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12-30-2015, 04:08 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I bought an X30 for casual use because not only is it compact and has an EVF built in, but also it has an LCD screen that flips out. It's a great little camera, but I must say that I prefer the photos my original Q produces. They are, of course, rather different beasts because of the X30's fixed lens and the Q is small, but the Q system is not compact when in use.

At the expense of flogging an allegedly dead horse, I believe a revised Q with an optional EVF would attract a greater number of buyers, but it would need updating in other areas, too, as others have noted. A collapsible kit zoom would make it more compact.
QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
I've openly wished for a "Super Q" with an EVF. . . And yes, it would be bigger. And yes, it would be more expensive. It would be less "Q-like" than the Q we have now.

The answer would be to have more than one Q-mount camera in the lineup. Don't stop making the tiny Q. Produce them both! Sort of like Olympus produce both the PEN and the OM-D.

However, M4/3 is the mainstay of Olympus's product line. Q isn't the mainstay of Pentax. So. . . As long as Q is a footnote after the K series and the 645 series, this probably won't happen.
Before I got my Q-7, people here told me not to even think "pocket" and "Q camera" in the same paragraph. They were wrong. My Q-7+01 comfortably fits in the pocket of every pair of pants I wear; I had to go to a Japanese merchant to get the 01, but I was OK with that. That is not why this is a "dead horse", exactly, but related.

And, yes, after spending parts of today thinking about it, I am fairly certain that this horse is ready for the glue factory. Why? - because we have been told multiple times, by Pentax's actions and by words here, that the primary clientele for the Q family is the average Japanese school girl. If we are honest, in the past few years, iPhone has come to have complete domination over the school girl market in every country, so if that is all Pentax is willing to think about, the product is "dead as a doornail". I believe that a Q could succeed in several different markets, but Pentax would have to think outside the school girl box, and I believe they are too fixated on the FF box for them to free up the resources needed to reposition the Q. The example I use most often is the birding market; the Canon SX-50 dominated that market until the Nikon P900 zoomed in. I have looked at pictures from both cameras, and quite honestly those pictures are noisy - exactly what you'd expect from a camera with a 1/2.3" sensor. Yes, the Pentax FF will produce images with less noise than any image a Q could ever produce, but that is a "strawman" - nobody is going to claim that a Q is a worthy competitor of any modern FF, but that is not the point. A WR Q with an EVF and kitted with a lens in the 50-300mm range would be a very worthy competitor for the Canon and Nikon offerings, neither of which is WR, but Pentax would have to produce it and then get the attention of merchants and non-Pentax consumers. BTW - even the Pentax FF will have the problem of getting the attention of merchants and non-Pentax consumers.

However, Pentax belongs to Ricoh, and they have the right to decide how to allocate their resources. Right now, their focus is on FF, and that is why this particular horse is stone cold. I am disappointed, but life is like that sometimes.

12-30-2015, 04:12 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Before I got my Q-7, people here told me not to even think "pocket" and "Q camera" in the same paragraph. They were wrong. My Q-7+01 comfortably fits in the pocket of every pair of pants I wear; I had to go to a Japanese merchant to get the 01, but I was OK with that.
We obviously have different tailors...
12-30-2015, 04:24 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
We obviously have different tailors...
Yeah, my "tailor" is a Mexican woman who works in a shop to which K-Mart outsources work ... or a Chinese woman who works in a shop to which Old Navy outsources work. There are certain advantages to being a 68-year-old American male.

Last edited by reh321; 12-30-2015 at 06:07 PM.
12-30-2015, 07:44 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by jethro10 Quote
I think the last 3 posts highlight a point that should be/is really obvious. Changes, if we even get a new Q, must be cheap, and appeal to the masses.
WiFi, touch screen, tilt screen, hi res screen, etc.
This exists, and it's called the "Nikon 1 J5". It has WiFi, touch screen, tilt screen, hi-res screen, 21MP 1" sensor (2.7x more area than 1/1.7" sensor), can shoot 20fps burst. I saw lots of tourists in NY carrying Nikon 1's during a recent visit to Times Sq. I didn't see a single tourist with Pentax of any kind, let alone a Q. It's smaller than the Q-S1, too. Plus Nikon has 13 lenses for the Nikon 1 mount, covering 35mm equivalent range of focal lengths from 18mm to 810mm.

