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06-18-2015, 07:19 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Attended a Dewitt jones ( National Geographic photographrer) seminar years ago. He called the P setting "P for perfect". Used it about 80% of the time. Only switched modes when he knew camera wasn't going to do what he wanted.
I'm glad you told that, because that's exactly what I do. I leave it on P the great majority of the time, until I notice the camera doing something that doesn't look right to me. Then I adjust EV compensation or switch to Tv or Av or whatever seems needed.

Noticing when the ND filter is needed, and remembering to switch it in and out, is probably the main adjustment I've faced when using the Q7. The MX-1 had an "auto" setting for that, but this camera does not.

Also, sometimes when looking at an obviously high-contrast scene, I'll pop it over to SCN -- which I always have set on HDR mode -- and take another shot with that. Often it turns out the raw file was OK anyhow, though.

06-18-2015, 07:40 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by pacerr Quote
As I peruse this site, and this thread in particular, it occurs to me that there are two types pf “Pentaxians” – or photographers in general. Those intimately involved with the 'machine' and those involved in the results possible by using the machine. And most certainly this isn't intended as a purely black-or-white label but rather it includes situational shades of gray.
Based on your post and my personal experience, you .should have included a third type of user, those who simply enjoy their cameras. I am a minor collector of film gear and the common thread that runs through each camera and lens is that I truly enjoy using each of them. If they are not fun to use, I don't buy them in the first place. Paradoxically, the less sophisticated gear is often more fun. Go figure


Steve

(...would really like a Q, but too small for my hands...)
06-18-2015, 08:15 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
. . . leave it on P . . .
Back in "the daz" each roll of film came with a chart that was a verbal expression of 'P-mode' . . . call it Sunny Sixteen if you like.

If you study the graphic chart description of 'P-mode' (regardless of how the camera manual labeled it) you'll see that it's an attempt to provide the perfect exposure for a nominally perfect (18% gray card?) lighting condition using median aperture and shutter speed settings. That's followed by a suggestion that those settings might be swapped for reciprocal settings to achieve specific goals or adjusted for aesthetic effects.

I can't find a better description of the intent of P-mode, or the purpose of Scene and Filter modes. Auto-mode simply takes away all the situational options. The old Hyper Modes simply biased the nominal P-mode exposure line to favor either DOF or shutter speed and perhaps a few other settings as well (the P5/50 body is an early example of this).

Once you understand the intent of the P-mode program line, the Scene modes make a lot of sense. Right out of Basic Photography 101 lectures.

Those of us that learned to "change the program line" manually* on our Spotties likely find it more comfortable to follow the old habits than to try to remember all the new labels, options and buttons on modern bodies; not to mention that I can't read all those squiggles on the LCD screen or finger-fumble through the tiny dials and buttons.

* Probably best defined by that older population that memorized the multiplication tables in school . . . and can make change with our shoes on?

A good 'mid-term' test for today's PH 101 class would be to describe the conditions associated with each Scene Mode and correctly explain why and what changes are made to the nominal exposure and/or filter settings. It's also a fine review for those of us that swear we only use Manual Mode too. Grade your own paper to avoid embarrassment.
06-18-2015, 09:59 AM   #64
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I remember times when I have been out with the camera on manual, spending time adjusting aperture or shutter or both, trying to get what I felt was the exposure I wanted. Later, usually after I got home, it would suddenly dawn on me that I could have made my life far simpler just by using the "Perfect" mode and dialing in more or less light with the Exposure Compensation controls.

To be honest though, I do spend most of my time in either Aperture or Shutter Priority modes based on what I want to accomplish. It is so similar to how I work with my K1000 that it seems to come naturally with my digital cameras.


Last edited by Pioneer; 06-18-2015 at 10:00 AM. Reason: typo
06-18-2015, 10:02 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Paradoxically, the less sophisticated gear is often more fun. Go figure
I agree with you 100% and I think that is one of the points being made in the article I referred to in the first post "The Myth of More".
06-18-2015, 01:54 PM   #66
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Fuji XT-1 looks like an old film camera - shutter speed dial on the top, ISO on the top, Exposure compensation on the top. Very minimalistic. I wonder how well it will sell.
06-18-2015, 02:32 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I wonder how well it will sell.
Actually, it has been selling quite well. I contribute some of that to the fact that it is available in some of the big stores like Best Buy and both camera stores here in Phoenix had them in stock and on display which is something I have begged them to do with Pentax cameras. .
06-18-2015, 03:42 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Paradoxically, the less sophisticated gear is often more fun. Go figure
QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
I agree with you 100% and I think that is one of the points being made in the article I referred to in the first post "The Myth of More".
I have several old Pentax-M and Pentax-A lenses that I now use on occasion with my Q-7 and with my K-30. Both cameras make it easy for me to use those lenses - I set the camera to aperture priority using the knob on top, set the aperture using the aperture ring, focus using the focus ring, and take the picture. I also happen to enjoy using older "Auto" flashes more than newer P-TTL flashes.

