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11-27-2018, 04:18 PM   #46
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Thanks for such an interesting article and info Geo. With this "You shouldn't bother about the Q IR-filter" are you saying it isn't necessary and doesn't work as well as with the NX mini?
Incidentally - what did M42 Orion Nebula do to upset you
Dave

11-27-2018, 08:07 PM - 1 Like   #47
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Found a page describing how to remove the IR filter from a Q. You may need to run this through google translate if you dont read Japanese.

Part 1
http://app.f.m-cocolog.jp/t/typecast/1715729/1725916/93113796

Part 2
http://app.f.m-cocolog.jp/t/typecast/1715729/1725916/107334585

Part 3
http://snap.nophotonolife.com/?p=1920



Last edited by 2old4toys; 11-27-2018 at 08:48 PM.
11-28-2018, 12:28 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by geo444 Quote
.
The Pentax Q(x) with their tiny sensors are Not at their best for Wide Field Astro-Photography
for Wide Field, you'd better use an APS-C (or a FF) sensor !
+ you'd find more choice in (Ultra-)Wide-Angle lenses for large sensors (Samy)

But the Pentax Q(x) with their tiny sensors are at their Best for Long Reach Astro-Photography
Why ?
Simply because thousands of Deep Sky Small Objects will Never fill an APS-C sensor !
Even mounted on a very affordable SkyWatcher 1000mm Newtonian !
+ these tiny sensors are Very Sensitive ~ DxO ISO 5680 FF-Equivalent for the 1/2.3" in the Pentax Q, Q10 !

a Pentax Q10 w/ the Pentax Adapter on a Skywatcher 200/1000 Newtonian :
= 50 x 30 seconds @ ISO 1600 stacked with DSS 3.2
it's Messier 27 Nebula at 1350 L-Y :



Other (9) Long Reach Astro-Photographies taken with a Pentax Q10 :
The Astro-Q Club! - Page 10 - PentaxForums.com

Good Luck !
Are you using the Q as "prime focus" or "projection" ? I'm assuming the former.
11-29-2018, 09:29 AM - 1 Like   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2old4toys Quote
Found a page describing how to remove the IR filter from a Q. You may need to run this through google translate if you dont read Japanese.

Part 1
?Q???????IR???????????: ?????

Part 2
??????Q?????: ?????

Part 3
http://snap.nophotonolife.com/?p=1920

Good find! This removes the IR cut filter by literally cutting out the glass! I was hoping that someone figured out a way to remove the whole retaining frame that the IR glass sits in .. to avoid the broken glass mess!
In any case it's the retaining frame that is in the way of my 220 FE lens to focus to infinity.

02-14-2019, 09:48 PM - 1 Like   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by geo444 Quote
.
The Pentax Q(x) with their tiny sensors are Not at their best for Wide Field Astro-Photography
for Wide Field, you'd better use an APS-C (or a FF) sensor !
+ you'd find more choice in (Ultra-)Wide-Angle lenses for large sensors (Samy)

But the Pentax Q(x) with their tiny sensors are at their Best for Long Reach Astro-Photography
Why ?
Simply because thousands of Deep Sky Small Objects will Never fill an APS-C sensor !
Even mounted on a very affordable SkyWatcher 1000mm Newtonian !
+ these tiny sensors are Very Sensitive ~ DxO ISO 5680 FF-Equivalent for the 1/2.3" in the Pentax Q, Q10 !

a Pentax Q10 w/ the Pentax Adapter on a Skywatcher 200/1000 Newtonian :
= 50 x 30 seconds @ ISO 1600 stacked with DSS 3.2
it's Messier 27 Nebula at 1350 L-Y :



Other (9) Long Reach Astro-Photographies taken with a Pentax Q10 :
The Astro-Q Club! - Page 10 - PentaxForums.com

Good Luck !
geo444: Was M27 taken in prime focus? And how were you guiding? I have Baader Hyperions with adapters to use the Q10 afocal ( imaging through the eyepiece) on either my 8SE or Astrotech72mm.


