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01-21-2020, 01:44 PM - 16 Likes   #1
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Reversed 03 fish-eye on KP

Here's a Q lens used on a non-Q body. Cross posted with the "Macro by any means necessary" thread.

Having reversed SLR lenses (prime and zoom), and movie camera lenses for macro shooting, I wondered about the Q 03 fish-eye, reversed, figuring that its short focal length would produce even higher magnification than nanything I'd yet tried reversing. So, I got a hold of one. I attached it to my KP using a 49mm reverse adapter, a 37-49mm step up ring, and some masking tape around the front barrel of the lens to keep it snug in the step up ring. No extension is necessary to get the image circle to fill the APS-C frame. I don't know what would happen with full frame, though.

The combination isn't going to win any beauty contests...



It works, but it's very tricky. DOF is minimal. Working distance is very small, 9.2mm, the registration distance of the Q. For these test shots I used existing light, live view and self-timer. Getting flash illumination on the subject will be tricky. It's unlikely I would use this in my usual hand-held field shooting style. This set up is going to need a tripod.





Some results.

Horizontal field of view is less than 2mm. Here are a pair of millimeter marks on a ruler:




The knurled focus ring of the 8mm cine lens seen in the shots above:



Printing from a step-up ring box. The box was not quite squiare on; the left hand side of the image is sharper than the right.



and the price tag on it.



Here's a shot of the box with a ruler. The black and orange pattern in the shot above is just to the left of the price tag.



I'll have to try this out on more interesting subjects. I'll post results when I do!

I also want to try the 03 fish-eye as part of a wide angle macro relay system. These rigs tend to use small M12 "board" lenses (usually with larger maximum apertures than the 03 has), intended for smaller sensor CCTV or GoPro style cameras and the like. Watch this space for developments...

01-21-2020, 01:56 PM   #2
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I have to applaud you for this effort. I doubt most of us would even think of trying such an experiment. The fact that you got usable pictures with this at all is amazing. Well done.
01-21-2020, 02:02 PM   #3
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You are hanging by a very thin thread Nonetheless, this is awesome. Bravo!

The price tag photo is amazing. I'm actually rather surprised by how sharp it is at the point of focus, and how much detail it captures...
01-21-2020, 02:25 PM   #4
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Totally awesome. You could do super-macro of some gruesome stuff with that - pond life and critters in a bit of household dust!

01-21-2020, 02:33 PM - 1 Like   #5
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Now I want one. Nice job
01-21-2020, 03:45 PM - 1 Like   #6
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Ditto on BigMackCam's price tag comment. You get a certain 3D effect on individual paper fibers and printing micro dots. Fabulous! Any idea what your magnification factor is? Close to that of a student microscope I would think.
01-21-2020, 04:19 PM - 2 Likes   #7
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Thanks everyone!

I'd toyed with the idea of the Q 03 for a while. Holding one up to my eye and looking through it in reverse was VERY dark. I really couldn't make out anything using this quick inspection method, so I didn't bother trying it.

QuoteOriginally posted by blackcloudbrew Quote
I have to applaud you for this effort. I doubt most of us would even think of trying such an experiment. The fact that you got usable pictures with this at all is amazing. Well done.
Thanks! For me, it felt like a logical progression. Having seen what the higher and higher magnification I got with with reversing wider and wider zooms (28-80, 18-55, 10-20), I figured something wider still would yield even more. So, I finally got hold of the 03 at a very good price. Actually, I bought it after I took these test shots. I was very pleased that mounting was so easy, and that the image circle gave full coverage on my KP.

---------- Post added 01-21-20 at 06:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
You are hanging by a very thin thread Nonetheless, this is awesome. Bravo!

The price tag photo is amazing. I'm actually rather surprised by how sharp it is at the point of focus, and how much detail it captures...
I was pleasantly suprised too, given the slap-dash, down & dirty test set-up I used for proof of concept. I'll have to see if I can eak out any more image quality with greater care. I don't think it's ever going to be for pixel peeping. At this point I'm not focus stacking either, so whether it would be good enough for that techniques is an open question.

---------- Post added 01-21-20 at 06:25 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MossyRocks Quote
Now I want one. Nice job
Ooops. Sorry! At least it won't take up much space...

---------- Post added 01-21-20 at 06:35 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Apet-Sure Quote
Ditto on BigMackCam's price tag comment. You get a certain 3D effect on individual paper fibers and printing micro dots. Fabulous! Any idea what your magnification factor is? Close to that of a student microscope I would think.
I haven't done any proper measurement, but it looks like the horizontal field of view is about 1.3mm. Spread out over the KP sensor size of 23.5mm gives a magnification of approximately 18X. I did take a few shots with a bit of extension; I don't think the ruler shot was one of them, but It's possible it was. In that case, magnification would be a bit less (see above about being more careful....
01-21-2020, 05:16 PM - 2 Likes   #8
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Great work!

As you've discovered, the smaller the focal length of the reversed lens, the greater the magnification. Depending on where the front nodal point ends up, you'll probably get between 46/3.2 = 14X to 60/3.2 = 19X magnification with s 3.2 mm focal length of the Q 03 fisheye.