That is great for you and me, but not so much for my parents nor for the bewildered tourists you started this thread with; they need just the opposite - a camera that does everything except press the shutter button. Those two groups (you/me on one hand and intentional amateurs on the other) are kind of co-mingled in this discussion, despite the fact that their needs are completely different. My Dad bought a fully manual 35mm rangefinder camera in 1960; he was an engineer by profession, but he hated it!! - I still remember the time in 1962 when he forgot to rewind the film before opening the back, and an entire roll of Black Hills pictures was ruined. Eventually he gave up and left the picture-taking to me ... until I left home and my mother bought a 110 camera because she thought that someone needed to be preserving memories; eventually she got a Canon AE-1, but I doubt if the dial on the camera ever left "Program" nor did the lens ever leave "A". A simple camera like the K-1000 (or the modern equivalent you've been pining for on the past few pages) would have been a terrible choice for them. A Q-7 or a K-50, with the dial never leaving "P" would have met their needs perfectly (he died two years ago at age 93; she is now 90, but has again ceded picture-taking duty to me).

06-18-2015, 07:45 PM   #69
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Stevebrot get a Q. Doesn't matter that you have big hands. The Q dances on your finger tips. Like using a pencil. It is so much fun.

In my last camera class, 3 of the 12 students didn't know their DSLRs had manual focus!
thanks
barondla
06-19-2015, 08:46 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Mentioning the people standing trying to sort out their settings things, has it ever occurred to camera Execs that the reason DSLR sales are falling, would be because the camera have become so complicated that the average person who take a few images up to 10 times a year, can't remember how to access the controls between the times when they pick up the camera[?]
I don't know. It seems like a lot of those people who pick up their camera ten times a year just have to remember to put the dial on the 'green' setting or, for the more adventurous ones, to put it on the "P" setting and then remember which dial is shutter speed and which is F stop, and how to change the ISO if need be.

Perhaps it's the more advanced users who would like more consistency between models. However, you also have to balance that with the addition of new features and all the people who will criticize the user interface for being outdated and hard to use if the manufacturer doesn't chase the newest UI trend.
06-19-2015, 02:54 PM   #71
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There is a definite movement within the photographic community away from the big size DSLR’s some of which when not being used for photography can double as battleship anchors. I see it on different message boards, forums and the dealers I have spoken with are seeing the same.

Apparently I am not the only one considering a smaller less weighty camera system to supplement my current Pentax systems. Here is a link to a thread on the Fuji board with former Canon owners noting why they converted to the Fuji X-T1.
Why I Dumped my Canon 5D Mk II and moved to the X-T1 - Page 2 - X-T1 and X-T10 - Fuji X Forum

Someone in this thread said I am not happy with my Pentax gear but nothing could be further from the truth. I am very pleased with my Pentax cameras for what they are. They are tools in my photographic tool box. But like my mechanics tool chest which has over 18 different screw drivers, many of which have different uses, and way to many wrenches to count, I try and match each camera with a specific use. While some folks will disagree, I do not believe that there is one camera that can do it all. I am just suggesting that Pentax come up with something between the Q7 and the K series incorporating some of the features such as EVF and flip LCD screen that folks on this board have been asking for. As demonstrated by the New Fuji X-T10, they could use their current K mount lenses and sensors in a downsized minimalistic body.
06-20-2015, 10:06 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
Apparently I am not the only one considering a smaller less weighty camera system to supplement my current Pentax systems.
I think it's a personal choice, for me the size of APSC DSLR does not bother me so much , I did 860km on a carbon race bike with a small backpack (model used by rock climbers) with a K-5+40ltd. Carrying a medium format would be a problem. But when I remove a lens; set the mirror up, and look at the size of the APSC sensor relative to the body of the camera, I think the K-7/5/3 series are oversize, I mean that this kind of camera is nearly sized to have a 24x36 sensor in it due to the size of the mount that was originally designed for a 24x36 image circle. As I can see the D750 is about the same size but lighter than a K-3, with a larger sensor in it. In other words, I don't think Pentax K-7/5/3 are size and weight optimized given the image quality that they deliver. As for Canon, the reason why I never considered buying a Canon full frame is because it looks like Canon still believe that big is beautiful and they seem to not do any design integration efforts.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 06-20-2015 at 10:15 AM.
06-20-2015, 04:36 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
There is a definite movement within the photographic community away from the big size DSLR’s some of which when not being used for photography can double as battleship anchors. I see it on different message boards, forums and the dealers I have spoken with are seeing the same.
I really think the time is fast coming when we will be giving up on the 19th century Rube Goldberg mirrors and prisms thing. Along with smaller and better sensors thus smaller glass and a proper implementation of a electronic shutter and we should be good to go. In five years we may be complaining about a serious camera being out of scale to the human hand (too small). I could live with that.
06-20-2015, 05:53 PM   #74
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Technologically you may be right. But there's still a characteristic of useful and long-lived 'tools' that says they'll also be comfortable in the hand and suited to the purpose.

There may well be fantastic micro-cameras in the future . . . but who'll be usin' 'em and for what?

The K200D fits a LOT of the supposed NEEDS for a smaller camera body and it and a *istDS still have a place in my minimalist-bag. The Q7's sort'a takin' over that role but there's still days when the older bodies are suitable . . . and fun.

Last edited by pacerr; 06-20-2015 at 05:59 PM.
06-21-2015, 01:17 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by pacerr Quote
There may well be fantastic micro-cameras in the future . . . but who'll be usin' 'em and for what?
Why not many of the same people and for the same purpose that a K5 is now used for?

Personally, right now, I could imagine something like a 1 inch sensor Panasonic LX100 as being a serious contender for many of my purposes.

I look upon using some of the full frame cameras like hauling around a tripod mounted 8x10 view camera - for most of my purposes too big. heavy, clumsy and intrusive.

Last edited by wildman; 06-21-2015 at 03:42 AM.
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