Considering Used Q--which one?

pentaxian_tmb · 10-15-2019, 06:32 AM

I own a K5II; K-01, and Ricoh GR.

I owned the original Q with the prime lens for about a year before selling it to fund the Ricoh. My camera on my phone recently broke and it will be a while before I get a new phone. I am considering a used Q to replace the phone camera--daily carry around, random pics of kids, etc. Want something that takes decent pictures, is portable, and something I won't be afraid of damaging.

There are a couple of used original Qs on Ebay for between $220-$280; and fewer Q10s. I recall that the Q10 had a better sensor but dropped the mag body for plastic.

Is the Q10 "that much" better than the original Q?

Thoughts?

**termy** · 10-15-2019, 06:35 AM - **1 Like**

might want to look at the Q7 as well.

Slightly bigger sensor.

A Q7 with a 02 lens or a 01 prime, that's about all is needed for a carry around inconspicuous street / impromptu mighty tiny cam.

murrelet · 10-15-2019, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by pentaxian_tmb

I recall that the Q10 had a better sensor but dropped the mag body for plastic.

Is the Q10 "that much" better than the original Q?

Thoughts?

Q10 has the same sensor 1/2.3" sensor as the original Q. The Q7/QS1 has the slightly larger 1/1.7" sensor. The upside of the original Q over the Q10 is the build quality.

CarlJF · 10-15-2019, 08:10 AM - **1 Like**

The Q10 has the same sensor as the original one. The Q7/QS1 have the larger one. And yes, the difference is significant. The two later models are also more reactive and correct some software quirks of the original one. So, I would recommend one of the later models.

PS: I’ve owned and used both the original Q and Q7 models and still use the Q7 regularly.

**barondla** · 10-15-2019, 10:03 AM

Owned the original Q since day one. Shot with the Q10 a few times. Both use the same sensor size. Not sure if they are the same sensor. The Q has an electronic shutter with top flash sync speed of 1/13. The Q10 has 1/30. The Q10 also out perfomed the Q in other ways. The live view lcd display more quickly adapted to light changing from shadows to bright sun. The Q has the slightly smaller, more premium metal body.

For walk around I prefer the Q7 or Q-S1 with larger sensor. The 01 becomes closer to a 40 eq. lens vs a 50. For extreme tele, with adapted lenses, the Q/Q10 give greater reach.
You need both sensor sizes.
Thanks,
barondla

**WillWeaverRVA** · 10-15-2019, 01:45 PM - **1 Like**

I love my Q10 even though I don't use it as much nowadays. There's definitely a lot of fun to be had with it, although I will echo what everyone else is saying and note that the Q7 has slightly better IQ thanks to the larger sensor, and is probably a better walkaround camera.

I would consider the Q10 over the original Q unless you're really interested in top-notch build quality, but aside from that they're basically the same camera.

Unregistered User · 10-15-2019, 08:09 PM

I've got both the Q7 and the QS-1, the QS-1 will auto focus on video for the 01, 02 and 08 lenses, but not the 06.

That is the only reason to get it over any other Q.
The Q7 feels better in the hand, the QS-1 is a little rough around the IR focusing port and the Scene Dial.

If you are primarily interested in long telephoto, either the Q or the Q-10 is your best bet.

**barondla** · 10-15-2019, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by Cipher

I've got both the Q7 and the QS-1, the QS-1 will auto focus on video for the 01, 02 and 08 lenses, but not the 06.

That is the only reason to get it over any other Q.
The Q7 feels better in the hand, the QS-1 is a little rough around the IR focusing port and the Scene Dial.

If you are primarily interested in long telephoto, either the Q or the Q-10 is your best bet.

I don't do video. According to Pentax should the 06 af in video? Wonder why it doesn't and the other premium lenses do?
Thanks,
barondla

mamba909 · 10-15-2019, 09:43 PM - **1 Like**

Another Q and a Q7 owner here. I would recommend the Q7 over the original due to the improved image quality and performance. Keep in mind, though, that the 01 has some barrel distortion on the Q7.

However, if you do plan on being rough with your Q, the original is the way to go.

**steamloco76** · 10-16-2019, 05:42 AM - **1 Like**

I bought an “as new” used Q kit with the 01, 02, 04 and 05 lenses a while back. Even after the latest software, the Q was a bit quirky for my taste. A used Q7 popped up on eBay from a USA seller priced under $200, so I bought it. Other than the feel of the body, the Q7 is significantly better.

