Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-15-2015, 01:01 PM   #16
Loyal Site Supporter
UncleVanya's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 9,535
K1000 is not the answer for most. The AE-1, the FE, the ME/ME Super, these were the cameras used by similar people standing by the canyon many years ago. The one's looking perplexed clearly want more than the basic AUTO but don't understand their camera and/or exposure enough to navigate the menus and get the results desired. The iPhone default camera app is a poor example since with it you are locked into a very limited experience. BUT that experience has been refined by a lot of users feedback over time and it gets it "close enough" most of the time. Real enthusiasts load things like the 645 app which gives a load more settings (and an auto setting for those times when you don't have the time to recall all the widgets and adjust things "just right").

Honestly this is why when asked I recommend the K50 over the K3 for new photographers. The K3 is much better overall - there is little reason not to get it. But it lacks the SCN modes and that's a deal breaker. The SCN modes are an excellent way to provide users an option to get the photograph when they don't really understand all the nuances of how. This can be because they don't know how to manipulate the camera to get the exposure desired or because they don't understand exposure enough to pick the right exposure. In any case over time they can look at EXIF and study controls and exposure more to get to the point of being able to do this without the SCN modes. But when they step into a difficult scene - rather than swearing under their breath and blaming the camera - they can switch to a SCN mode that works reasonably well and take the shot. The KS1 and KS2 also offer some of this but my lack of direct experience with these makes it harder for me to know if they should be recommended over the K50 to newbie's - likely I think.

The lack of simple uploading to Facebook, Twitter, Instagram from many DSLR's is another frustration for modern users that people of yesteryear didn't have to face. The KS1/KS2 help here but honestly I think cameras like these should have direct tagging enabled and a simple upload client that would let you tag photos with metadata and automatically upload to dropbox/facebook/twitter/etc as soon as wifi is available.

06-15-2015, 02:18 PM   #17
Loyal Site Supporter
pacerr's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Henry, TN
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,850
It interests me that to use the Scene modes intelligently, one must know what differences are involved and WHY they matter. When the situation is 'standard' to the Scene mode selected it's normally what a knowledgeable photographer would select for that occasion.

If you're willing to follow signs to get to where you want to go, the Scene modes work most of the time. But if you don't know where you're goin' the signs don't help.

My opinion is that most folks would be better advised to simply use P-mode or the Green Bar if they don't understand the choices made for them in the Scene modes. And I've found VERY few folks that can explain what differentiates the Scene modes- hint: RTFM.

Argue the exposure choices there if you wish, but at least understand them. I've no argument with 'em, I just can't be bothered to select one or to remember which menu choice would work for me at the time -- it's just easier to DIY.

I HAVE had success suggesting folks 'study' the Scene mode adjustments as a learning step toward understanding exposure choices.
06-15-2015, 02:26 PM   #18
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 3,016
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
...A lot of the posters here are really smart guys... and from time to time they have trouble with settings and getting what they want. How's the average joe supposed to deal with that?
I can relate. My photography eye needs more practice but my technology skills are excellent, yet I lost too much time last Saturday fighting with my K-5. All I wanted to do was use catch focus with an A-mode 135/2.8. The shutter kept releasing regardless of focus. Metal mount on lens: check. Catch focus enabled: check. AF only on center point: check. Does AF.S or AF.C matter? Wasted time trying both.

Then I remembered something about catch focus not working with the rear AF button. It took 10 minutes to find how to enable the half shutter press. I kept carefully reading every line on the custom function screens but, no, it's buried under the button customization line on a different screen.

Very frustrating. At the very least, when a user goes to the catch focus setting there should be some type of reminder about all the other settings that are required for that setting to work. At best, there are countless ways to make it better. And the K-5 has a good interface compared to some other manufacturers.

In-camera HDR is another pet peeve. I use the function maybe 2 days per year, and each time I have to remember to switch from DNG to JPG before the HDR icon can be selected. Keep the damn HDR button selectable all the time, and when I turn on HDR mode give me a prompt like "HDR requires JPG. Do you want to automatically change to JPG now?"

/rant over

Last edited by DeadJohn; 06-15-2015 at 02:33 PM.
06-15-2015, 02:26 PM   #19
Loyal Site Supporter
pacerr's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Henry, TN
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,850
QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
I still have two 100ft rolls of Plus X
And the bulk loader too I hope!

