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12-01-2016, 08:21 AM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
I hate to tell you but you are quite wrong about this. The GM-5 with the 12-32mm lens which is much smaller than the comparable Pentax 5-15mm lens easily fits into my pocket while the Q7 with the 5-15 has no chance of fitting into that same pocket. It will fit with the 01 lens but I don't like being restricted to a single focal length lens when out and about as that is like driving a car with just a one speed transmission.

I believe use of the word "voluminous" was deliberate and in many cases @Lobalobo is right. The Q Fisheye is significantly less voluminous than the Panny fisheye. And the 01 Prime is significantly less voluminous than the 20/1.7. And the Panasonic 7-14 wide zoom is significantly more voluminous than the 08 Wide Zoom.

If you like shooting wide, Q is much smaller than M43.

12-01-2016, 09:29 AM   #272
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I believe use of the word "voluminous" was deliberate and in many cases @Lobalobo is right. The Q Fisheye is significantly less voluminous than the Panny fisheye. And the 01 Prime is significantly less voluminous than the 20/1.7. And the Panasonic 7-14 wide zoom is significantly more voluminous than the 08 Wide Zoom.

If you like shooting wide, Q is much smaller than M43.
I had noted the term voluminous as used and understood what it implied however discussing volume as related to lenses is irrelevant. Someone could design a lens that was 1/2 inch in diameter and three inches long and it might be less voluminous but when storing it in pocket, which was the original design consideration of this series, highly impracticable. Now when comparing other lenses then the ones I noted in my previous message one must consider image quality as well as size. When comparing the 08 lens which is designed to cover a small sensor and provides focal lengths of 18-27 then a comparable lens in the much larger 4/3 format would be the highly ranked Olympus 9/18 which provides a bit more reach with focal length of 18-36 and is only 2mm larger in dia than the 08 lens. When installed on the GM-5 body which is narrower than the Q7 body this package is about the same length as the Q7 with the 08. I do find it interesting that DPReview never reviewed any of the lenses designed for the Q series however, at the time they reviewed it, DPReview called the Olympus 9/18 the most compact wide angle lens made. Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4-5.6 review: Digital Photography Review
12-01-2016, 09:53 AM   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
I hate to tell you but you are quite wrong about this. The GM-5 with the 12-32mm lens which is much smaller than the comparable Pentax 5-15mm lens easily fits into my pocket while the Q7 with the 5-15 has no chance of fitting into that same pocket.
You need larger pockets. When I go to church, the Q7+02 is in my pants pocket sometimes. When I go walking, I usually take my K30+55-300, but if I'm going to stop at a store, I put the Q7+06 in my pants pocket {and, no, I've never been searched as a shoplifting suspect}. Note: when I carry Q7+zoom, the lens is pointing in the direction I walk, so the height of the camera determines the height of the bulge - and as a 68-year-old male, I no longer worry what people think if my pockets bulge a tad.
QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
It will fit with the 01 lens but I don't like being restricted to a single focal length lens when out and about as that is like driving a car with just a one speed transmission.
Each of my first two adjustable cameras was a rangefinder with a 45mm lens. Each of my first two SLR's was a Pentax with a 50mm prime lens {and a 75-205 zoom lens}. I did just fine then, and I that experience is background to my carrying my Q7+01. {My first zoom in standard range was 1995, when I got my first AF kit, a Canon Rebel}. Even today, many here would rather have several Limited primes than a zoom. Yes, a smaller standard zoom would be nice, but I believe an EVF would add much much more utility; I don't expect either, and I will do just fine without either.

---------- Post added 12-01-16 at 12:01 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
I made that same move to the GM-5 when I was investigating the 4/3 format and while I have now sold most of my 4/3 equipment and moved on to Fuji, I kept the GM-5 which has become my walk around pocket camera. Though I have sold a few of the lenses I still use the Q7 when photographing model trains because it still has the best depth of field for such shots and the image quality is good enough for my final deliverables of that particular subject matter. Since Panasonic dropped the GM line the prices have actually gone up a bit on remaining inventory.
I am amused that you got the EVF-equipped Panasonic camera instead of the comparable, but not EVF-equipped, camera from Olympus. Just over two years ago, just before I purchased my Q-7, you were industriously trying to convince me that no EVF was needed.

