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04-18-2015, 07:55 AM   #1
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New sensors for the Q

I've been wondering for a while what sensors could be used for a next generation Q model. This site would seem to answer the question.

There are 16 and 20 megapixel models that could be used.

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04-18-2015, 08:11 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I've been wondering for a while what sensors could be used for a next generation Q model. This site would seem to answer the question.

There are 16 and 20 megapixel models that could be used.

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I sincerely hope they don't go beyond 12MP. Even the Q7 has issues with noise and especially bleeding. The existing optics won't resolve much more anyways.
04-18-2015, 08:13 AM   #3
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I love my Q but 16 or 20 mps would be nice. What I would like more is little red icon or a beep to let you know you are in focus when using a manual focus lens. It would be a lot easier to focus my 200M lens without some kind of help.
04-18-2015, 08:16 AM   #4
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I would love an upgrade to 16 MP because I regularly crop the 4:3 native image to 3:2. A little extra resolution wouldn't hurt assuming that the raw DNG file isn't cluttered with sensor noise.

04-18-2015, 08:19 AM   #5
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You'll need new expensive lenses to take advantage of a 16 or 20 mp 1/1.7" sensor and very good light condition. You wont get anything more with the K adapter (and my lenses at least). Why doing that to the Q system ?
04-18-2015, 08:47 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by romay Quote
I sincerely hope they don't go beyond 12MP. Even the Q7 has issues with noise and especially bleeding. The existing optics won't resolve much more anyways.
I can see your concern, but consider that the 12mp APS-C sensor in the K-x was eventually superseded by the 16mp sensor of the the K-5, with no real detriment to the image quality. I agree about the current lenses being a limiting factor.

The important thing is that Ricoh now has an upgrade path for the Q. That wasn't clear to me before today.
04-18-2015, 09:56 AM   #7
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Nothing to be gained by adding MP. In fact less noise and better IQ would be achieved if they dropped down to 10MP with the same sensor size. But there are those who cannot get it out of their head that more MP equals better image so………

Size Matters, Especially with Pixels | Reed Hoffmann
04-18-2015, 10:12 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
Nothing to be gained by adding MP. In fact less noise and better IQ would be achieved if they dropped down to 10MP with the same sensor size. But there are those who cannot get it out of their head that more MP equals better image so………

Size Matters, Especially with Pixels | Reed Hoffmann
Well, that's not really true. The main problem is "dead area" between the pixels, not the pixels themselves. Sensors like the one in A7s is using a different design to minimize the walls between the wells, that is why it works better with wideangles too.

04-18-2015, 10:12 AM   #9
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I agree that given a certain state of technology a sensor with larger photo sites (i.e. less megapixels) will yield an image with less noise. Technology moves forward and with that will come advances in noise reduction and dynamic range expansion. Just as APS sensors increased from 6 to 12 to 14 to 16 to 24 and beyond MP with better electrical properties so must small sensors. I welcome that advancement and anticipate it. The Q will go up in resolution. It's just a matter of when. I think the supply chain issues have been a big constraint. There simply aren't a lot of 1/1.7" sensors to choose from in the market and those that do exist have been sitting stagnant technologically. All the money and effort has been poured into APS and FF sensors since that's where the money's at.

Let's see small sensors advance forward to the point where larger sensors are rendered obsolete!

Ok, maybe that's a bit too far out there... but that's what camera phones did to the P&S market.
04-18-2015, 10:36 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
Nothing to be gained by adding MP. In fact less noise and better IQ would be achieved if they dropped down to 10MP
Just by looking at the difference on the screen between the 12mp 1/2.3 sensor on my Q and the 10mp 1/1.7 sensor on my little Canon S95 the 10mp Canon sensor, to my eye, obviously out performs the Q sensor files.

Last edited by wildman; 04-18-2015 at 10:48 AM.
04-18-2015, 10:53 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
Just by looking at the difference on the screen between the 12mp 1/2.3 sensor on my Q and the 10mp 1/1.7 sensor on my little Canon S95 the 10mp Canon sensor, to my eye, obviously out performs the Q sensor files.
The Canon got a bigger sensor so that's not surprising. It got more photon registering surface area, it's not about the MP.
04-18-2015, 01:32 PM   #12
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I think you can't compare APS-C to the Q.
With the current 12MP 1/1.7 sensor, even the best PQ lenses start to be diffraction limited from f2.8 on, where as a 16MP APS-C is diffraction limited around f8.
Increasing the Q's resolutoin further is pointless as there wouldn't be any additional information in those pixels.
I would even say it's better to downgrade to 10MP. Use a sensor with fewer MP and increased quantum efficiency, bring back the magnesium alloy as we had in the original Q, give it a (removable) EVF and a sensor with PDAF and you can call it a camera.

Yeah, and we need a F0.95 for the Q. I currently use the Schneider 17mm, 25mm and 50mm f0.95 with an adapter.
Those lenses are cheap, not overly big and IQ is good enough for 12MP. I don't see why ricoh couldn't license them.
Same with those old pentax CCTV lenses. The pentax C30823KP are great hi-res lenses. Why don't they just release them in Q-Mount?
04-18-2015, 01:38 PM   #13
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I agree that a new sensor is far down on my list too. At the same time if they allow that area to slip, they could soon find themselves lagging far behind the competition in an important section.
04-18-2015, 03:53 PM   #14
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So many of us seemed to instinctively use the Q - particularly the original - for monochrome. Id like to see that line of thought further developed. Give us not more pixels, but more midtone subtleties perhaps.
04-18-2015, 05:22 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by romay Quote
I think you can't compare APS-C to the Q.
With the current 12MP 1/1.7 sensor, even the best PQ lenses start to be diffraction limited from f2.8 on, where as a 16MP APS-C is diffraction limited around f8.
Increasing the Q's resolutoin further is pointless as there wouldn't be any additional information in those pixels.
I would even say it's better to downgrade to 10MP. Use a sensor with fewer MP and increased quantum efficiency, bring back the magnesium alloy as we had in the original Q, give it a (removable) EVF and a sensor with PDAF and you can call it a camera.

Yeah, and we need a F0.95 for the Q. I currently use the Schneider 17mm, 25mm and 50mm f0.95 with an adapter.
Those lenses are cheap, not overly big and IQ is good enough for 12MP. I don't see why ricoh couldn't license them.
Same with those old pentax CCTV lenses. The pentax C30823KP are great hi-res lenses. Why don't they just release them in Q-Mount?
Totally agree on the diffraction you mentioned, @romay. That is why I shoot at one aperture click down from wide open for top sharpness. Lens tests on photozone.de confirm this performance. I have the 01 prime set to f/2.2, the 02 zoom to wide open across the range, and the 06 set to f/3.2. If you can get perfect focus then your images will be very, very sharp. Here's a 100% crop of my younger son's eyes taken with a Q7 and the 06 lens.



That amount of detail tells me that the system could handle a higher MP count, especially with higher quality lenses - which adds to your second point, @romay. I would love to see a faster zoom and additional fast primes. Give me a WA 4mm or 5mm prime at f/1.2 and a 18mm f/1.8 prime. I'll buy one of each to compliment my 01 prime.
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