If Ricoh ever decides to update the Q-S1, this is what it's up against, and the Q-mount is too small to fit a 1" sensor.

12-30-2015, 11:44 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Yeah, my "tailor" is a Mexican woman who works in a shop to which K-Mart outsources work ... or a Chinese woman who works in a shop to which Old Navy outsources work. There are certain advantages to being a 68-year-old American male.
Good grief! You're older than me. My tailor is (probably) a Chinese woman who works in a factory in a Southern China.
12-31-2015, 02:06 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
I've openly wished for a "Super Q" with an EVF. . . And yes, it would be bigger. And yes, it would be more expensive. It would be less "Q-like" than the Q we have now.
It does not have to be much bigger if the use a pop-up EVF.
Latest versions of Sony RX100 (which is of the same size a Q) includes a pop-up EVF


Q would of course be much more expensive, and one of hot-shoe or built in flash might have to go.
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12-31-2015, 03:22 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
IQ would of course be much more expensive, and one of hot-shoe or built in flash might have to go.
Lack of hot-shoe would be deal breaker for me...
12-31-2015, 07:50 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrNPhoto Quote
This exists, and it's called the "Nikon 1 J5". It has WiFi, touch screen, tilt screen, hi-res screen, 21MP 1" sensor (2.7x more area than 1/1.7" sensor), can shoot 20fps burst. I saw lots of tourists in NY carrying Nikon 1's during a recent visit to Times Sq. I didn't see a single tourist with Pentax of any kind, let alone a Q. It's smaller than the Q-S1, too. Plus Nikon has 13 lenses for the Nikon 1 mount, covering 35mm equivalent range of focal lengths from 18mm to 810mm.

If Ricoh ever decides to update the Q-S1, this is what it's up against, and the Q-mount is too small to fit a 1" sensor.
I had a friend visiting me in NYC a few months back, and she had a Nikon 1 that I borrowed for a day. I hated using it. It took *for ever* to adjust any settings, there was no straight Av mode, light eval. options were way down in a submenu, etc. I'm sure it is part my being not used to it, but what was a physical click away on my Q was always somewhere in the 3rd submenu on the Nikon 1. (I didn't even experiment trying to find some filters, etc.)

12-31-2015, 07:52 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrNPhoto Quote
This exists, and it's called the "Nikon 1 J5". It has WiFi, touch screen, tilt screen, hi-res screen, 21MP 1" sensor (2.7x more area than 1/1.7" sensor), can shoot 20fps burst. I saw lots of tourists in NY carrying Nikon 1's during a recent visit to Times Sq. I didn't see a single tourist with Pentax of any kind, let alone a Q. It's smaller than the Q-S1, too. Plus Nikon has 13 lenses for the Nikon 1 mount, covering 35mm equivalent range of focal lengths from 18mm to 810mm.

If Ricoh ever decides to update the Q-S1, this is what it's up against, and the Q-mount is too small to fit a 1" sensor.
This is exactly the type of thinking I'm trying to get away from.

If the Q family is viewed as competing against cell phones, it is doomed as being too big (and not being able to make calls)

If the Q family is viewed as an MILC, is is doomed as having the smallest sensor

If the Q family is viewed as being a small-sensored camera, then it has a good chance as long as it is tailored to compete against others in that class.

Roughly 60 weeks ago, I considered getting a Canon SX-50 because of the birding pictures others were getting with it, but I have tried to limit myself to two cameras, and if an SX-50 replaced my Elph, I'd end up having no up-to-date camera to slip into my pocket. When I bought my Q-7 roughly 54 weeks ago, I bought it to become my birding camera and my new pocketable camera, replacing the 1/2.3" cameras that have been the best camera I had (i.e., the camera I had with me), for perhaps two-thirds of the past eight years (i.e., when I didn't have my primary camera with me). Every night I copy images from my cameras to my computer. Looking at my files last night, I discovered that, for the first time ever, over the past month I took more pictures with my pocketable camera than with my primary camera. Between a Madrigal Dinner, a concert, activities at church, and various holiday parties, I took many pictures that I would never have bothered with if I were still using my Canon Elph, and unlike last year, when my wife was highly critical of the pictures I took at the Madrigal Dinner with the Elph, the members of my family were very complimentary of what I came away with straight-out-of-camera.

