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01-26-2016, 01:02 PM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by patarok Quote
honestly?
OK:
I also like the idea of the EVF...but why the hell not place it under the hotshoe, leave the pop-up flash where it is and just design the body of the next Q a little bit like the (looking only on the form of the Body, and not the placement of the flash i found it very appealing. <i bought one for my son>
>> Pentax Optio i-10..?

and BTW:
a Viewfinder placed in the middle directly under the hotshoe, would make it look more like a professional camera that it is, or could be, instead a box of cigarettes...
When thinking about such a small camera, you have to be realistic about use of space; you cannot cram everything into that case. One very reasonable alternative is to remove the flash. I have not used that flash in the past year - in fact, that camera does so well in low light situations that I have seldom used any flash with it - and the honest truth is that such a small flash can make very little contribution to a picture. Pentax was willing to sacrifice the flash for their top-of-the-line cameras - the K-3ii doesn't have one and apparently the K-1 (or whatever the FF is called) won't have one either - so sacrificing it to get the utility of an EVF is certainly a reasonable option. Right now it has the ambiance of the range-finder cameras, like those made by Leica, which dominated the camera landscape back in the day, and in those days the only cameras with built-in-flash were those marketed to amateurs. I'm not sure that is a bad model to look back to for inspiration.

Yes, there are other alternatives. They could put a 1/2-inch hump on it to house the EVF and design that hump to echo the design of the K-3ii and K-1 (or whatever the FF is called). That comes with its own cost though. A hump like that would severely reduce the camera's "pocket-ability", and I'm not convinced that would be a good trade-off. The software company which provided my first employment had the slogan "form follows function", and I believe that is a very good guide. I kind of doubt many will buy this camera because they confuse it for a "professional" camera, but I fear some will refrain from buying it if it becomes more awkward to handle.


Last edited by reh321; 01-26-2016 at 01:07 PM. Reason: added thought
01-26-2016, 01:10 PM   #137
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Tilt and touch screen please; no EVF

Hereís a differing opinion on EVF. YMMV. And obviously does for some other Q users.

In late 2014 I bought two Q-S1 bodies and the 01, 02, 06 and 08 lenses for my wife and I to travel with. I did this after years of taking Pentax DSLR bodies and lenses on many overseas trips. We got older and the cameras got heavier. A schlepp around Istanbul finally did it for us.

One year and several trips later, Iím very happy with the portability and image quality of the Qís. My wife less so. A telephoto shooter, she uses the 06 exclusively and just isnít comfortable with the body-lens-controls combination. For Christmas I got her a Canon SX50, and she loves the lightweight 50 x zoom. For myself, I got a Canon G7x as an always with me in a belt case camera.

For a future Q, I donít want the body to get much bigger or heavier. Size is the critical value point for me. There are plenty of larger choices on the market that Ricoh cannot compete well with.

After using the touch enabled tilt-screen on the small Canon G7x, I would love to see the same added to the Q. It would facilitate taking the low angle shots I love to take with the Q-S1 sitting on the Manfrotto MP1-BK tripod I keep permanently attached to the Q. You can keep it permanently attached because, uniquely, the Qís battery and card access is from the sides. HDR and multiple exposures are possible with the this tripod.

Having a touch screen is really great for quick menu changes and setting the focus point.

As a DSLR user, I know all about viewfinders. I donít want one on my future Q.

If Ricoh tried to add an EVF to the Q, I believe the result would be either a much larger camera or a ridiculously small and unusable EVF. If Ricoh wanted to make a detachable EVF that you could add to the hotshot like Canon has for its G3x, that would be the way to go.
01-26-2016, 11:32 PM - 1 Like   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nilnoc Quote
Size is the critical value point for me....
Understood

QuoteOriginally posted by Nilnoc Quote
...After using the touch enabled tilt-screen on the small Canon G7x, I would love to see the same added to the Q...
But you do understand that it makes the camera bigger...