The autofocus system of the Q7 easily outperforms the original Q. Focus points are shown on the LCD screen. Focus peaking is available for manual focus too, not a great help, but better than nothing. High ISO performance is one stop better with the Q7, the original Q shows noise starting at ISO 400, the Q 7 is still mainly clean at ISO 800. Either Q makes a worthy backup or second camera to a DSLR and a fine, easy to tote full system for times when a DSLR and two lenses or more is inconvenient.

**barondla** · 10-16-2019, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by Cipher

Page 80 on the Q-S1 manual says that continuous movie AF is not available on the 06 (footnote 7). You can focus the 06 while it is shooting video by pressing OK button, but not continuously. Why this is so is a mystery although I suspect the construction of the 06 has something to do with it.

Not owning a Q-S1, wasn't aware of the 06's lack of continuous focusing shooting video. Interesting. Could be numerous things. Perhaps the long tele would require considerably more effort from Q processor and or power from battery. The 06 collapsible construction might also have an affect. Anyway good to know.

Thanks for the info,
barondla

Abbazz · 10-23-2019, 01:33 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Cipher

I've got both the Q7 and the QS-1, the QS-1 will auto focus on video for the 01, 02 and 08 lenses, but not the 06.

That is the only reason to get it over any other Q.
The Q7 feels better in the hand, the QS-1 is a little rough around the IR focusing port and the Scene Dial.

The Q-S1 is a noticeably improved version of the Q7:

It does indeed offer continuous autofocus for video recording with certain lenses, while the Q7 doesn't.
The image processor has also been updated: the Q-S1 delivers improved JPEGs, with less noise and more detail, especially when you increase the ISO.
Response time is better: less wait at switch-on, faster AF and speedier write times.
White balance is better, maybe because the Q-S1 has a stronger IR rejection filter (which makes the Q7 a better candidate if you want to try IR photography, although it would be even better to remove the IR filter altogether).

Q-S1 online reviews usually just state that the sensor and the display are the same as on the Q7 but most fail to acknowledge the various improvements between the two models. Here's a link to reviews (in French) demonstrating the differences:

Q7 Review

Pentax Q7 - Credit: lesnumeriques.com

Q-S1 Review

Pentax Q-S1 - Credit: lesnumeriques.com

Cheers!

Abbazz

Leumas · 10-25-2019, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by Abbazz

The Q-S1 is a noticeably improved version of the Q7:

It does indeed offer continuous autofocus for video recording with certain lenses, while the Q7 doesn't.
The image processor has also been updated: the Q-S1 delivers improved JPEGs, with less noise and more detail, especially when you increase the ISO.
Response time is better: less wait at switch-on, faster AF and speedier write times.
White balance is better, maybe because the Q-S1 has a stronger IR rejection filter (which makes the Q7 a better candidate if you want to try IR photography, although it would be even better to remove the IR filter altogether).

Q-S1 online reviews usually just state that the sensor and the display are the same as on the Q7 but most fail to acknowledge the various improvements between the two models. Here's a link to reviews (in French) demonstrating the differences:

Q7 Review

Pentax Q7 - Credit: lesnumeriques.com

Q-S1 Review

Pentax Q-S1 - Credit: lesnumeriques.com

Cheers!

Abbazz

Well I was about to ask why go with a q-s1 over the q7 .....but I think that answers it. All around better it seems

Abbazz · 10-26-2019, 07:17 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Leumas

Well I was about to ask why go with a q-s1 over the q7 .....but I think that answers it. All around better it seems

I just took a couple of pictures to illustrate the differences between both cameras. Nothing fancy, just a view at infinity shot in bad weather with the 01 Prime lens on the Q7 and Q-S1 cameras.To minimize the risk of discrepancies, I used the same 01 lens on both cameras. Both were set to manual exposure mode, f/4.5 aperture, 100 ISO, daylight white balance and RAW + large JPEG mode.

I carefully measured the exposure with my Gossen Luna-Pro: 1/125s for F/4.5 and 100 ISO. The first surprise was that the Q-S1 gave me a correctly exposed picture at f/4.5 and 1/125s but the corresponding Q7 picture was way too dark:

Q-S1 (straight out of camera JPEG at 1/125s, F/4.5 and 100 ISO)

Q7 (straight out of camera JPEG at 1/125s, F/4.5 and 100 ISO)

[EDIT: as per KWB' s post, it appears that I had the ND filter activated in my Q7, therefore it is perfectly normal for the image from this camera to exhibit a 2 stop difference with the one from the Q-S1.] In order to get a correctly exposed picture with the Q7, I had to use 1/40s at F/4.5 and 100 ISO, that's a difference of almost 2 stops compared to the Q-S1! It means that when you shoot in low light at 800 ISO on the Q-S1, you have to crank up the sensitivity to 2500 ISO on the Q7 to get an equivalent shutter/diaphragm couple. [EDIT: there is no difference in exposure between the Q7 and the Q-S1.]