Last edited by reh321; 12-31-2015 at 08:21 AM. Reason: expand thought
01-01-2016, 12:20 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Yeah, my "tailor" is a Mexican woman who works in a shop to which K-Mart outsources work ... or a Chinese woman who works in a shop to which Old Navy outsources work. There are certain advantages to being a 68-year-old American male.
Well I'm not quite 68, but I get the Q with 08 or 02 fitted in one pocket and the other lens, the 06 and a small bean bag in the other pocket. This compromises my 'kit' for a vacation. Very liberating.
J

---------- Post added 01-01-16 at 07:26 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MrNPhoto Quote
This exists, and it's called the "Nikon 1 J5". It has WiFi, touch screen, tilt screen, hi-res screen, 21MP 1" sensor (2.7x more area than 1/1.7" sensor), can shoot 20fps burst. I saw lots of tourists in NY carrying Nikon 1's during a recent visit to Times Sq. I didn't see a single tourist with Pentax of any kind, let alone a Q. It's smaller than the Q-S1, too. Plus Nikon has 13 lenses for the Nikon 1 mount, covering 35mm equivalent range of focal lengths from 18mm to 810mm.

If Ricoh ever decides to update the Q-S1, this is what it's up against, and the Q-mount is too small to fit a 1" sensor.
Ha! Your right. In fact when it looked like the Q line was dying, I looked at this exact camera. It's all you say, and more. But, but, but, it just didn't have as good a menu/handling set up,I felt I'd be frustrated. So I didn't jump ship. Close though for me. The Nikon 1 line is developing quickly, it's where I'll probably be next.
Love my Q7 though.
J

---------- Post added 01-01-16 at 07:28 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by paludinus Quote
I had a friend visiting me in NYC a few months back, and she had a Nikon 1 that I borrowed for a day. I hated using it. It took *for ever* to adjust any settings, there was no straight Av mode, light eval. options were way down in a submenu, etc. I'm sure it is part my being not used to it, but what was a physical click away on my Q was always somewhere in the 3rd submenu on the Nikon 1. (I didn't even experiment trying to find some filters, etc.)
This was my exact feeling. If ever Nikon get this nailed, the Q sinks into oblivion.
J

Last edited by jethro10; 01-01-2016 at 12:30 AM.
01-01-2016, 03:28 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by jethro10 Quote
Well I'm not quite 68, but I get the Q with 08 or 02 fitted in one pocket and the other lens, the 06 and a small bean bag in the other pocket. This compromises my 'kit' for a vacation. Very liberating.
J

---------- Post added 01-01-16 at 07:26 AM ----------



Ha! Your right. In fact when it looked like the Q line was dying, I looked at this exact camera. It's all you say, and more. But, but, but, it just didn't have as good a menu/handling set up,I felt I'd be frustrated. So I didn't jump ship. Close though for me. The Nikon 1 line is developing quickly, it's where I'll probably be next.
Love my Q7 though.
J

---------- Post added 01-01-16 at 07:28 AM ----------

This was my exact feeling. If ever Nikon get this nailed, the Q sinks into oblivion.
J




To me Pentax has not built on the strengths of the Q. It disregarded one of its main
strengths, size.. A lot of people who buy small cameras don't want compactness just
for the sake of it, but for good reason, such as want or need to shoot inconspicuously!


I bought the Q because I do a lot on candid photography and wanted an inconspicuous
camera. I was certain Pentax would release a medium telephoto prime lens that would
allow me to shoot with a small camera and from a few feet away from my subjects.

To my bewilderment that has not happened!


Pentax released a whole bunch of different lenses but not one that would complement
the main strength of the Q camera, i.e. its compactness and inconspicuous size .


Why build a small spy like camera and not release a medium telephoto lens with it?
Makes no sense!!


Not having a medium telephoto prime made the Q a very diificult proposition for me.


Again, why would a manufacturer build a candid camera an not provide a medium telephoto
prime lens that would allow for candid photography?


Please note, most small cameras that enjoy commercial success also have available
glass in the 70-90mm range, usually faster glass, in the f2.0 range. Example Sony Rx100
series, Panasonic GM1, many others.