Awesome images by the way. You certainly figured it out!
02-15-2019, 08:08 AM - 1 Like   #51
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@gcisko you might find this Fuji fisheye lens interesting for all sky photography. It is scavenged from old security cameras. Paid ~$70 for it. Absolutely love it. It requires a C mount to Q adapter. There is no shutter so the Q will revert to the electronic one. Unfortunately this imposes a 2 second max shutter speed. But, the Fuji is f1.8 so it should be workable. Lenses is fixed focused, but can be fine tuned by slightly unscrewing from C mount adapter. Probably 1/2 a millimeter is all that is ever needed. Nice, sharp, and cheap! Plus looks so cool on a Q! This will also fit micro 4/3 bodies and give a full circle image.
Adapted lenses tested on the Q : the reference thread - Page 73 - PentaxForums.com

Thanks,
barondla
02-18-2019, 04:20 AM - 2 Likes   #52
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Pentax Q & Q10 : IR-cut Filter Removal !

QuoteOriginally posted by dc1500 Quote
Thanks for such an interesting article and info Geo...
With " You shouldn't bother about the Q IR-filter " are you saying it isn't necessary and doesn't work as well as with the NX mini ?
.
Thanks DC ! Sorry, apologies for the delay...
All the Photos Posted on Chassimages have been lost... and I sold my Macro Bellows 4 years ago...
Took me a long time to make a Drawing, I hope everyone will find it clear ?

Here, things are Not Simple at all !
From Buldings Crashing down after some rain... to Yellow Jackets...
Crashed Buildings were Newer than where I live !

I just meant it was as simple as for the NX-mini to Remove the IR-Filter on Q, Q10 !

/!\ The photo posted by 2old4toys is somewhat misleading :
- you have to Cut the Box at 1,1 mm from its Edges to Avoid Breaking the Filter,
your Sensor'll be full of Glass Crumbs !

My Howto / DiY page " Remove Q10 IR-cut Filter " not totally finished, but at least online :
Pentax Q, Q10, most Sensitive sensors ILC
You just need a Cutter + some time...
is my Drawing Clear ?

Compare the Sensitivity of Sensors per Area, 2 methods :
Camera Sensor Comparison Tools
Litho+Etch Precision increase Sensitivity

The only hope to go over the 30 sec. Stupid Limitation of the Q, Q10, Q7... :
Pentax-Q10-v1.03-FirmWare-Disassembly
Disassembling is only the very First Step...
... who knows a "C" Decompiler suitable for MIPS RISC Processors ?

QuoteOriginally posted by dc1500 Quote
Are you using the Q as "prime focus" or "projection" ? I'm assuming the former.
.
You're right, it's Prime Focus : many other infos to find on my DPReview Galleries :
geo444: Galleries: Digital Photography Review : Digital Photography Review

QuoteOriginally posted by gcisko Quote
geo444: Was M27 taken in prime focus? And how were you guiding ?... I have Baader Hyperions with adapters to use the Q10 afocal ( imaging through the eyepiece ) on either my 8SE or Astrotech 72mm... Awesome images by the way. You certainly figured it out !
Yes Gcisko, all my AstroPhotos taken in prime focus.
I'm Guiding with a ToUCam Philips mounted on the SkyWatcher finderscope
SoftWare is PHD from StarkLabs
If you are able to achieve a Reliable Station Setting, it's not necessary for 30 sec. subs ?

I never tried afocal, you should, just to get an idea on the results ?
Thanks Gcisko !
02-18-2019, 05:54 PM - 1 Like   #53
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The photo of the Q sensor with the IR filter removed is very informative as is the drawings you made. Much appreciated! Do you need to lay a replacement pane of glass where the Ir cut filter was to regain infinity focus with PQ lenses for daytime IR photography? Or is it not an issue for you as manual focusing is possible on lenses or telescopes you use that twist beyond the usual infinity?

Encouraging and now looking for another Q for IR modding. Knowing now that cutting the plastic shroud for the sensor is sufficient, a very simple procedure vs many other cameras IR filter removals. (Thank heavens your process does not involve actual broken glass).

Thanks again for sharing. I think this opens the door for many Q owners on this forum to mod their Qs, though market for 2nd hand Qs are going to become more rare as a result.

02-19-2019, 05:10 AM - 1 Like   #54
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Pentax Q & Q10 : IR-cut Filter Removal !

QuoteOriginally posted by 2old4toys Quote
The photo of the Q sensor with the IR filter removed is very informative as is the drawings you made. Much appreciated !... (Thank heavens your process does not involve actual broken glass)... Thanks again for sharing.
.
Hi 2old4toys ! Many Thanks for your encouraging kind words !

