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01-22-2019, 10:42 PM - 1 Like   #1
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Q, Q7 or Q-S1?

I'm thinking about selling my old trusty K-01 because at this point it doesn't really fill my needs as I got the KP. Unless I decide to full spectrum convert it, I'd really rather get a camera that can comfortably fit into a hoody or otherwise (MX-1 is also a consideration for this). But for now out of these 3 cameras what would the pros and cons be?

I've used my dad's Q7 so I have an idea for how that one handles but when it comes to the better build and cheaper price of the original, or perhaps the update that came with the Q-S1 I'm not quite sure what I'd get.

01-22-2019, 10:48 PM - 1 Like   #2
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I would go for the Q7 every time because I prefer its look to the look of the Q-S1. The Q is beautiful just to hold (all that magnesium) but it can't compete with the Q7 for image quality. I believe the Q10 is also a little ahead of the Q on image quality and it may be cheapest of all.
01-22-2019, 11:22 PM - 1 Like   #3
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I purchased the Q10 kit with 02 and 06 lenses for $159 as an open box display. It had 15 clicks and all the packaging plastic still in place. While not as hearty build as the original Q, the image quality is a bit better (though not as good as the QS1 I’m told) and as PJ1 stayed, it is the cheapest as far as cost.
01-23-2019, 01:23 AM - 1 Like   #4
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Every camera in the series - the Q, Q10, Q7 and Q-S1 - will suit you well, but the Q7 and Q-S1 offer better image quality, as well as a wider field of view with each of the system lenses due to the physically larger sensor.

The Q and Q10 are very similar in functionality and share the same sensor, though I understand there were claims of very slightly improved image quality in the Q10. I can't confirm or deny this as I've never tried one. The original Q has nicer build quality, being the only one in the series with a magnesium alloy frame. The Q7 and Q-S1 share the same slightly larger sensor, and are almost identical in functionality and image quality, including improved higher ISO performance.

Something to be aware of with the original Q... By now, several copies have experienced failure of the backup battery. The camera can still be used, but it means you'd need to enter date and time information every time you switch it on. So far as I know, the other models haven't had this problem - or if they have, the numbers are much smaller...

Personally, I'd recommend either the Q7 or Q-S1. Q7's are becoming harder to find, although they appear in our Marketplace from time-to-time. Q-S1's are somewhat easier to find, though in far smaller numbers than a year or two back.

01-23-2019, 02:50 AM - 4 Likes   #5
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In my opinion, the Q-S1 is the camera to get. First, because it has the newer 1/1.7" sensor, which is a bit larger than the 1/2.3" sensor in both the original Q and the Q10. Because the sensor is larger but the number of pixels remains the same, then the pixels are less densely packed (from 43.57 to 28.62 Mpx/cm²), which is a good thing. The larger sensor is also better suited to the most commonly used lenses in the system. The 02 Standard zoom, which is approximately equivalent to a 28-84mm zoom when used on the smaller sensor of the Q/Q10, becomes a 23-68mm equ. on the larger sensor of the Q7/Q-S1. The 01 Prime, which is approximately equivalent to a 48mm lens when used on the smaller sensor of the Q/Q10, becomes a more useful 39mm equ. on the larger sensor of the Q7/Q-S1. The 08 Wide also becomes noticeably wider on the larger sensor.

Now, why not the Q7, which seems to be preferred by many because it looks and handles better? Most people consider that the Q7 is technically equivalent to the Q-S1 because they have the same sensor and that the only differences between both models are in the looks. But in fact the Q-S1 is a noticeably improved version of the Q7:
  • It offers continuous autofocus for video recording, while the Q7 doesn't.
  • The image processor has also been updated: the Q-S1 delivers improved JPEGs, with less noise and more detail, especially when you increase the ISO.
  • Response time is better: less wait at switch-on, faster AF and speedier write times.
  • White balance is also better, maybe because the Q-S1 has a stronger IR rejection filter (which makes the Q7 a better candidate if you want to try IR photography, although it would be even better to remove the IR rejecting filter altogether).
  • It seems that the device (auxiliary battery or capacitor) that supplies energy to the internal circuits while the main battery is removed is much more efficient on the Q-S1. On both my Q7 bodies, the clocks resets every time I replace the battery (as it does on my original Q bodies), while I never had this issue with any of my two Q-S1. But maybe it's only because they are obviously newer...

Q-S1 online reviews usually just state that the sensor and the display are the same as on the Q7 but most fail to acknowledge the various improvements between the two models. Here's a link to reviews (in French) demonstrating the differences:

The results of the tests conducted are quite clear IMHO. Let's have a look at the timings first.

Q7:
  • Low light focus: 1.13s
  • Telephoto focus: 0.46s
  • Wide angle focus: 0.54s
  • Photo1 -> photo2: 1.29s
  • OFF -> ON: 1.80s

Q-S1:
  • Low light focus: 0.83s
  • Telephoto focus: 0.32s
  • Wide angle focus: 0.47s
  • Photo1 -> photo2: 1.02s
  • OFF -> ON: 1.58s

And now, let's compare the pictures.

Q7:

Credit: Lesnumeriques.com

Q-S1:

Credit: Lesnumeriques.com

Cheers!

