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09-10-2016, 06:37 PM   #46
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Q Can Do

Q2:
• Larger sensor, new mount;
• M42-style adapter mounts Q lenses;
• Crop mode Q lenses;
• outsource same lens designs to Tokina, scaled up in CAD;
• You have an LCD - Buy an EVF from somebody;
• Cram as many dSLR features in as possible

Do your video here and shake things up!!!


Last edited by monochrome; 09-10-2016 at 06:47 PM.
09-10-2016, 06:38 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
....
The sales people at my local camera store admit that the Q series was interesting but that it has been overrun by cell phones which now have similar abilities. They no longer have any of the Q series in stock and will only bring it in as a special order item.
Reportedly the "Q" was aimed at the Japanese schoolgirl market. For some time now, it has been obvious that the "Q" was in a losing battle against smart phones. A big strength of ILCs is their flexibility - the option of changing characteristics by changing available lenses, something not currently an alternative for the average smart phone. The obvious niche for the "Q" family has been the one where the Canon SX-50 and Nikon P-900 have been so successful, but Pentax has never been willing to take that step. I am disappointed, but it doesn't really affect me. I have a Q-7 and I have assembled an ecosystem to accomplish my goals. Hopefully this camera will last as long as I need it {I'm 68 right now}, but I could always buy another one to keep in reserve, so ultimately their failure of vision affects them a lot more than it affects me. I'm disappointed, but I've heard many here say those same words about other steps taken by Pentax.
09-11-2016, 04:56 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Reportedly the "Q" was aimed at the Japanese schoolgirl market. For some time now, it has been obvious that the "Q" was in a losing battle against smart phones.
For that market, the Q is an extra accessory, not a substitute for a smartphone.
Like the "Hello Kitty" cameras that Fuji produce:



(Photo taken with the 06 on a Q7!)
09-11-2016, 10:24 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
For that market, the Q is an extra accessory, not a substitute for a smartphone.
Like the "Hello Kitty" cameras that Fuji produce:
Kind of off topic, but I don't think the Q system was aimed at the Japanese schoolgirl market. The system was heavily marketed toward so-called "camera joshi" (camera girls) in Japan, but those "girls" are mostly young, adult females, not schoolgirls.

For example watch this official PENTAX promo video of the original Q:

Calm narrator, calm music, hand of the model at 00:13 without any bling and even without colored nail polish (compare that with the girl in your picture, lytrytyr), relatively simple but nice clothes of the models at 1:54 and 2:50, stylish purse at 3:03. Everything in this video is so NON-schoolgirl, at least in Japan.

Google will find you countless blogs and articles and promotion materials of camera joshi and Q, here are two examples:
Q-STYLE : PENTAX Q
SHIPS MAG vol.7 | PENTAX×SHIPS - PENTAX Q10

09-12-2016, 02:22 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Q2:
(...)
• outsource same lens designs to Tokina, scaled up in CAD;
(...)
I don't understand this part since:

- Copal is the manufacturer of the Q lenses
- You can't scale up lens designs.
09-12-2016, 04:24 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
I don't understand this part since:

- Copal is the manufacturer of the Q lenses
- You can't scale up lens designs.
1. Brain error - I knew it was cold
2. OK - but the concept is simply to make a large Q. Is that a reasonable idea or will dual lens smartphones replace everything?
09-12-2016, 06:52 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by kwb Quote
Kind of off topic, but I don't think the Q system was aimed at the Japanese schoolgirl market. The system was heavily marketed toward so-called "camera joshi" (camera girls) in Japan, but those "girls" are mostly young, adult females, not schoolgirls.
Please don't take us too literally.
I read @reh321's phrase "Japanese schoolgirl" as an English version of "カメラ ジョシ",
(where "school" may also mean "university").
BTW, the subject of my photo is actually a young adult Korean female.
09-12-2016, 06:53 AM - 1 Like   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
1. Brain error - I knew it was cold
2. OK - but the concept is simply to make a large Q. Is that a reasonable idea or will dual lens smartphones replace everything?
I'm afraid there is very little room for interchangeable lens cameras with a sensor smaller than 4/3". Samsung NX Mini is out of the picture and Nikon are said to have abandoned their 1/CX line.

