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09-12-2016, 10:43 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Ron, markets are created by successful enterprises.
We agree on this!

09-12-2016, 10:59 AM - 1 Like   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Here you go:

Competitors dropping out makes more room, not less.
In much the same way that those off the Titanic in the first life boats left room.
09-12-2016, 01:11 PM   #63
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Hmmm.... maybe the new mini-MILC will be a smartphone with dual lenses + clip on lenses + advanced JPG engines. Companies like Apple are investing megabucks into their camera tech and I will guess that the amount of investment is far more than what Ricoh has made for the Q family since initial release.
09-12-2016, 01:33 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
Hmmm.... maybe the new mini-MILC will be a smartphone with dual lenses + clip on lenses + advanced JPG engines. Companies like Apple are investing megabucks into their camera tech and I will guess that the amount of investment is far more than what Ricoh has made for the Q family since initial release.
And many users don't need to use really long lenses, a tripod and/or an EVF {yes, I know, Pentax never got around to doing that for the "Q" either}

added: and Ricoh-Pentax apparently wasn't interested in investing the market-development resources needed to compete against the Canikon bridge cameras.


Last edited by reh321; 09-12-2016 at 01:35 PM. Reason: added comment
09-12-2016, 02:01 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
In much the same way that those off the Titanic in the first life boats left room.
But Fuji gains from Pentax and Samsung abandoning the APS-C mirrorless market.
09-12-2016, 02:34 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
But Fuji gains from Pentax and Samsung abandoning the APS-C mirrorless market.
Uhhhhhhh we are in the Q section......
09-12-2016, 03:15 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Uhhhhhhh we are in the Q section......
Yes, but other players neglecting the small-sensor ILC market
has been used to suggest that there's no future for the Q.
The "Titanic" argument.
I don't think that argument applies,
and the APS-C MILC experience shows why.

---------- Post added 09-12-16 at 05:21 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Ricoh-Pentax apparently wasn't interested in investing the market-development resources needed to compete against the Canikon bridge cameras.
Professional users of those cameras have shown the viability of modern small sensors,
but those cameras are not the direct competitors of the Q system.
09-12-2016, 04:35 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
and the APS-C MILC experience shows why.
.
I for one, and probably others fail to understand your analogy or the relevance to APS-C sensors in this discussion. Are you alluding to a reduction in market share for APS-C sensors or what is it you are trying to say?

09-13-2016, 01:57 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
I for one, and probably others fail to understand your analogy or the relevance to APS-C sensors in this discussion. Are you alluding to a reduction in market share for APS-C sensors or what is it you are trying to say?
@Mistral75 made this argument:
QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
I'm afraid there is very little room for interchangeable lens cameras with a sensor smaller than 4/3". Samsung NX Mini is out of the picture and Nikon are said to have abandoned their 1/CX line.
In other words (if I'm understanding that post correctly),
the prospects for the Pentax Q system are necessarily bad
because Samsung and Nikon are giving up on small-sensor MILCs,
.
I don't believe this argument,
and to show why, I'm using the example of APS-C MILCs,
where Fuji is relatively successful after Pentax and Samsung quit that market.
09-13-2016, 02:36 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
@Mistral75 made this argument:


In other words (if I'm understanding that post correctly),
the prospects for the Pentax Q system are necessarily bad
because Samsung and Nikon are giving up on small-sensor MILCs,
.
I don't believe this argument,
and to show why, I'm using the example of APS-C MILCs,
where Fuji is relatively successful after Pentax and Samsung quit that market.

The difference is that Fujifilm has the interest and commitment in marketing their products where as for over 20 years Pentax has not. Fuji has the ability to keep a particular sensor format afloat even when others bail out (I have not read that Pentax is dropping the APS-C sensor. Is this news?) Fuji has over 430 pros all over the world and an undisclosed number of highly skilled amateurs who test and provide feedback of their products and Fuji listens to them. The very day the Fuji X-T2 was announced over two dozen Youtube videos were available extoling the virtues of the new camera from the folks who had been testing that camera and more since then. Before the product was delivered (September 8th 2016) those people were also providing information to the forums about the new camera and building up anticipation. Thatís marketing! What does Pentax do? Not much! Can Pentax keep the small sensor ship afloat by themselves or not. NO! They do not even service their distribution network here in the United States. The Pentax dealer closest to me claims they have not seen a Pentax representative in over six months and possibly longer. The Q series was OK for itís time though many folks/reviewers ignored it's strengths and focused on it's weaknesses, but like all of their products Pentax did poor marketing to anywhere other than Japan. Like I have said before, given their track record, Pentax would have difficulty in marketing ice in the desert. They may want to build products but leave the marketing and spreading the word about these products up to forums such as this and other cost free sources. If you've ever been in retailing you know that if nobody knows about the product then nobody is going to buy it. And if nobody is going to buy it then Pentax will not make it past their initial commitment time.
09-13-2016, 03:39 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
....
(I have not read that Pentax is dropping the APS-C sensor. Is this news?).
The wording of his post implies that Pentax has dropped the K-0n line.
Based on construction of the K-70, I believe it is premature to assume there won't be a K-02
09-13-2016, 03:57 PM - 1 Like   #72
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Blame it all on HOYA!
09-13-2016, 08:17 PM - 1 Like   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The wording of his post implies that Pentax has dropped the K-0n line.
Based on construction of the K-70, I believe it is premature to assume there won't be a K-02
When Pentax stopped their APS-C MILC efforts, they argued that their mirrorless future was the Q system:

"#10. What is your view of the mirrorless ILC market, including cameras with Micro Four Thirds and APS-C sensors?

Our answer for mirrorless is the Q mount system, as we think that the basis of mirrorless is more with compactness than quality images, so at this moment with continue the Q series for mirrorless models, to provide bodies with compactness."

PF Interview with Ricoh Imaging at Photokina 2014 - Photokina 2014 | PentaxForums.com

Although from today's perspective, that little weasel phrase "at this moment" takes on a sinister new meaning.

---------- Post added 09-13-16 at 10:20 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
videos were available extoling the virtues of the new camera from the folks who had been testing that camera
Bless his heart, Blunty tried!
09-13-2016, 09:10 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWRailman Quote
The very day the Fuji X-T2 was announced over two dozen Youtube videos were available extoling the virtues of the new camera from the folks who had been testing that camera and more since then.
Thought I'd compare the number of X-T2 videos to the two latest Pentax DSLRs...
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09-14-2016, 08:40 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Thought I'd compare the number of X-T2 videos to the two latest Pentax DSLRs...
First you need to remember that both Pentax cameras have been out and in the hands of shooters for much longer then the Fuji X-T2. More videos for the X-T2 are now becoming available as photographers not graced by beta copies from Fuji are getting theirs through normal distribution channels. (Remember the body just started shipping 6 days ago.) Of course Tony did his review by using corporate shots of the camera and before he had one in hand but I do not put any value on his camera review videos anyway as he did two on the Pentax K-1 and I'm still not sure whether he liked the camera or not. However, if you add the videos available for the Fuji X-Pro 2 which was released about 6 months ago and has the same sensor and processor as the X-T2 the numbers jump significantly.


I wonder how many of those Youtube videos for the Pentax Cameras were generated by Pentax themselves.
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