Abbazz
01-23-2019, 08:07 AM - 1 Like   #6
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One advantage of the Q7 has over the Q-S1 is the grip is more comfortable. I have both and unless I am going to shoot video I will generally choose the Q7 for that reason.


There may be a slight IQ advantage for the Q-S1, but I've never noticed it.
01-23-2019, 08:29 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Abbazz Quote
In my opinion, the Q-S1 is the camera to get.
...
Most people consider that the Q7 is technically equivalent to the Q-S1 because they have the same sensor and that the only differences between both models are in the looks. But in fact the Q-S1 is a noticeably improved version of the Q7
...
Q-S1 online reviews usually just state that the sensor and the display are the same as on the Q7 but most fail to acknowledge the various improvements between the two models.
Thanks for posting that information. I wasn't aware of the JPEG engine improvements, nor the better processing times. Very interesting!
01-23-2019, 09:40 AM   #8
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Since I mostly shoot Raw & take still photos, the only advantage a Q-S1 seems to have over the Q7 is speed. It isn't known if the battery/date issue has been fixed.

The Q7 advantages are looks (this won't make a bit of difference in photos) and handling. Not sure I would trade better handling off for the speed advantage of the Q-S1. Maybe.

Wonder if it would be possible to improve Q-S1 handling by adding a custom grip to surround the round sensor on the left side? Perhaps something 3D printed? Then the Q-S1 would have all the performance features.

Thanks,
barondla

01-23-2019, 11:03 AM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Since I mostly shoot Raw & take still photos, the only advantage a Q-S1 seems to have over the Q7 is speed. It isn't known if the battery/date issue has been fixed.

The Q7 advantages are looks (this won't make a bit of difference in photos) and handling. Not sure I would trade better handling off for the speed advantage of the Q-S1. Maybe.

Wonder if it would be possible to improve Q-S1 handling by adding a custom grip to surround the round sensor on the left side? Perhaps something 3D printed? Then the Q-S1 would have all the performance features.
Regarding the looks, I actually prefer the Q-S1, but I know it's only me... I also find the knob / IR receiver / vestigial handle quite useful to enhance the handling with larger lenses. Have you tried to put a couple of o-rings around it to have a better grip (I think this is something that has already been suggested here) ?

Cheers!

Abbazz
01-23-2019, 11:53 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Abbazz Quote
Regarding the looks, I actually prefer the Q-S1, but I know it's only me... I also find the knob / IR receiver / vestigial handle quite useful to enhance the handling with larger lenses. Have you tried to put a couple of o-rings around it to have a better grip (I think this is something that has already been suggested here) ?

Cheers!

Abbazz
Regarding looks, I had originally planned to get a 'silver' Q-7 because that looked more "retro", but I got a really good deal on a used 'yellow' one. With the built-in grip, I personally have no problems handling it with any size lens. {see also comment #15 below}

Last edited by reh321; 01-24-2019 at 10:11 AM.
01-23-2019, 12:44 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Abbazz Quote
It seems that the device (auxiliary battery or capacitor) that supplies energy to the internal circuits while the main battery is removed is much more efficient on the Q-S1. On both my Q7 bodies, the clocks resets every time I replace the battery (as it does on my original Q bodies), while I never had this issue with any of my two Q-S1.
I have a Q and two Q7s. Mine don't reset unless the battery has been out or dead for a while. Certainly not just swapping batteries.
01-23-2019, 03:05 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
I have a Q and two Q7s. Mine don't reset unless the battery has been out or dead for a while. Certainly not just swapping batteries.
Same here. But we've heard of this before. It might be a combination of age, usage cycle, component variation, whatever.

I'm dreading the time when it comes to either or both my Q and Q7. But for now, I'll just keep shooting and enjoying them
01-23-2019, 08:50 PM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I'm dreading the time when it comes to either or both my Q and Q7
My Q and Q7 bodies both have not-quite-total internal battery failure. Whenever replacing the main battery there is a short grace period of maybe two or three seconds. If I fumble a little getting the fresh one in, I have to reset the clock, and then I'm annoyed. But I'm pretty well practiced by now, like a one-man racing pit crew, and so can usually avoid the reset.
01-23-2019, 10:43 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Abbazz Quote
Regarding the looks, I actually prefer the Q-S1, but I know it's only me... I also find the knob / IR receiver / vestigial handle quite useful to enhance the handling with larger lenses. Have you tried to put a couple of o-rings around it to have a better grip (I think this is something that has already been suggested here) ?

Cheers!

Abbazz
Haven't tried O rings yet. Have to get a Q-1 first. looking into a Q-S1. Could see the the Q-S1's lack of grip making it easier to hold when using the PKA to Q adapter. The Q & Q7 are mighty limited for space beeen grip and adapter.
Thanks,
barondla
01-24-2019, 10:09 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Haven't tried O rings yet. Have to get a Q-1 first. looking into a Q-S1. Could see the the Q-S1's lack of grip making it easier to hold when using the PKA to Q adapter. The Q & Q7 are mighty limited for space beeen grip and adapter.
Thanks,
barondla
I use my Q-7 with K-mount lenses the way I was taught to use rangefinder cameras - right thumb under body, right forefinger on shutter button, and left hand holding adapter or lens. In that configuration, 'grip' is basically irrelevant.
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