09-12-2016, 07:06 AM   #54
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it is clear that lens designers have a lot more flexibility if the lens is in direct contact with the sensor. One only need look at the diminutive DxO One f/1.8 lens to see how this could change our industry. Personally I'm ready for a new kind of "out of the box thinking" camera system: one where the sensor is part of the LENS not the body. And the body is simply the storage/control/battery framework for said lens. Want an upgraded sensor? Send your lens in for an update. Will CaNikon do something like this? Unlikely. But perhaps someone like Sony could pull this off since they have a big chunk of the sensor business...

Michael
09-12-2016, 07:08 AM   #55
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Eh, both of those statements are pretty substantial simplificaitons.

Copal is primarily a specialist shutter manufacturer, supplying in-camera shutters for most of the major manufacturers (Ricoh/Pentax included) and is IIRC the only maker of in-lens leaf shutters left (they make them for Mamiya, Hasselblad, and various LF lenses too). The Q lenses are leaf shutter designs, and as such, Copal produces the mechanics for the Q lenses and perhaps performs the final assembly, but they almost assuredly do not make the glass, which it is probably safe to speculate is either supplied directly by Ricoh or farmed out to a glass foundry in their supply chain.

Optical designs absolutely can be scaled up in size more or less directly, if you don't mind accepting geometric changes in other parameters such as mass, volume, etc. as well as corresponding scaling of lens aberrations. Here is a nice post outlining the relation of the various parameters to each other.

The difficulty in scaling in this case would stem more from the mechanical portion, as things like friction resistance in the leaf shutters (which are notoriously finicky) would not scale linearly, and thus would require more in-depth re-engineering.

Now if you wanted to keep absolute (as opposed to relative) focal length and max aperture the same as on the original lenses, it would be a different story, as it would require substantial redesign of the optical blocks.


QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
I don't understand this part since:

- Copal is the manufacturer of the Q lenses
- You can't scale up lens designs.
09-12-2016, 07:17 AM   #56
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Copal are not only manufacturing (assembling, should you prefer) the Q lenses with a built-in leaf shutter but also the so-called 'toy lenses' which are devoid of any shutter.

Of course they don't make the glass. Many lens manufacturers don't either: they buy it from Schott, Hoya,...
09-12-2016, 08:28 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
Personally I'm ready for a new kind of "out of the box thinking" camera system: one where the sensor is part of the LENS not the body. And the body is simply the storage/control/battery framework for said lens.
Here you go:

Ricoh GXR - Ricoh Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Cameras - Pentax Camera Reviews and Specifications

---------- Post added 09-12-16 at 10:39 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
I'm afraid there is very little room for interchangeable lens cameras with a sensor smaller than 4/3". Samsung NX Mini is out of the picture and Nikon are said to have abandoned their 1/CX line.
Competitors dropping out makes more room, not less.

And just as the Leica, almost 100 years ago,
opened up new possibilities of discreetness, expanded DoF,
and a better equation for low light work,
when compared to the "quality" sensors of its day (MF and up),
the Pentax Q system has the potential to do the same today
with its tiny, high-grade optics and BSI 1/1.7" sensors.

This is a whole different market from the "Hello Kitty" crowd,
and of course it's not clear if Pentax is ready to realize that potential,
just like they didn't recognize the potential in their 4/3 system when they had it,
eventually leaving the field to Olympus and the rest.

Last edited by lytrytyr; 09-12-2016 at 08:41 AM.
09-12-2016, 09:08 AM   #58
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Ahead of its time. Time to revisit this especially given that sensor IQ is starting to "plateau".

M
09-12-2016, 09:16 AM   #59
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GXR has dropped out long ago. Not very succesfull at all (outside Japan). Never coming back I think.

Others are dropping out because the market is disappearing faster then they thought. Not leaving much extra market for a totally different system as Q. With systems going out of the market, people think twice before adopting a new one.
09-12-2016, 10:15 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Others are dropping out because the market is disappearing faster then they thought. Not leaving much extra market for a totally different system as Q. With systems going out of the market, people think twice before adopting a new one.
Ron, markets are created by successful enterprises.
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