Here are the pictures, with the exposure on the Q7 adapted in order to get the same density on the JPEG (you can click on the pictures to inspect them full size):

Q-S1 (straight out of camera JPEG at 1/125s, F/4.5 and 100 ISO)

Q7 (straight out of camera JPEG at 1/40s, F/4.5 and 100 ISO)

100% details of both JPEG OOC pictures (Q-S1 on the left, Q7 on the right):

Here are the same pictures but processed with Adobe Camera Raw from the raw files (minimal processing, low sharpening):

Q-S1 (raw file processed with Adobe Camera Raw)

Q7 (raw file processed with Adobe Camera Raw)

100% details of both JPEG from raw pictures (Q-S1 on the left, Q7 on the right):

I find the Q-S1 images distinctively sharper at base ISO both for processed RAW and out-of-camera JPEG, especially when looking at low contrast fine details, like tree foliage at infinity. If you download the original JPEGs processed with ACR and give them a bit of sharpening, the difference becomes even more apparent.

Cheers!

Abbazz

**kwb** · 10-26-2019, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by Abbazz

I just took a couple of pictures to illustrate the differences between both cameras. Nothing fancy, just a view at infinity shot in bad weather with the 01 Prime lens on the Q7 and Q-S1 cameras.To minimize the risk of discrepancies, I used the same 01 lens on both cameras. Both were set to manual exposure mode, f/4.5 aperture, 100 ISO, daylight white balance and RAW + large JPEG mode.

I carefully measured the exposure with my Gossen Luna-Pro: 1/125s for F/4.5 and 100 ISO. The first surprise was that the Q-S1 gave me a correctly exposed picture at f/4.5 and 1/125s but the corresponding Q7 picture was way too dark:

Hi Abbazz, from EXIF data I can see that the ND filter was ON for Q7 but not for Q-S1. That explains 2 stops darker image on Q7.

10-15-2019, 06:32 AM	#1
pentaxian_tmb Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 436	Considering Used Q--which one? I own a K5II; K-01, and Ricoh GR. I owned the original Q with the prime lens for about a year before selling it to fund the Ricoh. My camera on my phone recently broke and it will be a while before I get a new phone. I am considering a used Q to replace the phone camera--daily carry around, random pics of kids, etc. Want something that takes decent pictures, is portable, and something I won't be afraid of damaging. There are a couple of used original Qs on Ebay for between $220-$280; and fewer Q10s. I recall that the Q10 had a better sensor but dropped the mag body for plastic. Is the Q10 "that much" better than the original Q? Thoughts?

10-23-2019, 01:33 AM - 2 Likes	#12
Abbazz Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 667	Originally posted by Cipher I've got both the Q7 and the QS-1, the QS-1 will auto focus on video for the 01, 02 and 08 lenses, but not the 06. That is the only reason to get it over any other Q. The Q7 feels better in the hand, the QS-1 is a little rough around the IR focusing port and the Scene Dial. The Q-S1 is a noticeably improved version of the Q7: It does indeed offer continuous autofocus for video recording with certain lenses, while the Q7 doesn't. The image processor has also been updated: the Q-S1 delivers improved JPEGs, with less noise and more detail, especially when you increase the ISO. Response time is better: less wait at switch-on, faster AF and speedier write times. White balance is better, maybe because the Q-S1 has a stronger IR rejection filter (which makes the Q7 a better candidate if you want to try IR photography, although it would be even better to remove the IR filter altogether). Q-S1 online reviews usually just state that the sensor and the display are the same as on the Q7 but most fail to acknowledge the various improvements between the two models. Here's a link to reviews (in French) demonstrating the differences: Q7 Review Pentax Q7 - Credit: lesnumeriques.com Q-S1 Review Pentax Q-S1 - Credit: lesnumeriques.com Cheers! Abbazz Last edited by Abbazz; 10-23-2019 at 02:07 AM.

