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07-02-2016, 08:58 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
I do believe if read correctly I used the term OP considering YOU are not the OP then no it was not directed at you.
Yes, but I do not see where the OP, or anyone else besides me, brought up shipping labels being placed on retail packages. Hence my confusion. My apologies.

07-02-2016, 11:40 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Transit Quote
In a world wracked with strife and tragedy, you are worried about that !
QuoteOriginally posted by Transit Quote
Originally posted by pleitzxcan Quote Any thoughts? In a world wracked with strife and tragedy, you are worried about that !
Indeed, were I to have believed that my trivial consumer woes would preoccupy your efforts towards worldwide tranquility, I certainly would have made a more educated purchase. I will certainly consider this in my shopping habits in the future. But, for now, by all means, party on Garth.
07-03-2016, 01:14 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
That's the thing the ranting OP fails to realize that the product he illustrates with his photos is in a manner that is normally packaged by the Manufacturer. He also fails to mention if the package was sealed with the manufactures standard seal or showed signs of prior opening. Then knowing items are NOT shipped by just slapping a label on the manufacturers box and sending them off he fails to show what OTHER box and packaging B&H used with the shipping.
This is a strawman argument. I posted no pictures of the exterior box because it was not something with which I took issue. Were there signs of damage to the exterior boxing, I would would have taken issue with the parcel service.

"He also fails to mention if the package was sealed with the manufactures standard seal...."

If you read my original post, rather than "ranting," I was attempting to utilize this forum (a place or opportunity for discussing a subject, Merriam-Websters Dictionary Online) to increase my knowledge (in this particular circumstance, packaging of this product when new from persons who have experience with this product). So, your statement here is actually instructive to that end. Perhaps you have a photograph or can point me to a photograph of this or a similar product "sealed" and specifically bearing "the manufacturer's standard seal." This information would be useful to someone attempting to utilize a forum to gain knowledge and experience so that one can reinspect for this and look for the same in future purchases. I assume it is apparent that the photographs I displayed here did not bear such "standard seal" or you would have pointed to the obvious flaw in my opinions. You might also consider the possibility that the absence of such indicia of a seal in my photographs is not the result of any attempt at deception on my part, but instead a sign that either I was not aware of this feature, or in fact it is missing from the place it should be located,such that a photograph would not be possible or it's significance not realized.

If I began to "rant," then I suspect it is sufficiently clear this reaction is responsive to certain commenters taking liberties to distort my purpose into some kind of attack of a sacred cow. It is unclear to me how a forum benefits from attacking a person seeking information or a shared experience, but, suffice to say there are ample number here who would disagree with this notion.

Whatever your purpose in making the statements that you made, you have, even if inadvertently, provided the opportunity for a learning experience for me and perhaps a multitude of others. If you would be so kind as to share your knowledge as to the specifics of the features of the "standard sealing" and "manufacturer's standard seal" I would be greatly appreciative.

---------- Post added 07-03-16 at 01:26 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pleitzxcan Quote
showed signs of prior opening.
Additionally, I think it is clear that you hold some opinion about situations in which "signs of prior opening" are apparent. To the extent that either my photographs and/or my descriptions of the item I received are deficient in describing signs of prior opening, I would kindly ask that you share your knowledge and/or experiences to sharpen the eyes of those who may be looking for such signs in camera products they receive through the mail.
07-03-2016, 06:04 AM - 1 Like   #34
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Let's see as of my posting, 48 posts you've made in this forum consisting a majority of A. either items for sale/sold or B. product complaints. I think I get a pretty clear Idea of at this point that anything myself or anyone else not in agreement with you is wasting their precious time, so Buh Bye. Consider yourself the second person I have added to ignore in this forum.