QuoteOriginally posted by 2old4toys Quote
Do you need to lay a replacement pane of glass where the Ir cut filter was to regain infinity focus with PQ lenses for daytime IR photography ? Or is it not an issue for you as manual focusing is possible on lenses or telescopes you use that twist beyond the usual infinity ?
.
I think you'll have to make a Definitive / Irreversible Choice :
Remove its IR-cut filter... and your Q, Q10 is definitely Dedicated to Astrophoto !
Manual Focus is the usual way for AP...
Not an issue !

QuoteOriginally posted by 2old4toys Quote
Encouraging and now looking for another Q for IR modding. Knowing now that cutting the plastic shroud for the sensor is sufficient, a very simple procedure vs many other cameras IR filter removals. (Thank heavens your process does not involve actual broken glass) I think this opens the door for many Q owners on this forum to mod their Q’s, though market for 2nd hand Q’s are going to become more rare as a result.
.
Before making a Definitive / Irreversible Choice by maiming your Q, Q10
I suggest you and every Pentaxian interested in Astrophoto AND/OR in Landscape IR PhotoGraphy
Please... Read Carefully my page about the NX mini
Samsung-NX-mini-TOP-Infra-Red-ILC

+ NX-mini are easy to find at $100€ or less
+ NX-mini IR-cut removal is 100% Fully Reversible
+ NX-mini's AF is still 100% Reliable after its IR-cut removal
>> that opens to you the door to Fantastic Hand-Held Terrestrial IR PhotoGraphy -vs-
with the IR-Cut in place + a R72 Filter you're restricted to High-ISO-Tripod :
landscape-IR-photography - Google Search
Best 25+ Infrared Photography ideas on Pinterest | Pink trees, Beautiful nature spring
+ NX-mini's Wider Sensor mounted on a 800 mm will cover Veil Nebula's 2 parts :
Photos tagged with "nx-mini": Galleries: Digital Photography Review
+ NX-mini's Bigger Pixels are Far Less Demanding from Atmosphere Stability :
M1 Crab Pentax Q10: geo444: Galleries: Digital Photography Review
+ NX-mini's Bigger Pixels are Far Less Demanding on Eq-Mount-Precision :
Pentax Q, Q10, most Sensitive sensor ILC
+ NX-mini can hold 240 seconds Exposures !
+ NX-mini's LENR is Fully Cancelable !
+ NX-mini's Huge Battery will last a Winter-Night long !
+ NX-mini's Wired Remote Controls are easy to find at $25€ or less
+++ I'll write 1 page : How to add a T2-Mount-Thread M-42x0.75 for $25€ on your NX-mini
... this is crucial because Sam's MA4NXM Adapters are out of stock...

- But Yes, the Q, Q10's sensors are 44.4% More Sensitive !...

If I were You ?......


Last edited by geo444; 02-19-2019 at 11:55 AM.
02-21-2019, 02:07 AM   #55
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A Samsung NX mini would mean investment in another system though. I hope a small cut filter dropped onto the Q sensor housing secured with tape will allow full spectrum IR auto focus on my existing PQ lenses.

Now where do I get an inexpensive collection of various wavelength small cut IR filters from?
03-06-2019, 12:44 PM - 1 Like   #56
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Pentax Q & Q10 : IR-cut Filter Removal !

.
Hi all Pentax Q's AstroPhotographers !

Two Pages with a File to Download + that File have been updated.
Sony specs pages : imx078cqk.zip now contains the 2 *Digit Values to calculate the
imx078cqk Exmor CMos Sensor's Sensitivity :
Camera Sensor Comparison Tools
Pentax Q, Q10-IRcut, most Sensitive Sensor ILC
.
QuoteOriginally posted by 2old4toys Quote
A Samsung NX mini would mean investment in another system though.
.
As your Title ends with the words " astrophotography beginner ", I had to be honest, and ....
to report to you, every future astrophotography beginner, that the Q, Q10 are way more complicated to get
instantly nice results than the NX-mini for all the reasons I listed above...
.
Then, I don't think that buying a NX-mini Kit is really an investment = 2 ways to buy a used one :
- NX-mini Kit w/ 9-27 ED OIS zoom lens + Ext. Flash : ~$150 = the price of ~3 R72 Filters
- Body Only or with the 9mm ED Pancake lens : ~$100 = the price of ~2 R72 Filters

The Kit gathers almost Everything interesting from Samsung for ~$150...
the Ma4NxM adapter and the 17mm f/1.8 are Very Rare...

