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11-06-2015, 09:01 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote
An EVF is one of the most persistently mentioned non-features of the Q and Ricoh already have one in the old parts bin left over from the GXR... Now how tough could it be to give the Q the necessary data port?
Development of an EVF for a project like the Q would not be financially rewarding however having access to one already developed could open doors that were not formerly available. This could be that opportunity if it could be successfully connected to the existing sensor.

11-06-2015, 10:28 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote
"I don't need it so Ricoh shouldn't make it"

An EVF is one of the most persistently mentioned non-features of the Q and Ricoh already have one in the old parts bin left over from the GXR... Now how tough could it be to give the Q the necessary data port?
That's totally untrue! How did you come to that conclusion from what I said
I'd love one. I'd be happy to buy one and pay a premium if I had to.
However I'm realistic and pragmatic.

Pentax is smaller and Q has a smaller market than Canikon. Therefore what works for Canikon with it's larger market share won't for a smaller Pentax.
The argument that a larger manufacture made one so Pentax should is just not realistic.

Seemingly the 08 was niche but at least they made that.... And I bought one.

Roll on the Q EVF!!! Shame it's not likely to happen though.
11-06-2015, 11:59 AM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by jethro10 Quote
That's totally untrue! How did you come to that conclusion from what I said
I'd love one. I'd be happy to buy one and pay a premium if I had to.
However I'm realistic and pragmatic.

Pentax is smaller and Q has a smaller market than Canikon. Therefore what works for Canikon with it's larger market share won't for a smaller Pentax.
The argument that a larger manufacture made one so Pentax should is just not realistic.

Seemingly the 08 was niche but at least they made that.... And I bought one.

Roll on the Q EVF!!! Shame it's not likely to happen though.
Sorry my bad - I was being presumptious.

Anyway, Pentax will either go forward with things like ovf, lenses, better battery etc or the Q will fizzle and die, which would be a real pitty.
11-06-2015, 04:22 PM   #34
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i assume that people have very distorted impressions of what developing or buying an already developed EVF would cost.
never as much as you think it would... never ever...

i dont believe those "self cost production lies", they spread about distinct phones and game consoles, neither do i believe this lie when it comes to photography....
What this would cost... as if they would own only one little screw of RICOH. ... (+_°)

Who has got how much market share... in compact DC sales... How would you KNOW all this??(OK Ricoh will leave the mass market alone for a while... but i think you can also expect a comeback here.)
All that does mean very little to me, because this can only be assumptions.

And since PENTAX is now owned by a company that is way bigger than Nikon, Pentax-RICOH users/loyals should demand a bit more...including a really awesome EVF that is en par with EVFs found in other brands cameras.
I KNOW that RICOH got restructured in 2014... that cost time and energy, also a reason why some things are on hold or may take a bit more time than expected...

Some people dont get that PENTAX is a brand name, now owned by the RICOH-Imaging Dpt. ... so it had to be integrated in first place... to get things done the right way.

I dont have any clue how much which department contributes to the financial report. (I guess imaging belongs to the consumer branch, and maybe a bit to the industrial as sensors, (yes sensors....uuuhhh) and lenses produced by RICOH get used in industrial applications also.
They also produce beamers and sell many more products and services than you can imagine... We also signed a contract with Indian officials, which brought us a mandate to equip approximately 129.000 indian post offices with printing and IT infrastructure...
We sell equipment that you may see in some hollywood movies... beamers ... interactive whiteboards...
If you want further info on what is going on in the company you could have a look at:

BUT two things i really KNOW is that this company is way more worth than Nikon and that when you read the financial reports of this company you will see a very BIG net income after taxes.
All that only a few years after taking over a rundown Camera Sales infrastructure (PENTAX) and one year after restructuring as a whole and resetting industrial branch.
SO PLEASE DONT WORRY ABOUT THE F. COST WHEN YOU THINK YOU SHOULD DEMAND AN EVF IN THE NEXT Q....


I know that i actually stated, that one should not be interested in how much a technical agent pays for parts somewhere in asia....

But i laid out to you what PENTAX --> RICOH-Imaging really is now and what its part of,
to stop your angst and stop you fancying around how much a godd.. EVF would cost the company...
We arent down on ones uppers.... People have to stop themselves thinking this way...


The Pentax spirit was saved and now it goes UP!!!