As for image circle coverage, any lens that has a "normal" field of view or wider on its native camera should be able to cover a full frame sensor. Reversing a "telephoto" lens from another format can cover a larger sensor but may need extension tubes or a bellows to do so.

01-21-2020, 05:43 PM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Great work! As you've discovered, the smaller the focal length of the reversed lens, the greater the magnification. Depending on where the front nodal point ends up, you'll probably get between 46/3.2 = 14X to 60/3.2 = 19X magnification with s 3.2 mm focal length of the Q 03 fisheye.

As for image circle coverage, any lens that has a "normal" field of view or wider on its native camera should be able to cover a full frame sensor. Reversing a "telephoto" lens from another format can cover a larger sensor but may need extension tubes or a bellows to do so.
Good to know. I thought it might be the case, as my reversed Kinotel 1 1/2 inch 8mm covers APS-c without extension, but I didn't know for sure.

I'm assuming like DSLR lenses without aperture rings that the Q 01 standard prime (and the rest of the Q lens line-up, excluding the toy lenses) stays closed when not mounted on a body? Without the mechanical linkage that can be wedged open, there would be no way (without a lot of slaving over a hot soldering iron to put together some means for communication) to get a larger aperture. I'm lucky the 03 doesn't have a diaphragm to worry about. The toy lenses, which I assume also have no diaphragm, would be darker still. Looks like I fell into the right optic!

I think the 03 as the front end of a wide angle macro relay rig is going to take a bit more experimentation...

---------- Post added 01-21-20 at 08:03 PM ----------

P.S. Just found this thread (pretty recent, too) on reversing Q lenses on Q bodies: Pentax Q mount macro reverse rings - PentaxForums.com

Last edited by Thagomizer; 01-21-2020 at 06:04 PM.
01-21-2020, 06:14 PM - 3 Likes   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Thagomizer Quote
I'm assuming like DSLR lenses without aperture rings that the Q 01 standard prime (and the rest of the Q lens line-up, excluding the toy lenses) stays closed when not mounted on a body?
If you have a Q series body, just mount the lens on, turn on the camera and then unmount while the camera power is on and both the leaf shutter and the aperture stay open.
This is true for all Q lenses with variable aperture, i.e. Q 01, 02, 06 and 08.

Awesome experiment, btw!!!
01-21-2020, 06:37 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by kwb Quote
If you have a Q series body, just mount the lens on, turn on the camera and then unmount while the camera power is on and both the leaf shutter and the aperture stay open.
This is true for all Q lenses with variable aperture, i.e. Q 01, 02, 06 and 08.

Awesome experiment, btw!!!
Thanks! Good information on dealing with the shutter/aperture. Similar to the workaround I've heard of for Canon EOS lenses.

I don't have a Q body, but it looks like a neat system. Thanks everyone for indulging this Pentax APS-C shooter's tinkering!
01-22-2020, 03:47 AM   #12
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So I can use my Pentax Qs PK adaptor with mechanical shutter and reverse mount the 03 FE just like you did here but on Q. Atomic scale macro.
01-22-2020, 07:10 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Thagomizer Quote
Ooops. Sorry! At least it won't take up much space...
Well I have an auto 110 that work and 5 of the 6 lenses so what is one more small thing in the collection. It isn't like getting a second SMC A* 400mm f/2.8 ED [IF], although that is tempting now just so I can run 2 of them.
01-23-2020, 10:21 AM - 4 Likes   #14
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More results from the reversed Q 03 fish-eye on my KP. I'm posting this on all three threads where I've been talking about this; "Reversed 03 fish-eye on KP", "Pentax Q mount macro reverse rings", and "Macro by any means necessary club."

Camera is tripod mounted on a focus rail. Electronic shutter with 12 second self timer for shooting, existing light using a diffused Ikea Jansjo light.

First some more "indutrial" targets. Printed number on a lens barrel:




Printing on a business card:





The edges of some small manilla envelopes:




Still industrial, but not mechanical. Multigrain bread...



and the surface of one of the seeds on the top of the bread.



Some closeup bug bits.

Our first subject, an unfortunate shield bug (?), which I found dead in a corner of the bedroom, under some stuff.

Here's the whole insect:



And a close-up of its eye:



Our second contestant is a cast-off cicada husk:



Some of its bits. The business end of one of its digging claws:



And spines at the (wrist? elbow??) joint of the same limb:



An adult cicada (found deceased).



A close-up of one of its eyes:



Because of the very limited depth of field, reversing the Q 03 fish-eye might best be used with flat subjects. More three dimensional subjects move out of the limited plane of focus very quickly in either direction; image quality is such that it might not be worth the trouble of stacking, though I'll let those who actually do focus stacking (of which I am not, as yet, one) decide this for themselves. I don't think this optic is a hidden gem that's going to take the photomacrography world by storm. That said, it is fun to play with and makes for a comparatively compact rig for high magnification shooting. If I'm feeling particularly optimistic (or masochistic) I might even try it in the field once weather is warmer.
01-24-2020, 08:45 AM   #15
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Amazing images. It isn't easy shooting at such high magnifications. Well done. Looking forward to seeing more images.
Thanks for sharing,
barondla
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