06-15-2015, 02:56 PM   #20
Site Supporter
GeneV's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Albuquerque NM
Photos: Albums
Posts: 9,762
QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
K1000 is not the answer for most. The AE-1, the FE, the ME/ME Super, these were the cameras used by similar people standing by the canyon many years ago. The one's looking perplexed clearly want more than the basic AUTO but don't understand their camera and/or exposure enough to navigate the menus and get the results desired. The iPhone default camera app is a poor example since with it you are locked into a very limited experience. BUT that experience has been refined by a lot of users feedback over time and it gets it "close enough" most of the time. Real enthusiasts load things like the 645 app which gives a load more settings (and an auto setting for those times when you don't have the time to recall all the widgets and adjust things "just right").

Honestly this is why when asked I recommend the K50 over the K3 for new photographers. The K3 is much better overall - there is little reason not to get it. But it lacks the SCN modes and that's a deal breaker. The SCN modes are an excellent way to provide users an option to get the photograph when they don't really understand all the nuances of how. This can be because they don't know how to manipulate the camera to get the exposure desired or because they don't understand exposure enough to pick the right exposure. In any case over time they can look at EXIF and study controls and exposure more to get to the point of being able to do this without the SCN modes. But when they step into a difficult scene - rather than swearing under their breath and blaming the camera - they can switch to a SCN mode that works reasonably well and take the shot. The KS1 and KS2 also offer some of this but my lack of direct experience with these makes it harder for me to know if they should be recommended over the K50 to newbie's - likely I think.

The lack of simple uploading to Facebook, Twitter, Instagram from many DSLR's is another frustration for modern users that people of yesteryear didn't have to face. The KS1/KS2 help here but honestly I think cameras like these should have direct tagging enabled and a simple upload client that would let you tag photos with metadata and automatically upload to dropbox/facebook/twitter/etc as soon as wifi is available.
Agreed. I've never gotten really friendly with the green mode on Pentax DSLRs, but some of the other full auto modes such as the Lumix LX7 and the Sony A6000 really do produce results which are both easy and very high quality. My wife uses the latter two cameras, and she rarely goes to the scenes.
06-15-2015, 03:01 PM   #21
Site Supporter
CWRailman's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Photos: Albums
Posts: 495
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by pacerr Quote
And the bulk loader too I hope!
Yes, three of them as well as over 50 reloadable cartridges. Know anybody interested in buying this stuff?
06-15-2015, 03:07 PM   #22
Site Supporter
Biro's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,159
QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Most non-photographers I knew did not want to focus, let alone adjust exposure.
Truer words were never written. Most can't even be bothered holding the camera in place long enough for the shutter to complete its cycle - nor even holding the camera level for a few seconds.
06-15-2015, 03:16 PM   #23
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,215
QuoteOriginally posted by K(s)evin Quote
Okay. So 39 years ago.
Yeah...that was sort of rude of me I did not mean to sound so mean or put anyone down. Mea Culpa

Steve

06-15-2015, 04:14 PM   #24
Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,732
QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
And the K-5 has a good interface compared to some other manufacturers.