10-25-2019, 10:51 PM	#13
Leumas Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 454	Originally posted by Abbazz The Q-S1 is a noticeably improved version of the Q7: It does indeed offer continuous autofocus for video recording with certain lenses, while the Q7 doesn't. The image processor has also been updated: the Q-S1 delivers improved JPEGs, with less noise and more detail, especially when you increase the ISO. Response time is better: less wait at switch-on, faster AF and speedier write times. White balance is better, maybe because the Q-S1 has a stronger IR rejection filter (which makes the Q7 a better candidate if you want to try IR photography, although it would be even better to remove the IR filter altogether). Q-S1 online reviews usually just state that the sensor and the display are the same as on the Q7 but most fail to acknowledge the various improvements between the two models. Here's a link to reviews (in French) demonstrating the differences: Q7 Review Pentax Q7 - Credit: lesnumeriques.com Q-S1 Review Pentax Q-S1 - Credit: lesnumeriques.com Cheers! Abbazz Well I was about to ask why go with a q-s1 over the q7 .....but I think that answers it. All around better it seems

10-26-2019, 07:17 PM - 1 Like	#14
Abbazz Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 667	Originally posted by Leumas Well I was about to ask why go with a q-s1 over the q7 .....but I think that answers it. All around better it seems I just took a couple of pictures to illustrate the differences between both cameras. Nothing fancy, just a view at infinity shot in bad weather with the 01 Prime lens on the Q7 and Q-S1 cameras.To minimize the risk of discrepancies, I used the same 01 lens on both cameras. Both were set to manual exposure mode, f/4.5 aperture, 100 ISO, daylight white balance and RAW + large JPEG mode. I carefully measured the exposure with my Gossen Luna-Pro: 1/125s for F/4.5 and 100 ISO. The first surprise was that the Q-S1 gave me a correctly exposed picture at f/4.5 and 1/125s but the corresponding Q7 picture was way too dark: Q-S1 (straight out of camera JPEG at 1/125s, F/4.5 and 100 ISO) Q7 (straight out of camera JPEG at 1/125s, F/4.5 and 100 ISO) [EDIT: as per KWB' s post, it appears that I had the ND filter activated in my Q7, therefore it is perfectly normal for the image from this camera to exhibit a 2 stop difference with the one from the Q-S1.] In order to get a correctly exposed picture with the Q7, I had to use 1/40s at F/4.5 and 100 ISO, that's a difference of almost 2 stops compared to the Q-S1! It means that when you shoot in low light at 800 ISO on the Q-S1, you have to crank up the sensitivity to 2500 ISO on the Q7 to get an equivalent shutter/diaphragm couple. [EDIT: there is no difference in exposure between the Q7 and the Q-S1.] Here are the pictures, with the exposure on the Q7 adapted in order to get the same density on the JPEG (you can click on the pictures to inspect them full size): Q-S1 (straight out of camera JPEG at 1/125s, F/4.5 and 100 ISO) Q7 (straight out of camera JPEG at 1/40s, F/4.5 and 100 ISO) 100% details of both JPEG OOC pictures (Q-S1 on the left, Q7 on the right): Here are the same pictures but processed with Adobe Camera Raw from the raw files (minimal processing, low sharpening): Q-S1 (raw file processed with Adobe Camera Raw) Q7 (raw file processed with Adobe Camera Raw) 100% details of both JPEG from raw pictures (Q-S1 on the left, Q7 on the right): I find the Q-S1 images distinctively sharper at base ISO both for processed RAW and out-of-camera JPEG, especially when looking at low contrast fine details, like tree foliage at infinity. If you download the original JPEGs processed with ACR and give them a bit of sharpening, the difference becomes even more apparent. Cheers! Abbazz Last edited by Abbazz; 10-26-2019 at 09:11 PM. Reason: Methodology error.

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10-15-2019, 06:35 AM - 1 Like	#2
termy Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 1,154	might want to look at the Q7 as well. Slightly bigger sensor. A Q7 with a 02 lens or a 01 prime, that's about all is needed for a carry around inconspicuous street / impromptu mighty tiny cam.

10-15-2019, 07:40 AM	#3
murrelet Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Portland, OR, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 506	Originally posted by pentaxian_tmb I recall that the Q10 had a better sensor but dropped the mag body for plastic. Is the Q10 "that much" better than the original Q? Thoughts? Q10 has the same sensor 1/2.3" sensor as the original Q. The Q7/QS1 has the slightly larger 1/1.7" sensor. The upside of the original Q over the Q10 is the build quality.

10-15-2019, 08:10 AM - 1 Like	#4
CarlJF Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Quebec City Posts: 1,185	The Q10 has the same sensor as the original one. The Q7/QS1 have the larger one. And yes, the difference is significant. The two later models are also more reactive and correct some software quirks of the original one. So, I would recommend one of the later models. PS: I’ve owned and used both the original Q and Q7 models and still use the Q7 regularly.