Last edited by reh321; 12-01-2016 at 10:14 AM. Reason: added note.
12-01-2016, 10:49 AM   #274
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GM1 with either of the bodycap Olympus lenses is the smallest ILC combo....and OK, a constant F8 doesn't cope with low light but as a walk around on a bright day, it does OK.When the light goes the Q7 and 1 lens is the way to go.Fisheye 9 or a 15mm....zoom with your feet.

12-01-2016, 11:44 AM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
I had noted the term voluminous as used and understood what it implied however discussing volume as related to lenses is irrelevant. Someone could design a lens that was 1/2 inch in diameter and three inches long and it might be less voluminous but when storing it in pocket, which was the original design consideration of this series, highly impracticable. Now when comparing other lenses then the ones I noted in my previous message one must consider image quality as well as size. When comparing the 08 lens which is designed to cover a small sensor and provides focal lengths of 18-27 then a comparable lens in the much larger 4/3 format would be the highly ranked Olympus 9/18 which provides a bit more reach with focal length of 18-36 and is only 2mm larger in dia than the 08 lens. When installed on the GM-5 body which is narrower than the Q7 body this package is about the same length as the Q7 with the 08. I do find it interesting that DPReview never reviewed any of the lenses designed for the Q series however, at the time they reviewed it, DPReview called the Olympus 9/18 the most compact wide angle lens made. Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4-5.6 review: Digital Photography Review
Volume is very relevant. I have the Q bag with slots for a Q+lens, 2 zooms, and 4 primes that cover everything from fisheye to 200mm. I very often toss this little bag in a backpack or messenger bag for trips. I cannot build a comparable Micro Four-Thirds kit to fit in the same bag.
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12-01-2016, 11:51 AM   #276
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The oly BCL 9mm + the pany 12-32 + the pany 35-100, does it in 3....if theres room my big lens is the Oly 75-300.
12-01-2016, 12:28 PM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
The oly BCL 9mm + the pany 12-32 + the pany 35-100, does it in 3....if theres room my big lens is the Oly 75-300.
Never used the BCL 9, is it any good? I have the 12-32 and 35-100 Varios. Good lenses with decent SR but I consider them primarily outdoor/good light lenses. At 200mm in mediocre light I might prefer the 06 at F2.8 vs. the 35-100 Vario at F6.3.

Kit is still missing a fast normal. You could swap out the BCL 9 for the 20/1.7 or 15/2.5 and have an ok kit but your still missing a wide zoom and fisheye. There are times when 24mm EQ is just not wide enough.

12-01-2016, 12:47 PM   #278
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For the price both BCLs do well....mind you DXO rated it the worst lense(15mm) they've tested....watch the YouTube on both of them.Yes , I agree,the 2 compact Panys are good light lenses.


The 1 and 6 on Qs are great, I cant afford the 8.


My m43 kit( its basic now) needs the GX80/5 and pany 20 and oly 45....2017 probably? Then i'll be ready for the cross country bike trip!

---------- Post added 12-02-16 at 06:51 AM ----------

I find 24mm is wide enough for what I do....I use a Superwide sigma 24 on the K1 and other kit zooms equal to that on my other systems.


UWA ?.....maybe a 20mm if one pops up(unlikely as all the K1 buyers grabbed them!)
12-04-2016, 10:56 AM   #279
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The Q-s1 has disappeared from price comparison sites. There are a few shops still selling them and there are a few on amazon and ebay. Ricoh has either discontinued or mothballed the system. Not many second hand offerings either.
12-04-2016, 12:58 PM   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
My m43 kit( its basic now) needs the GX80/5 and pany 20 and oly 45....2017 probably? Then i'll be ready for the cross country bike trip!
Maybe add the 12-32 Vario for wide angle? I went cross country on a motorcycle this past summer and I chose a GX85s and some lenses:


Tools of the Trade
by John Flores, on Flickr

If I was to do it on a bicycle, I'd likely take a Q though because a kit that i would build and take (01, 06, 08) would be lighter.
12-05-2016, 10:58 AM   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I am amused that you got the EVF-equipped Panasonic camera instead of the comparable, but not EVF-equipped, camera from Olympus. Just over two years ago, just before I purchased my Q-7, you were industriously trying to convince me that no EVF was needed.
Yes, I know and you have commented on this in the past. Actually Olympus does not make an ILC camera that is as small as the GM-5 however, in the past two years I have owned numerous cameras from Olympus including three E-M10’s and an E-M5. My experience with Olympus quality control was not a positive one. All three of the E-M10’s had to be replaced within six months of when I acquired them so all are gone.I still have the E-M5 and keep it primarily for it’s video capabilities which are demonstrated
. ( For optimum results watch that video in it's full HD format.) I also experimented with several Panasonic cameras and while they had good video their still image quality left a lot to be desired. The GM-5 is the only Panasonic camera still on premises. Why the GM-5 instead of the GM-1? Several people who have not used a GM-1 have asked that question. If they used a GM-1 they would be familiar with the really bad operation of the controls which were noted by many of the reviewers. The GM-5 was a definite up grade in operation and the EVF was a bonus.

As far as my saying that an EVF was not necessary if you go back and reread those postings you will note that I usually stipulated for my use, or for the type of shots I take. If you remember that my primary use for the Q series was to make use of it’s depth of field to photograph models. In every demonstration from the first one in this blog to showing images I shot at the Scottsdale Model Railroad club to Ol’ Harold showing how he photographed a structure on his model railroad, we showed that there was no need for an EVF. However, most recently, in a few of his videos, DamienLovegrove has demonstrated how he takes great shots using the LCD on the back of his Fuji X-Pro camera with a fixed LCD like on the Q series and he is not the only pro that I have noticed doing this.
,while he does use the tilt screen on his Fuji X-T1, he is still using just the LCD and the same could be accomplished without a tilt screen if he had gotten down on his stomach. So, if someone like Damien can do without an EVF and produce award winning shots then the rest of us should be able to do similar. Right!! So, in my tool box I have and use the Q7 for photographing model trains and I will continue to do so until I find a camera that can produce a similar depth of field when used in such tight conditions. The GM-5 and 12-32mm lens which produces good quality images and video that is acceptable, is used as my daily around town pocket camera. The Olympus E-M5 for it’s great HD video capabilities and my line of Fuji X-Series cameras for the high quality product and employee shots I do for local companies and portraits I do for family and friends. It's all about using the right camera for the job and my varied interests necessitate having cameras that have these different capabilities.

Last edited by CWRailman; 12-05-2016 at 11:51 AM.
12-05-2016, 12:51 PM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
Why the GM-5 instead of the GM-1?
QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
really bad operation of the controls which were noted by many of the reviewers. The GM-5 was a definite up grade in operation and the EVF was a bonus.
Yes CW, the GM1 is very useable...perhaps the reviewers got it wrong?


I noted that you opted for the GM5 over the GM1 before I bought into the system...I looked at plenty of reviews and saved Aussie 200ish $, buying used GM1 over a new GM5.
Bluntys youtube is one that comes to mind.


EVF is an advantage by about 30 seconds(that it takes to install the Loupe) and I prefer the Loupe view rather than a EVF(my compact Pano has a similar EVF to GM5)


GM5 is an upgrade and if one comes along at the right price i'll invest, however the GM1 is an extreeeeeemely capable little tool.Cant beat it as a pocketable walk around(imo).


As far as "acceptable" video goes Pano does a very good job when compared with Pentax.I occasionaly video live music concerts and my opinion is the GM1 does a better job with the vario 35-100 than the Q7 does with the 06 in most lighting conditions.


Usually if I need the little cameras I have a Q or 2 and the Pano, they do compliment one another.


Once again, in this segment, no 1 camera offers everything.
12-05-2016, 01:16 PM   #283
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Yes CW, the GM1 is very useable...perhaps the reviewers got it wrong?
Here are some of the improvement in control features provided by the GM-5 when compared to the GM-1 that were noted by DPReview and I was referring to. A few other reviewers had similar comments. The changes are more dramatic when you have the cameras side by side and handle them both. Of course many people were put off by the major increase in price between the GM-1 and the GM-5 but as noted in the above review, the GM-5 seemed to be targeted at a different group of shooters with needs similar to those using full bodied cameras.
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM5 Review: Digital Photography Review
12-05-2016, 01:59 PM   #284
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And yes, 2 different cameras.Personally I opted to buy another lens instead of the EVF.




It was after reading about you buying the GM5 that I researched it and the GM1.....I chose the later due to the positive reports, I didn't read a negative one and watched plenty of YouTube on both.