In-camera HDR is another pet peeve. I use the function maybe 2 days per year, and each time I have to remember to switch from DNG to JPG before the HDR icon can be selected. Keep the damn HDR button selectable all the time, and when I turn on HDR mode give me a prompt like "HDR requires JPG. Do you want to automatically change to JPG now?"
Most of the time I have my Q-7 set to RAW+, but unlike those who depend on RAW, I use HDR on my Q-7 on those occasions when I think the situation is going to overwhelm its dynamic range. Fairly quickly I became accustomed to the Q-7 controls - normally I have HDR as the normal SCN mode, so all I have to do is twist the knob to SCN, and the camera briefly tells me that I'm in HDR; it doesn't tell me that it has completely over-ridden my selections for ISO and for file type (that it has gone from RAW+ to JPG). I guess I would prefer that it actually tell me those things, but I've become accustomed to that's being the way it does things. My new K-30 works more like your K-5; HDR (as opposed to nighttime HDR) is not an SCN option, and I have to make HDR "comfortable", by my switching RAW off for example, before it will deign to help me. Personally, I like the Q-7 scheme better, although from the manual, it appears that I could get the same effect by defining a standard HDR configuration as USER1.
06-15-2015, 05:11 PM   #25
Site Supporter
arnold's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Queensland
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,195
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
When I pick up my K20D I'm lost for a while. I'm sorry, but from a user design perspective, that is simply inexcusable.
Since I enjoy using my manual film cameras a fair bit more than digital, when I pick up the K5 I have to study it a while to remember what settings I last used. Is it on Auto or manual focus, back button setup, type of metering, exposure compensation, AE button, ISO settings etc. It makes me wonder how I ever managed good results with a simple Retinette.
06-15-2015, 07:29 PM   #26
Site Supporter
CWRailman's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Photos: Albums
Posts: 495
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by arnold Quote
Since I enjoy using my manual film cameras a fair bit more than digital, when I pick up the K5 I have to study it a while to remember what settings I last used. Is it on Auto or manual focus, back button setup, type of metering, exposure compensation, AE button, ISO settings etc. It makes me wonder how I ever managed good results with a simple Retinette.
For a similar reason, when I have to quickly involve a camera into my activities I pass up my K-5 of K-5IIs and pick up my K-110. While I do employ it's auto focus, it is the closest camera I have to the old simple Pentax MX that I used for many years. I would love to see something like the K-100, K-110 series with the current 16mp sensor and body only street price around $275.
06-15-2015, 07:53 PM   #27
Site Supporter
boriscleto's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Liverpool, NY
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 12,299
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
[S]End Edit That being said, half the non-photographers in my immediate family owned one in 1985. The allure was simplicity, relative ease of use, a decent normal lens, and relatively low price. Oh...and the photos were so much better than they were able to get with the simpler consumer cameras of the day.
This is the market for the Canon Rebel..."Oh, you have the camera that takes the good pictures". (Reversed lens hood and never taken out of green mode)
06-15-2015, 08:40 PM   #28
Site Supporter
6BQ5's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Nevada, USA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,064
QuoteOriginally posted by cwrailman Quote
for a similar reason, when i have to quickly involve a camera into my activities i pass up my k-5 of k-5iis and pick up my k-110. While i do employ it's auto focus, it is the closest camera i have to the old simple pentax mx that i used for many years. I would love to see something like the k-100, k-110 series with the current 16mp sensor and body only street price around $275.
k-50 = $277.
06-15-2015, 09:38 PM   #29
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,215
QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
k-50 = $277.
You got it. Even though I own a K-3, I am so tempted to get me one of those...


Steve
06-15-2015, 09:48 PM   #30
Site Supporter
CWRailman's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Photos: Albums
Posts: 495
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
k-50 = $277
Good price but not too far in complexity from the K-5 series. Plus from my perspective it is missing the top information panel which I, for one, use quite extensively and almost exclusive during a shoot. That was one of the features I liked on my original *istDS.and all subsequent Pentax cameras I have owned. That top panel is as close as we can come to looking down at the camera and seeing the set shutter speed and F stop setting like we used to see on film cameras like the XM or K1000. (Information still available on the Leica M series) I'm thinking of a Pentax K-5 series style body with the simplicity in operation and menu selections of a Leica M or M9, or better yet like the top panel of a Nikon DF all for around $275. It would be the K-1000 of the modern era. Get rid of all those menus and bring back a simple camera but make it digital.

Last edited by CWRailman; 06-15-2015 at 10:26 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
blog, camera, mirrorless, mp, pentax, pentax q, pentax q10, pentax q7, photography, q-s1, q10, q7, technology, times
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why The Efficiency of The Free Market is a Myth jeffkrol General Talk 45 12-01-2012 08:56 PM
Forbes's myth of the Reagan boom boriscleto General Talk 2 10-07-2012 02:51 PM
The Myth of Japan's 'Lost Decades' jeffkrol General Talk 3 03-01-2011 10:40 AM
the myth of the self-made millionaire Nesster General Talk 24 09-28-2010 11:51 AM
The origin of the Garden of Eden myth Laurentiu Cristofor General Talk 44 04-12-2010 10:45 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:42 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top