10-15-2019, 10:03 AM	#5
barondla Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: midwest, United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,714	Owned the original Q since day one. Shot with the Q10 a few times. Both use the same sensor size. Not sure if they are the same sensor. The Q has an electronic shutter with top flash sync speed of 1/13. The Q10 has 1/30. The Q10 also out perfomed the Q in other ways. The live view lcd display more quickly adapted to light changing from shadows to bright sun. The Q has the slightly smaller, more premium metal body. For walk around I prefer the Q7 or Q-S1 with larger sensor. The 01 becomes closer to a 40 eq. lens vs a 50. For extreme tele, with adapted lenses, the Q/Q10 give greater reach. You need both sensor sizes. Thanks, barondla

10-15-2019, 01:45 PM - 1 Like	#6
WillWeaverRVA Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Richmond, VA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,071	I love my Q10 even though I don't use it as much nowadays. There's definitely a lot of fun to be had with it, although I will echo what everyone else is saying and note that the Q7 has slightly better IQ thanks to the larger sensor, and is probably a better walkaround camera. I would consider the Q10 over the original Q unless you're really interested in top-notch build quality, but aside from that they're basically the same camera.

10-15-2019, 08:09 PM	#7
Unregistered User Guest	I've got both the Q7 and the QS-1, the QS-1 will auto focus on video for the 01, 02 and 08 lenses, but not the 06. That is the only reason to get it over any other Q. The Q7 feels better in the hand, the QS-1 is a little rough around the IR focusing port and the Scene Dial. If you are primarily interested in long telephoto, either the Q or the Q-10 is your best bet.

10-15-2019, 08:47 PM	#8
barondla Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: midwest, United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,714	Originally posted by Cipher I've got both the Q7 and the QS-1, the QS-1 will auto focus on video for the 01, 02 and 08 lenses, but not the 06. That is the only reason to get it over any other Q. The Q7 feels better in the hand, the QS-1 is a little rough around the IR focusing port and the Scene Dial. If you are primarily interested in long telephoto, either the Q or the Q-10 is your best bet. I don't do video. According to Pentax should the 06 af in video? Wonder why it doesn't and the other premium lenses do? Thanks, barondla

10-15-2019, 09:43 PM - 1 Like	#9
mamba909 Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: L.A. County, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 405	Another Q and a Q7 owner here. I would recommend the Q7 over the original due to the improved image quality and performance. Keep in mind, though, that the 01 has some barrel distortion on the Q7. However, if you do plan on being rough with your Q, the original is the way to go.

10-16-2019, 05:42 AM - 1 Like	#10
steamloco76 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Pennsylvania Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,710	I bought an “as new” used Q kit with the 01, 02, 04 and 05 lenses a while back. Even after the latest software, the Q was a bit quirky for my taste. A used Q7 popped up on eBay from a USA seller priced under $200, so I bought it. Other than the feel of the body, the Q7 is significantly better. The autofocus system of the Q7 easily outperforms the original Q. Focus points are shown on the LCD screen. Focus peaking is available for manual focus too, not a great help, but better than nothing. High ISO performance is one stop better with the Q7, the original Q shows noise starting at ISO 400, the Q 7 is still mainly clean at ISO 800. Either Q makes a worthy backup or second camera to a DSLR and a fine, easy to tote full system for times when a DSLR and two lenses or more is inconvenient.

10-16-2019, 09:11 AM	#11
barondla Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: midwest, United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,714	Originally posted by Cipher Page 80 on the Q-S1 manual says that continuous movie AF is not available on the 06 (footnote 7). You can focus the 06 while it is shooting video by pressing OK button, but not continuously. Why this is so is a mystery although I suspect the construction of the 06 has something to do with it. Not owning a Q-S1, wasn't aware of the 06's lack of continuous focusing shooting video. Interesting. Could be numerous things. Perhaps the long tele would require considerably more effort from Q processor and or power from battery. The 06 collapsible construction might also have an affect. Anyway good to know. Thanks for the info, barondla

10-26-2019, 08:25 PM	#15
kwb Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Pacific North West Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,223	Originally posted by Abbazz I just took a couple of pictures to illustrate the differences between both cameras. Nothing fancy, just a view at infinity shot in bad weather with the 01 Prime lens on the Q7 and Q-S1 cameras.To minimize the risk of discrepancies, I used the same 01 lens on both cameras. Both were set to manual exposure mode, f/4.5 aperture, 100 ISO, daylight white balance and RAW + large JPEG mode. I carefully measured the exposure with my Gossen Luna-Pro: 1/125s for F/4.5 and 100 ISO. The first surprise was that the Q-S1 gave me a correctly exposed picture at f/4.5 and 1/125s but the corresponding Q7 picture was way too dark: Hi Abbazz, from EXIF data I can see that the ND filter was ON for Q7 but not for Q-S1. That explains 2 stops darker image on Q7.

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