get why it is one. If you want the effects or User mode why do you want a RAW file [without the effects] as well?
Surely sticking to shooting RAW and applying [any] effect in post is more flexible and superior to anything built-in?
With my current Canon Rebel, I often create a jpg file even when I create a raw file, because I want the option to choose one or the other later (I don't want creating the raw file to force me to actually do something with it)
12-12-2014, 05:14 PM   #13
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Drougge, thanks for your take. In these matters it's always nice to have the reply of someone who's been thru the issue before.

Steve, as to the effects, what you say makes some sense, but I'll point out that from that perspective then the colour type (portrait, landscape, vibrant, monochrome, not to mention cross-processing) would be spurious as well in RAW+.
For me, the .dng is like a negative and the .jpg is like a polaroid preview. While shooting I try to get .jpgs I like, but at the same time I want to keep the original data in case I want to do something more with it. And when not using effects, the point of the .jpg is to remind one later on, while developing the .dng, how it was supposed to look like.

As to the user modes, they're supposed to be shooting preferences one can quickly recall. It's quite useful and should have nothing to do with JPEG vs RAW+. However, it seems they were that only in the original Q, while on the Q10 they are more limited in what settings are saved.

The weird part is that I see no reason, technical or otherwise, for the limitation.
12-12-2014, 11:46 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Antonio Marques Quote
I'll try to write it differently, it didn't occur to me that I was being difficult to follow. So, in the form of questions:

- Does anyone know of a way to have the 'user modes' in RAW+ ?

- Does anyone have an idea why while in RAW+ one can't use 'smart effects' nor 'digital filters' ?

- Does anyone have a way to mimic 'bold monochrome' using the settings available in RAW+ mode?

Thanks!
The Q7 lets you record a raw and a jpg w/ the effects. I use this all the time, but in lightroom when I do the import, I have to separate the jpgs f/ the raws in a different folder otherwise LR sees both files with the same file name and only displays the dng. Other than that, it's pretty straight forward. The original Q did the same thing as your Q10 ....
12-13-2014, 09:44 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Antonio Marques Quote
Hi.

I'm trying to make the most of the physical buttons and dials of the Q10 but with mixed results.

(Where I write JPEG below, I'm referring to the mode in which only a .jpg, but no .dng, is saved.)

I thought I might be able to use the quick dial to alternate between user modes, but user modes seem to be JPEG-mode exclusive (which for me is a deal breaker), and for the life of me I can't see why any of the settings in the camera must force JPEG-mode, all the more since there always seems to be an option to manually save the .dng for the last picture, even ones that require more than one exposure. Is there something I'm missing, some config that slipped by?

In all, the most useful thing I think I can do with the quick dial is to change the 'custom image' setting. And that brings me to another thing. Like many, I sometimes like 'bold monochrome'. But that, again, forces JPEG-mode, unless I'm missing something. Does anyone know if the normal monochrome can be adjusted to look like the bold? I've tried no filters, max contrast and sharpness, but whatever I do with 'key' doesn't seem to cut it. What's worse, I seem to recall a different monochrome options menu, with less options, but can't find it (maybe I'm confusing the Q10 with another Pentax).

Thanks for your input!
Hi Antonio,

I had the same problem with my Q. I like to shoot RAW+ B&W -- seeing the JPEGs on the screen helps me review what I'm doing; though I process keepers later in PhotoShop from the RAW files. I got a Q7 last summer, and this is now fixed. I shoot RAW+ B&W all the time. You might want to check your firmware version; Pentax has a way of filtering upgrades to older Q models. Not sure if its happened with this feature.

Cjf
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