07-03-2016, 06:55 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by pleitzxcan Quote
I was attempting to utilize this forum (a place or opportunity for discussing a subject, Merriam-Websters Dictionary Online) to increase my knowledge (in this particular circumstance, packaging of this product when new from persons who have experience with this product).
QuoteOriginally posted by pleitzxcan Quote
It is unclear to me how a forum benefits from attacking a person seeking information or a shared experience, but, suffice to say there are ample number here who would disagree with this notion.
I don't think we've seen your posts as an attempt to "increase your knowledge" concerning packing a new product; rather jumping to conclusions that your received product had to be used, rather than new! If you had waited until after you discussed this with B&H, and got no satisfaction, then complaining here would be the second step; not the first. You've not given B&H an opportunity to deal with you. You complained that they haven't replied to your e-mail; depending on the day you sent it, they could be closed because of their religion. There is also a B&H thread here on the forums, specifically for reaching out to B&H, with a B&H representative/member there to assist, and answer your questions.

Secondly, no one is attacking you; rather your thread is about attacking a company simply because you "think" the product received wasn't new because the bubble wrap was torn, and the cap came loose. As I said previously; if anything, it might be sloppy handling in the packing room; which can happen anywhere, any time!

We are very fortunate to have representatives from both B&H and Adorama here on the forums as members that go the extra mile to help their customers; but only if you bother to reach out to them; as they cannot possibly read each thread on the forum.

Last edited by csa; 07-03-2016 at 07:13 AM.
07-03-2016, 07:49 AM   #36
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Some companies have sort of 'gone green' and reuse packaging which means that some of the packing, like filler packing in the box 'around the other box' might be reused. A tear in new bubble wrap can happen to it as its being cut off a roll. Unless everyone in the packing process and shipping process is interviewed who knows what happened? If the entire product and the wrapping and shipping bothers you send it back before the time is up for sending it back. It could of been sent back and resolved by now.
07-03-2016, 09:55 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by pleitzxcan Quote
If you read my original post, rather than "ranting," I was attempting to utilize this forum (a place or opportunity for discussing a subject, Merriam-Websters Dictionary Online) to increase my knowledge (in this particular circumstance, packaging of this product when new from persons who have experience with this product).
In Internet forum parlance, a rant is a post of complaint (usually long-winded) where it is is uncertain/unlikely that the post will produce any relief or satisfaction to the complainant. It may progress to a mindless rant if the complaint is unreasonable. Both are related to "whining".* (Not too far from Merriam-Webster's version: Rant v.) /mild_sarcasm]

BTW...Any word yet from B&H? It would appear your options are:
  • Return the item for credit (you pay shipping both ways)
  • Ask for an exchange due to evidence of previous use
  • Keep the item and issue a charge back on your credit card
  • Let be
Let us know what the outcome is.


Steve

* Participating or commenting on a rant is roughly comparable to being in the audience at a gladiatorial contest, but where sympathy and "baiting" are mixed in with the occasional honest attempt to help.
07-03-2016, 10:11 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by csa Quote
If you had waited until after you discussed this with B&H, and got no satisfaction, then complaining here would be the second step; not the first.
Sorry to say, but this pretty much nails it.

FWIW...If it had been my purchase, I would probably not be happy either and may well have asked for an exchange. You are within your rights to do so. Shop-worn items do (rarely) make their way back into the warehouse and into the online purchase flow. Fortunately the better online merchants are usually very good at taking care of such when it happens.


Steve

07-03-2016, 10:30 AM   #39
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FWIW...there has been some discussion on this thread regarding factory seal. I am in the habit of keeping the original boxes and packing materials for my photo purchases. I went back through those just now and found no evidence of any seals having been used on any of my Pentax or other brand camera/lens purchases. I also know for a fact that none had shrink-wrap over the factory boxes (the unboxing photos are somewhere).

As an aside, the worst packaging I have every had was my LZOS MC Jupiter-9 85/2 purchased in 2008 from rugift.com. Their business model is such that the lens was shipped as a gift from my new friend in Moscow who was responsible for the actual purchase and packaging. As per the norm at that time the shipping box was received about a month later wrapped in butcher paper and bound with twine. Inside the shipping box I found the jewel-case for the lens (empty except for the inspection certificate), many wads of Moscow newspaper, the lens front cap, and the lens itself with not even a plastic bag for protection. Why it was outside the retail packaging (the jewel-case) is anyone's guess. Fortunately the lens was fine (built like a tank), if a little filthy with newsprint ink.