QuoteOriginally posted by Nilnoc Quote
...with the Q-S1 sitting on the Manfrotto MP1-BK tripod I keep permanently attached to the Q.
... I thought size was the critical value point...?

QuoteOriginally posted by Nilnoc Quote
...If Ricoh tried to add an EVF to the Q, I believe the result would be either a much larger camera
much larger? as large as an articulating screen and additional tripod... I'm not disagreeing, just thing your points don't make allot of sense to me.

QuoteOriginally posted by Nilnoc Quote
Having a touch screen is really great for quick menu changes and setting the focus point.
One of the big selling points for me is the physical controls. It is old-school and gives a creative bent to the Q that many other cameras lack. If I wanted an iPod style camera, I'd get the Nikon J1, with no controls. If Pentax do put a touch screen on the Q, I hope it is just for menu options rather than camera control.
01-27-2016, 01:32 AM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by bluefoam Quote
[With EVF] much larger? as large as an articulating screen and additional tripod... I'm not disagreeing, just thing your points don't make allot of sense to me.

One of the big selling points for me is the physical controls. It is old-school and gives a creative bent to the Q that many other cameras lack. If I wanted an iPod style camera, I'd get the Nikon J1, with no controls. If Pentax do put a touch screen on the Q, I hope it is just for menu options rather than camera control.
Let me clarify. I want to see a tilt-screen on the future Q. Not a fully articulated screen. Take a look at the Q-S1 and the Canon Powershot G7x on the Camera Size Comparison site. The body of the tilt-screen Canon without lens protrusion is actually thinner than the Q. A tilt screen doesn't have to add thickness. Also, the Canon has a full set of physical buttons and dials that allow the user to turn off the touch screen and still have full control of the camera. User choice.

Check out the tiny Manfrotto tripod I use. It's the MP1-BK and when folded adds a hair over 1/4 inch to the height of the Q and weighs 1 ounce. With it attached, my Q is still light and tiny. YMMV.

I get that there are people who really want an EVF on a future Q. I'm not one of them.

01-27-2016, 02:16 AM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nilnoc Quote
I get that there are people who really want an EVF on a future Q. I'm not one of them.
I'm just being pedantic, ignore me... I don't necessarily want an EVF, but they do need to find a much better way to allow viewfinding, the current screen is mostly invisible to me much of the time.

I'd prefer a high res screen that is viewable in sunlight. Touch Screen is fine once I also have my physical controls. Articulating screen (whether limited or fully articulating) is not a priority for me.... and of course Pentax should listen to me!!!
01-27-2016, 12:57 PM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by bluefoam Quote
I'm just being pedantic, ignore me... I don't necessarily want an EVF, but they do need to find a much better way to allow viewfinding, the current screen is mostly invisible to me much of the time.

I'd prefer a high res screen that is viewable in sunlight. Touch Screen is fine once I also have my physical controls. Articulating screen (whether limited or fully articulating) is not a priority for me.... and of course Pentax should listen to me!!!
Unlike Fuji which depends of feedback from users and Pros to refine existing products and design new ones, I have never heard or seen any indication of Pentax listening to anyone. Several times in this interview, Fuji execs note that changes to a product were made based on shooters feedback and how they depend on such feedback from their committed users.
Going Pro: We interview Fujifilm execs in Tokyo: Digital Photography Review
01-27-2016, 01:57 PM - 2 Likes   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
Unlike Fuji which depends of feedback from users and Pros to refine existing products and design new ones, I have never heard or seen any indication of Pentax listening to anyone. Several times in this interview, Fuji execs note that changes to a product were made based on shooters feedback and how they depend on such feedback from their committed users.
Going Pro: We interview Fujifilm execs in Tokyo: Digital Photography Review
That's not entirely true. Ricoh removed the "Ricoh" logo from the back of the K-3 II because of complaints from Pentaxicans.

So there is that. Fussing over the stuff most important to great photos....
01-27-2016, 05:23 PM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
Unlike Fuji which depends of feedback from users and Pros to refine existing products and design new ones, I have never heard or seen any indication of Pentax listening to anyone.
You are sure, you are on the right forum? fujiforumsDOTcom???