For the price of 2 / 3 R72, you'll be able to Avoid that R72 Filter, thus the Tripod + High ISO setting :
http://mecastronics.free.fr/stora/NXmini-9mm-BAREimx183.jpg
Exif : NX-mini, 9mm f/3.5 @ f/8, 1/558 sec. ISO 100
.
Else, yes the Q, Q10's sensors are ~44.4% More Sensitive :
Camera Sensor Comparison Tools
.
QuoteOriginally posted by 2old4toys Quote
I hope a small cut filter dropped onto the Q sensor housing secured with tape will allow full spectrum IR auto focus on my existing PQ lenses.
Now where do I get an inexpensive collection of various wavelength small cut IR filters from ?
+ Your PM : Would you be able to get me a photo of the IR filter removed from the Q ? Want to see how the ribbon cable is attached to the glass. I may want to re use just the glass. Could it be possible to just lay it on top of the sensor and secure with tape to get IR back if I wanted ?
.
I copied your MP here, in the hope maybe to get more informations ?

My appartment has been flooded 4 times since 2015, so I can't remember where did I put that IRcut filter ?
It's a very Thin ~Composite~ ( Not 100% shure ? ) Filter... the ribbon-cable is firmly glued on it...
Maybe you could try to peel-off the ribbon-cable out of the IRcut filter ??
There is No Room to operate, your Fingers are way bigger than these tiny parts...
So, I didn't even try to operate this way ??

Another way to resolve the unreachable infinite by the AF, would be to reduce the Flange distance...
If I remember correctly... there is a Thin Washer under the Q10 Baionette Mount ?
Is this the Mount-Spring ?... Or is it a Separate Washer ?
Could it be replaced by a thinner one ?

Hope you'll find a way to keep the AF working...
I understand it's The question of all the Lenses you already own.
Sorry... I was mainly interested by AstroPhotography with my 200/1000 SkyWatcher !
I own the Pentax-Q 5-15 zoom lens, so if I find some idea, I'll post it here...


Last edited by geo444; 03-07-2019 at 01:46 AM.
03-27-2019, 05:49 AM - 3 Likes   #57
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Pentax Q & Q10 : IR-cut Filter Removal !

QuoteOriginally posted by geo444 Quote
Hi all Pentax Q's AstroPhotographers ! ...
Another way to resolve the AF unreachable infinity, would be to reduce the Flange distance...
QuoteOriginally posted by geo444 Quote
Sorry... was mainly interested by AstroPhotography with my 200/1000 SkyWatcher !
I own the Pentax-Q 5-15 zoom lens, so if I find some idea, I'll post here...
.
Good news when you'll have removed your Q's IR-cut, 2old4toys !
I retrieved the measurements of the Q10 IR-cut Filter
12.6 width x 13.1 height x 0.6mm Thick

Its Thickness being 0.6mm only, you just need to Reduce BF 0.2 Maximum
-> an Optical-Rule useful when you insert / remove a Glass-Filter from a BF Path !
0.2 Maximum, because of Tolerance, if your Q has 0.05 of it...
then you just need to Reduce BF 0.15mm off

In fact, it's Very Easy : from 2 to 3 hours of High Precision Hand Work :
- Remove the 6 Screws... then the Bayonet
- verify that you find the Same Measurements as mine
... if Not, Write your Own Measurements then Subtract 0.2 & 0.1mm from them !
- for this, you need a Vernier Caliper
- a friend of yours owns a Metal Lathe, you just have to remove 0.15 mm from
the Front-side of the Bayonet Front-side... then let's try it...
- else, you need a 10-11mm thickness Three Square smooth Hand File

the 6+3 holes are in the External Crown of the Bayonet Back-side = 2.3 thickness
it'll be reduced to 2.2 all around at the same time than 3 of the following Sectors :
turning clockwise,
the Internal Bayonet Backside is divided into 6 Sectors starting at " InD33 " mark
-1 from ~1:0 to 2:30 AM (hole #2 position) : 2.4 thickness Sector to reduce to 2.2
(2 from 2:30 to 4:30 AM = 2.7mm Thickness sector : left as is)
-3 from 4:30 to 6:30 AM (hole #4 position) : 2.4 thickness Sector to reduce to 2.2
(4 from 6:30 to 8:30 AM = 2.7mm Thickness sector : left as is)
-5 from 8:30 to 10:0 AM (hole #6 position) : 2.4 thickness Sector to reduce to 2.2
(6 from 10:0 to ~1:0 PM = 2.7mm Thickness sector : left as is)