CONCLUSION:

If we want an EVF we should demand it LOUD and CLEARLY.

I am begging you on my knees: "Prevent saying Q will fizzle and die." and please show a bit of gratitude and stop moaning when RICOH gets printed on a PENTAX camera...

11-06-2015, 09:34 PM   #35
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Nikon is a member of the Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group who's revenue was ¥4.495 trillion (2013) while Ricoh's revenue was ¥ 2231.9 billion (2014)
11-06-2015, 11:07 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote
"I don't need it so Ricoh shouldn't make it"

An EVF is one of the most persistently mentioned non-features of the Q and Ricoh already have one in the old parts bin left over from the GXR... Now how tough could it be to give the Q the necessary data port?
If it was really that easy

QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
Development of an EVF for a project like the Q would not be financially rewarding however having access to one already developed could open doors that were not formerly available. This could be that opportunity if it could be successfully connected to the existing sensor.
don't you think they would already have done it?
11-06-2015, 11:33 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
Nikon is a member of the Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group who's revenue was ¥4.495 trillion (2013) while Ricoh's revenue was ¥ 2231.9 billion (2014)
Not really correct.
The Mitsubishi Group is a loose consortium of Multinational Enterprises. However, there is no parent company. It is made up of about 40 individual companies. Each of the Mitsubishi companies owns substantial portions of the shares of the others. Instead of a parent company exercising control over subsidiaries, the group operates under the direction of a triumvirate of the three most important sister companies: the Mitsubishi Bank (Mitsubishi UFJ), the Mitsubishi Corporation, and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.

The senior managers of these three companies act as the co-chairman of a coordinating board called the Kinyo-Kai, or Friday Conference. The Kinyo-Kai, which is made up of the top executives of 25 of the Mitsubishi companies, establishes common policies as a sort of senior board of directors for the entire group.
As an industrial company, Nikon is one of the 25 core companies. Photographic imaging devices make up about 50% of Nikon's revenue. The major additional contributor is photolithographic steppers for use in semiconductor manufacture, of which Nikon is #2 globally. 80% or so if Nikon's shares trade publicly under the US symbol NINOY. The remaining 20% are held by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.

Mutsubishi UFJ Financial Group (after the 2004 merger with UFJ) is a financial services holding company, the second largest banking entity in the world (not counting the Chinese quasi-governmental banks); State Street Bank and J P Morgan Chase are among its largest shareholders. Likewise it is the largest shareholder of Morgan Stanley, Inc.

Nikon has actually very little if any access to capital from within Mitsubishi Group. In the past profitable companies subsidized less profitable companies in these groups but that arrangement has eroded or disappeared entirely recently as Japan's Central Bank has attempted to break the crushing deflation of the last twenty years.

Nikon operates as a free-standing company and must access capital in banking and securities markets. As a wholloy-owned subsidiary of Ricoh Corporation, Ricoh Imaging is much more closely tied to Ricoh than is Nikon to Mitsubishi. The statement, "Ricoh is twice the size of Nikon and half the size of Canon" is, in practice, accurate, even when referring to the entireity of Ricoh Corp. At 12/31/2014 Ricoh Corp was the 718th largest global public company in the Forbes Global 2000. Canon was #235. Nikon did not make the cut.

Mitsubishi UFJ (just the banking and trading company) was #33. Mitsubishi Corp was #131. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries was #334. In total, nine of the Mitsubishi companies were listed in the world's top 2000 publicly-traded companies.

Fairly recent (2013) to current (2015) and accurate summaries of these arrangements are available on the web under Mitsubishi Group and Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group and at Forbes Global 2000.

Last edited by monochrome; 11-07-2015 at 12:15 AM.
11-07-2015, 12:01 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
If it was really that easy

don't you think they would already have done it?
Beats me, I cannot imagine why. Hell, even Leica does EVF, Ricoh has it for the GXR and had a cheap one in their just discontinued bridge camera. EVF is not state of the art - it is an entry requirement if you want to sell mirrorless cameras in 2015. Ricoh better wise up.