I recently switched to the wildly popular GM-1 that has available a 85mm prime lens,
and also a 90mm lens from Olympus. With that miniscule camera and a equally small
85mm prime lens I can finally shoot inconspicuously.


If they want to rescue the Q, its probably to late, as large sensor small cameras took over
the market, 1 1/2 inch sensor point and shoots, m4/3's such as the upcoming GM7 from
Panasonic will make it extremely hard for the small sensor Q to compete.


So basically the Q is a dead end, ...and a largely mismanaged product in my opinion.
01-01-2016, 01:09 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quser215 Quote
To me Pentax has not built on the strengths of the Q. It disregarded one of its main
strengths, size.. A lot of people who buy small cameras don't want compactness just
for the sake of it, but for good reason, such as want or need to shoot inconspicuously!


I bought the Q because I do a lot on candid photography and wanted an inconspicuous
camera. I was certain Pentax would release a medium telephoto prime lens that would
allow me to shoot with a small camera and from a few feet away from my subjects.

To my bewilderment that has not happened!


Pentax released a whole bunch of different lenses but not one that would complement
the main strength of the Q camera, i.e. its compactness and inconspicuous size .


Why build a small spy like camera and not release a medium telephoto lens with it?
Makes no sense!!


Not having a medium telephoto prime made the Q a very diificult proposition for me.


Again, why would a manufacturer build a candid camera an not provide a medium telephoto
prime lens that would allow for candid photography?


Please note, most small cameras that enjoy commercial success also have available
glass in the 70-90mm range, usually faster glass, in the f2.0 range. Example Sony Rx100
series, Panasonic GM1, many others.


I recently switched to the wildly popular GM-1 that has available a 85mm prime lens,
and also a 90mm lens from Olympus. With that miniscule camera and a equally small
85mm prime lens I can finally shoot inconspicuously.


If they want to rescue the Q, its probably to late, as large sensor small cameras took over
the market, 1 1/2 inch sensor point and shoots, m4/3's such as the upcoming GM7 from
Panasonic will make it extremely hard for the small sensor Q to compete.


So basically the Q is a dead end, ...and a largely mismanaged product in my opinion.
You're aware of the 06 lens?
01-01-2016, 06:45 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by geomez Quote
You're aware of the 06 lens?

Of course I am, I own one.


It is the biggest lens in the Q lineup and the least suited to indoor candid photography.
Good outdoors, ...if someone needs the long reach. Indoors, where just a few added feet
of reach are needed its relative bulk and visibility defeats the purpose of a small
inconspicuous camera. At f.2.8 its not that fast either.


I bought the Q almost exclusively for its small size, hoping that sooner or later there would
be an equally small sized medium telephoto lens coming out. My assumption was reasonable,
most cameras have some prime glass in the 60-90mm range, and I thought a small relatively
fast telephoto prime would be a perfect complement to the miniscule spy-like size of the Q.


It never happened. Why is beyond me, that's why I call it mismanagement of a product.
01-01-2016, 07:05 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quser215 Quote
Of course I am, I own one.

It is the biggest lens in the Q lineup and the least suited to indoor candid photography.
Good outdoors, ...if someone needs the long reach. Indoors, where just a few added feet
of reach are needed its relative bulk and visibility defeats the purpose of a small
inconspicuous camera. At f.2.8 its not that fast either.

I bought the Q almost exclusively for its small size, hoping that sooner or later there would
be an equally small sized medium telephoto lens coming out. My assumption was reasonable,
most cameras have some prime glass in the 60-90mm range, and I thought a small relatively
fast telephoto prime would be a perfect complement to the miniscule spy-like size of the Q.

It never happened. Why is beyond me, that's why I call it mismanagement of a product.
Apparently we travel in different circles.

In the daze before auto-focus, I'd have a 50mm prime lens and a 70-200mm telephoto lens for my 35mm camera.

In more recent times, I'll have an 18-55mm (27-82mm "35mm equiv") and 70-300mm (105-450mm "35mm equiv") for my APS-C camera
With the exception of my 50mm prime lenses, I've never had a lens faster than f/2.8;
In fact, in my experience, the 06 is quite fast for its price range.

I can't image having a lens like you describe, so I guess if I worked for Pentax I would disappoint you also.
I'm sorry.
I apologize.

Last edited by reh321; 01-02-2016 at 05:07 PM.
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