Q10's Bayonet Mount backside :

Backside of the Bayonet : External Crown (6+3 holes) was 2.3 thickness
+ 3 internal thinner Sectors were 2.4 thickness : now all are 2.2mm
I didn't touch the 3 other Sectors, they still are 2.7 thickness
-> 1st Sector begins at " InD33 " mark
I hope the grazing light shows all the details :
don't reduce the 2.7mm Sectors

Thinned Q10's Bayonet Mount, -0.2 & -0.1 this side, -0.1mm Max the other side :

Once you've reached 2.2mm thickness in these 3 Sectors - initially at 2.4mm
and, at the same time all around the External Crown (6+3 holes) initially at 2.3mm
you'll have to thin the Frontside of the Bayonet of 0.05mm to get started
then carefully Clean the Bayonet and remount it with its 6 screws
don't tighten too much, the screws are screwed into plastic
put the 5-15mm Zoom-lens, is your AF working ?
Do you hear the AF-confirmation 'BIP' ?
No, you'll have to go for 2.1...
Note : the 9-15mm range works first, the 5-9mm range works w/ a thinner Mount !

My Q10 is fine at 2.15 thickness, I'll confirm this when summer temp at 35C+...
if your Own Measurements minus 0.15 gives you 2.15... go for 2.15 !

Now, you're able to Avoid the R72 Filter, thus the Tripod + High ISO setting !
Best 25+ Infrared Photography ideas on Pinterest | Pics, Photographs, Photography
Infrared Photo possibilities are infinite...

a new DiY full page for the Pentax Q, Q7, Q10 :
Pentax Q, Q-10 modified for IR-Landscape photography


Last edited by geo444; 03-29-2019 at 02:48 AM.
04-06-2019, 08:12 AM   #58
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This is great to know how easy it is to remove the IR cut filter. However now I wonder if it is still worth doing as a cheap action cam will also accept the 12mm board mount lens..
How is the IQ of near-infrared images with the Q / Q10 ?
04-09-2019, 03:10 AM - 1 Like   #59
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Pentax Q & Q10 : IR-cut Filter Removal !

QuoteOriginally posted by kayakfari Quote
This is great to know how easy it is to remove the IR cut filter....
.
Thanks kayakfari !
and now, how easy it is to restore the AutoFocus functional to infinity :
Pentax Q, Q-10 modified for IR-Landscape photography

QuoteOriginally posted by kayakfari Quote
... now I wonder if it is still worth doing as a cheap Action Cam will also accept the 12mm board mount lens...
.
what are your intended uses : Action-Cam like, Astrophoto, Landscape-IR ?...
or, enjoy your 12mm board mount lens on the Q ?
What is its Focal Length ?

QuoteOriginally posted by kayakfari Quote
How is the IQ of near-infrared images with the Q / Q10 ?
.
As long as the lens doesn't show Chromatic Aberration, it's still good...
else, if your lens isn't Well Corrected, could be worse...
as you allow a wider Light Frequency Range through the lens
http://mecastronics.free.fr/PentaxQ10AstroIR.html

04-09-2019, 10:13 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by geo444 Quote
.
Thanks kayakfari !
and now, how easy it is to restore the AutoFocus functional to infinity :
Pentax Q, Q-10 modified for IR-Landscape photography


.
what are your intended uses : Action-Cam like, Astrophoto, Landscape-IR ?...
or, enjoy your 12mm board mount lens on the Q ?
What is its Focal Length ?


.
As long as the lens doesn't show Chromatic Aberration, it's still good...
else, if your lens isn't Well Corrected, could be worse...
as you allow a wider Light Frequency Range through the lens
Pentax Q, Q10-IRcut, most Sensitive Sensor ILC

It's a 1.2mm fisheye 220 degrees. I just wanted a REALLY wide circular FE lens on the Q!
It looks the same as this one:
https://www.aico-lens.com/product/1-2mm-16mp-4k-fisheye-lens-ac1612mm/

So I will probably cut out the IR filter in a spare Q "sensor guts" that I have laying around and then try to connect that to the "rest" of my Q.
This way I can always switch back the original if I want to .. BUT I was thinking that it may be even easier to just swap it out with an action cam lens (also M12 mount).
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