11-07-2015, 01:48 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Not really correct..
Well my information was a copy'n'paste from Wiki. I guess I should know better than trust a wiki source. I'll stick to Pentaxforums in future.
11-07-2015, 10:28 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
If it was really that easy

don't you think they would already have done it?
No not really. Anyone who has been in a company that got bought out by another company understands the intricacies’ of such a buyout/merger. The relationship between Ricoh and Pentax is relatively new and with any such marriage there is a period of adjustment as people assume new positions, pecking order is established and everyone decides who is going to sit in what chair at the big meetings. At some point the Pentax engineers might be allowed a peak into Ricoh’s toy box and maybe be allowed to play with those toys and at that point they will have to decide the financial benefit to using any of those previously designed components. Even so such merger of components can take a year or more to perfect. I do not know if the sensor in the Q7 is the same or similar to 1.7 sensor that used in the Olympus Stylus but they have demonstrated how to connect a high quality EVF to that sized sensor.
11-07-2015, 11:40 AM   #41
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It appears that in most cases the 'Pentax Way' is now the Ricoh Way - IOW, it seems to have been the Ricoh engineers who've done the adjusting. For dead certain the brand is Pentax other than the GR and Theta.

FWIW, I was bought 11 time between 1982 and 2009 - 11 business cards and I never changed my telephone number. Every single time the acquiring company changed its systems and processes to those of my company, and when a manager from the acquiring company was a little mule-ish about it my company's manager was the surviving manager.

Sometimes the buyer wants what the seller has, and what the seller has is systems or patents or people.
11-07-2015, 05:54 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
It appears that in most cases the 'Pentax Way' is now the Ricoh Way - IOW, it seems to have been the Ricoh engineers who've done the adjusting. For dead certain the brand is Pentax other than the GR and Theta.
I would hope so because if you remember how bad Ricoh cameras were in the 70's and 80' you would lower your expectations. Ricoh cameras were called Roach's. There was a photo floating around Chicago camera clubs showing Cheech Marin holding a Ricoh camera with a puzzled look on his face and he was saying something like this is not the Roach I ordered. Even the sales people at the camera stores called them Roaches.

You’re lucky that you were bought out so many times and maintained a similar identity though 11 times in such a relative short period of time suggests you were in a very volatile business as such numerous changes in ownership is no where near common.
11-07-2015, 07:48 PM   #43
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I am in financial services. I was serially consolidated.
11-07-2015, 08:02 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
I would hope so because if you remember how bad Ricoh cameras were in the 70's and 80' you would lower your expectations.
Yeah, and in the 40's there was War with Germany, nowadays U.S.A. is begging Europe on its knees to accept TTIP. everybody who wants to represent something drives a Mercedes S or an Audi R8.

Where is the connection? Sry i dont see it.
I see the success and the reputation of the Ricoh GR as well as the underestimated GXR(now this cam is an insiders' tip...)
and other dedicated cameras... The WG-M1(which could be a real success and could outrun GoPro if RICOH would only have the right nerve for advertising and bribing subculture idols... )
for instance is a RICOH product as it seems and how and why who works together or not...
to me it seems RICOH nowadays has become a real competition for Canon.

And one has to accept that RICOH bought Pentax Imaging department and that now both imaging departments have been consolidated and can be seen as one from 2015 on.

There is no way you can say Pentax is a Company anymore... Pentax is now a RICOH trademark and as i see what comes in 2016 i am very happy about it that it is.
New lenses, a FF, a real long lens on the Q-Systems lens roadmap...

And watching it from a distance one could see, that RICOH is a very innovative Company that buys the right people... that is growing, money-making and economical.
This is a horse one can back on. And pretending PENTAX would be more than a RICOH trademark would not bring any progress.

I know the PENTAX spirit will live on in the cameras that RICOH will produce in the future and i am satisfied with that.

Conclusion:
I wouldn't bet my ass on it, but I am pretty sure that we will see an evolution of the Q-S1 when the FF is out and booming.
(what was the thread about again... ah signs of a new Q soon... OK... )
11-08-2015, 08:07 PM   #45
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There was a news story cuple of years ago stating Ricoh was in the top 20 electromics companies for patents. Some others on the list were Sony, Samsung, Panasonic. Nikon was no where to be seen. Probably not good for a company in an increasingly electronic field. I truly believe Nikon is headed where Pentax has been the last 20ish years. It won't be pretty. Hope I am wrong.
thanks
barondla

There will be a new Q. Why would Ricoh abandon something that sells well in the home market? They won't. The Q line isn't tied to yearly updates as much as more main stream cameras.
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