DP has been critised widely not only on PF but other forums of which you participate(and I'm just an observer)...I just bypass their reviews these days so I wont look at your link.I know GM5 is a little better and a lot pricier.A $4 loupe replaces the EVF for me.


As ive stated, if a GM5 pops up...then I'm interested at the right price but at this point in time theres more capable bodies(no lens) for similar prices.GM1 is bang for buck.
12-05-2016, 05:18 PM   #285
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
As far as my saying that an EVF was not necessary if you go back and reread those postings you will note that I usually stipulated for my use, or for the type of shots I take. If you remember that my primary use for the Q series was to make use of it’s depth of field to photograph models. In every demonstration from the first one in this blog to showing images I shot at the Scottsdale Model Railroad club to Ol’ Harold showing how he photographed a structure on his model railroad, we showed that there was no need for an EVF. However, most recently, in a few of his videos, DamienLovegrove has demonstrated how he takes great shots using the LCD on the back of his Fuji X-Pro camera with a fixed LCD like on the Q series and he is not the only pro that I have noticed doing this. Even in this tutorial,while he does use the tilt screen on his Fuji X-T1, he is still using just the LCD and the same could be accomplished without a tilt screen if he had gotten down on his stomach. So, if someone like Damien can do without an EVF and produce award winning shots then the rest of us should be able to do similar. Right!!
Wrong!! I am 68 years old, and I have had a bad back for twenty of those years. When I'm in a store trying to read labels from the bottom shelf, an employee will sometimes come by to see if I'm OK ... and sometimes I need their help to get back on my feet. In those exchanges I was specifically talking about taking pictures outdoors, and I already knew from using smart phones that I have trouble seeing an LCD in open sunlight. Frankly I don't care what professionals do - if I cannot see the screen to frame the picture as I want to frame it, the fact that someone else can do it is irrelevant; you specifically posted a picture showing how to stand, holding the camera with one hand and shading the LCD with the other. That would not work for me, because I was already thinking in terms of MF, and that didn't leave me a hand to use in focusing. I assumed that your picture of using a giant duck hat to shade the LCD was meant to be a joke.
QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
So, in my tool box I have and use the Q7 for photographing model trains and I will continue to do so until I find a camera that can produce a similar depth of field when used in such tight conditions. The GM-5 and 12-32mm lens which produces good quality images and video that is acceptable, is used as my daily around town pocket camera. The Olympus E-M5 for it’s great HD video capabilities and my line of Fuji X-Series cameras for the high quality product and employee shots I do for local companies and portraits I do for family and friends. It's all about using the right camera for the job and my varied interests necessitate having cameras that have these different capabilities.
My approach in general has been different from yours. My budget has never had room for expensive stuff or multiples of things, so $$$$ lenses are out of the question. I have always gotten by using two cameras, so having a regular camera, a bridge camera for birding, a small pocket camera, etc, etc is also out of the question. To me, the benefit of my Q-7 is that is simultaneously meets two of my needs: pocket camera and birding camera.

---------- Post added 12-05-16 at 07:25 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
EVF is an advantage by about 30 seconds(that it takes to install the Loupe) and I prefer the Loupe view rather than a EVF(my compact Pano has a similar EVF to GM5)
One of my uses of my Q-7 is as my pocket camera. Several people here have already told me that a Q-7 + 02 or Q-7 + 06 will not fit into a pocket. I do fit a Q-7 + 02 + 06 in my pockets, but even I don't have any room for a "loupe", even for my Hoodman collapsible unit which installs in 5 seconds, so to me the EVF is an advantage of being able to take pictures with my pocket camera that currently are out of the question.

added comments:
But this whole question is probably moot. I have accepted the likelihood of there never being another Q, so I have adjusted the best I can. In the eighteen months since I got my K-30, I have taken nearly as many pictures with my Q-7 as I have with my K-30. The Q-7 {kitted in a messenger bag} is what took to Calif when I rode the train out there to help my daughter drive to a new job in Indiana and space was at a premium. The Q-7 is what I took yesterday {almost every pocket in my suit having some piece of the kit} when we went to a Madrigal Dinner at the college where my wife works.



Last edited by reh321; 12-05-2016 at 06:27 PM. Reason: added picture taken in San Diego
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