No, honestly: look:
Full Frame- Market Launch 2015 - RIAC Community

Than FYI: Some companies have contracts with persons which read forums and news for them to gain feedback about what users want, expect or like.

And as you missed the timespan to have a word on what we may see in a FF DSLR, you may want to take your chances for:
Full-Frame Lenses Wishlist - RIAC Community

spare yourself sophistic argumenting against the wishes or expectations of others and just post which lenses you would like to see.
As you may be able to imagine, nobody who evaluates such a wishlist for RICOH will read sophistic arguments on why fuji is better or why the guy who posted before is a totall silly bloke... just not interesting.

if you want to take part, just let us know which lenses you want to see.

FYIA, "http://community.us.ricoh-imaging.com" is a forum that is run by RICOH Imaging directly...

01-27-2016, 07:04 PM - 1 Like   #144
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Ricoh solicits opinion and feedback from many, many users.
01-27-2016, 09:28 PM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by patarok Quote
You are sure, you are on the right forum? fujiforumsDOTcom???

No, honestly: look:
Full Frame- Market Launch 2015 - RIAC Community

FYIA, "http://community.us.ricoh-imaging.com" is a forum that is run by RICOH Imaging directly...
I've never heard of this RIAC thing before. It appears to be well-hidden, user hostile, and under-developed. Also, there's no Q section.
01-28-2016, 12:14 AM   #146
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That RIAC effort seems stillborn.
Anyway, even if Ricoh scoured this forum for Q feedback, they'd be completely overwhelmed by the range of opinions here. From 'don't change a thing' to 'it needs a 1" sensor' everything has been proposed.

Probably the only thing we all agree on is better battery life.
01-28-2016, 01:15 AM   #147
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Probably we all agree with same size / form factor (but not as Q-S1), same control layout, better res screen, better battery life, better sensor.
I think that nobody would say no to an EVF if nothing else is changed (size, flash, layout)
But personnaly what I would like is more prime lens!
- 18,5 mm f1.4
- 3 mm f1.8
- retractable 5-15mm f2.8 constant

Last edited by morane_j; 01-28-2016 at 01:23 AM.
01-28-2016, 01:27 AM   #148
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Sorry, but even something as innocuous as an EVF has its detractors. :-(

Last edited by eyeswideshut; 01-28-2016 at 01:51 AM.
01-28-2016, 05:16 AM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote
That RIAC effort seems stillborn.
Anyway, even if Ricoh scoured this forum for Q feedback, they'd be completely overwhelmed by the range of opinions here. From 'don't change a thing' to 'it needs a 1" sensor' everything has been proposed.
This is why I've suggested multiple Q models with different price points, form factors and feature sets.

However... Realistically, the Q doesn't seem destined to become a major product line for Pentax, or at least not any time soon. Their situation is different from Olympus or Fujifilm, where mirrorless cameras are the mainstay of their business.
01-28-2016, 06:57 AM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by patarok Quote
You are sure, you are on the right forum? fujiforumsDOTcom???

No, honestly: look:
Full Frame- Market Launch 2015 - RIAC Community

Than FYI: Some companies have contracts with persons which read forums and news for them to gain feedback about what users want, expect or like.

And as you missed the timespan to have a word on what we may see in a FF DSLR, you may want to take your chances for:
Full-Frame Lenses Wishlist - RIAC Community

spare yourself sophistic argumenting against the wishes or expectations of others and just post which lenses you would like to see.
As you may be able to imagine, nobody who evaluates such a wishlist for RICOH will read sophistic arguments on why fuji is better or why the guy who posted before is a totall silly bloke... just not interesting.

if you want to take part, just let us know which lenses you want to see.

FYIA, "http://community.us.ricoh-imaging.com" is a forum that is run by RICOH Imaging directly...
On the full frame. In June they where looking for specs to put in a camera that should launch in october
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