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06-16-2016, 08:28 AM   #1
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Q pixel shift?

Just curious- can the pixel shift technology be applied to Q or Q-S1 size sensors in future cameras? Is it possible?

06-16-2016, 08:51 AM   #2
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It will be harder to do because q pixels are much smaller. Also the sensor shift mechanism looks a bit different than those on de dslrs.
06-16-2016, 09:43 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by NYNOIR Quote
Just curious- can the pixel shift technology be applied to Q or Q-S1 size sensors in future cameras? Is it possible?
I'm not sure it is practical, and I'm confident it wouldn't entice me to buy a new "Q".
EVF would entice me, improved Noise Reduction would entice me, but pixel shift would not.

But I'm just me.

I don't make a market.
06-16-2016, 09:58 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I'm not sure it is practical, and I'm confident it wouldn't entice me to buy a new "Q".
EVF would entice me, improved Noise Reduction would entice me, but pixel shift would not.

But I'm just me.

I don't make a market.
I'd have to agree. For now, my Q-S1 will do but if the Q line is to continue, an EVF should be part of the plan. Even if it's one of those small and relatively low-resolution units like in Panasonic's ZS/TZ100. At least enough to frame the shot in bright sunlight.

06-16-2016, 11:35 AM   #5
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Of course, "pixel shift" (more or less) can be done manually with any camera by taking slightly different multiple exposures and using stacking software. Having it built-in with precise shifting and auto-blending is nice, but achieving greater resolution via stacking is nothing new, and is not limited to cameras with built-in pixel shift. But I'd love to see it on a Q body. It would definitely nudge me to buy one. Hopefully it will be standard on all their bodies from now on...the question is will there be another Q?
06-16-2016, 05:35 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
Of course, "pixel shift" (more or less) can be done manually with any camera by taking slightly different multiple exposures and using stacking software.
Not really. The process you describe still interpolates the R,G and B from adjacent pixels, whereas pixel shift gives you 'true', or non-interpolated R, G and B for each pixel.

Cheers,
Terry
06-16-2016, 07:17 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by tduell Quote
Not really. The process you describe still interpolates the R,G and B from adjacent pixels, whereas pixel shift gives you 'true', or non-interpolated R, G and B for each pixel.
Thus the quotes and the phrase "more or less".

You'd have to take more frames to approach the same quality as the built-in, but stacking also gives you options such as doing it handheld with a fast shutter as a night shot noise-reduction technique that avoids the use of flash (although probably not on the Q), the possibility to remove people/objects that don't appear in all frames, etc. So the techniques are related but not the same -- both can increase resolution, color fidelity (despite interpolation), reduce noise, etc. (And could in-fact be combined, but that's probably overkill for most uses.)
06-16-2016, 09:33 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
Thus the quotes and the phrase "more or less".
Yes, I noted that, and reckon it's a long bow to lump them into the "more or less" same group.
No problem, we just have different views on this.

Cheers,
Terry

06-17-2016, 02:13 AM   #9
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Pixel shift will need better precision (from 4,87 micron pixel pitch in K-1 to 1,86 micron pixel pitch in Q-S1), but i think its doable and may come in a future Q camera.

The Q is not about low noise, its a daylight camera, and its difficult, close to impossible to improve noise performance notably without increasing the sensor size or build larger optics. So I cant say that I have high hopes for lower noise. Although it might get harder noise processing for jpegs. I'm not really a fan of ether jpeg or hard noise processing.

An EVF would excite me! Especially if they remove the screen to shrink the camera and include Wifi live thetering to phones
06-17-2016, 04:00 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
The Q is not about low noise, its a daylight camera
It will be better at it than a smart phone, it even has a secondary processing unit like the K-70



QuoteOriginally posted by ricoh:
Featuring the exclusive Q ENGINE as its imaging engine, the PENTAX Q-S1 not only assures extra-fine image description and efficient noise processing, but also provides a host of shooting and image-editing functions. This imaging engine is also the key to responsive, high-speed camera operation.
06-17-2016, 07:36 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
Pixel shift will need better precision (from 4,87 micron pixel pitch in K-1 to 1,86 micron pixel pitch in Q-S1), but i think its doable and may come in a future Q camera.

The Q is not about low noise, its a daylight camera, and its difficult, close to impossible to improve noise performance notably without increasing the sensor size or build larger optics. So I cant say that I have high hopes for lower noise. Although it might get harder noise processing for jpegs. I'm not really a fan of ether jpeg or hard noise processing.

An EVF would excite me! Especially if they remove the screen to shrink the camera and include Wifi live thetering to phones
We agree about EVF; we disagree about the other.

The times I would want pixel shifting are times I could take a K-mount camera instead.

My Q-7 goes everywhere with me, including shows like the "Straight No Chaser" Christmas show here last year.



Yes, I can spend time cleaning up the noise, but I personally believe that a "Q" has more future as a go-anywhere camera than as a landscape camera,
so building in some level of Noise Reduction{optional - level of control determined in menu system} makes sense.

YMMV
06-26-2016, 08:25 AM   #12
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You can achieve something similar with PhotoAcute Superesolution option, the latest version has added Pentax Q compatability... PhotoAcute :: Changes history . However, they recommend up to 16 images for each final super-res image, and on my i7 laptop they can take up to 10 minute each to process, so Pixel Shift would be much more convenient. But, as computers and image processing algorithms get more efficient, I suppose that will improve over time.
PS PhotoAcute has some interesting features like "Precise Radiometric Alignment" ( look here Precise radiometric alignment: Get consistent HDR images of scenes with moving objects and varying illumination. HDR images with no ghosts, misalignment and artefacts. )
06-26-2016, 09:23 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Scobra Quote
You can achieve something similar with PhotoAcute Superesolution option, the latest version has added Pentax Q compatability... PhotoAcute :: Changes history . However, they recommend up to 16 images for each final super-res image, and on my i7 laptop they can take up to 10 minute each to process, so Pixel Shift would be much more convenient. But, as computers and image processing algorithms get more efficient, I suppose that will improve over time.
PS PhotoAcute has some interesting features like "Precise Radiometric Alignment" ( look here Precise radiometric alignment: Get consistent HDR images of scenes with moving objects and varying illumination. HDR images with no ghosts, misalignment and artefacts. )
Unfortunately, PhotoAcute has been abandoned. Maybe he'll open-source it...
06-26-2016, 11:49 AM   #14
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The website is still selling copies of the program.. but if he doesnt keep adding new lens profiles, then I guess he has abandoned it. I see only one lens for the Q listed, though he claims some improvements can be made using generic settings. Who knows, maybe he's now working for Pentax Pixel Shift team!
06-26-2016, 12:26 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Scobra Quote
The website is still selling copies of the program.. but if he doesnt keep adding new lens profiles, then I guess he has abandoned it. I see only one lens for the Q listed, though he claims some improvements can be made using generic settings. Who knows, maybe he's now working for Pentax Pixel Shift team!
I think he just hasn't shut off the website sales system -- whether you can actually buy it or not I should think not (unless he tells you upfront you're not getting any updates ever). If you look at the forum you'll see he has announced he is no longer supporting it -- that was at least a year ago...
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