I complained to rugift and they responded with a credit against a future purchase which I applied to my KMZ MC Zenitar 16/2.8 fisheye. That purchase was an adventure too, but another story.


Steve

(...love all my FSU glass...)
07-03-2016, 11:14 AM   #40
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True, looking at my Pentax boxes none have contained the small tape seal I have usually encountered with other purchases.
07-03-2016, 11:34 AM   #41
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Ditto on the lack of seals on any of my Pentax lens and cameras boxes. Never seen one shrink wrapped either. Also, those white plastic press in body caps are not particularly secure.
07-03-2016, 01:26 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
Let's see as of my posting, 48 posts you've made in this forum consisting a majority of A. either items for sale/sold or B. product complaints. I think I get a pretty clear Idea of at this point that anything myself or anyone else not in agreement with you is wasting their precious time, so Buh Bye. Consider yourself the second person I have added to ignore in this forum.
It had occurred to me as well to look at the posting history and subsequently I came to the same (inevitable) conclusion: not worth debating with ...
07-03-2016, 08:15 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by csa Quote
If you had waited until after you discussed this with B&H, and got no satisfaction, then complaining here would be the second step; not the first.
"Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases. Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman." Louis Brandeis, (1914)

Deterrence: the act of making someone decide not to do something : the act of preventing a particular act or behavior from happening. (Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary).

Of what benefit is it to me or anyone else that I obtain relief privately; suppressing the act whence a remedy is required for atonement? The process you describe and defend so ardently features a primary purpose of shielding both the act and actor from additional scrutiny.

I am not convinced that your method is either the most efficient or effective method of prevention. Even if your method is the easiest solution for my immediate concern, it does little to contribute to preventing the circumstance from arising again in the future for me or someone else.

"You complained that they have not responded to your e-mail."

Again, you are incorrect. A simple reading of my statement regarding the e-mail will reveal that I merely correcting your uninformed and incorrect presumption that I did not contact B & H. Furthermore, I merely stated a fact that I had not received a response to my e-mail. Not to be outdone, you then create an excuse for the lack of response by assuming that I sent my e-mail during publicly known non-business hours. Of course, you are incorrect again, not that your assumptions had any basis other than mere conjecture. Please don't bother to let the facts get in the way of your narrative.
07-03-2016, 08:25 PM   #44
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BuhBye!
07-03-2016, 10:02 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by csa Quote
BuhBye!
Good riddance. You really should stick to picking off low hanging fruit. Now we can get down to a real discussion about the original topic without CSA's Ad Hominem Attacks

---------- Post added 07-03-16 at 10:16 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
Consider yourself the second person I have added to ignore in this forum.
I'm greatly honored. Who was the other person who called you out on your nonsense. I will say that I find it surprising that there are not more in your 1,189 posts. Have you checked to see if anyone is actually reading them? It cold be that you have annoyed so many people with your nonsensical posts that only newcomers are not aware of your attacks on legitimate questions followed by nonsensical and false statements. Perhaps no one disagrees with you because most have blocked you, save a few newcomers, like myself, who did not know any better.

---------- Post added 07-03-16 at 10:22 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by newmikey Quote
Originally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote Let's see as of my posting, 48 posts you've made in this forum consisting a majority of A. either items for sale/sold or B. product complaints. I think I get a pretty clear Idea of at this point that anything myself or anyone else not in agreement with you is wasting their precious time, so Buh Bye. Consider yourself the second person I have added to ignore in this forum. It had occurred to me as well to look at the posting history and subsequently I came to the same (inevitable) conclusion: not worth debating with ..
You need not outrun the bear chasing after you; you need only outrun the guy who is running with you. Oldbayrunner is a good slow choice.
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