[jsherman999]

That's why I said "Here's a real provocation for you". In case you were referring to my previous questions, I guess we just have to disagree.


Hey, I wonder if you agree that this could be considered a provocation rather than a real question?


Yeah, fine, but given that he earns money with photography -- I'm avoiding to say he's a professional because the latter to me comes with an ethos he apparently has no intention to aspire to -- I was just wondering why he repeatedly announced "his" departure from Pentax and rants about his dissatisfaction with Pentax while he could get rid of some problems by simply switching. Whatever reason it is stopping him from making the switch, why not tell us? To not tell us on the basis that my question could be construed as a provocation is -- well not professional.


I'm sad that this is your opinion. I don't know how you arrived at it. Maybe I have a reputation of being a critical mind and/or not being someone that eats bullshit gladly. But if you take my post at face value, honestly, I don't see where the provocation is. Yes, you can read hostility into them if you want to. But couldn't the same questions and observations (about some behaviour coming across as unprofessional) not come from a very good friend? I definitely think so and I can assure you there was no aggression intended at all. I'll admit to being a bit tired to see the same incoherent position from Ben time and again, but there was more goodwill contained in my post then anything else.

All I can say is that the questions were neither meant to be rhetorical nor to be a provocation. They were genuine questions for which I would have liked to receive honest answers.

.

Fair enough. It seemed like baiting, but could have just been a toughly worded series of questions. Fine line between the two sometimes.

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[Class A]

It seemed like baiting, but could have just been a toughly worded series of questions.

I very much appreciate the credit you are giving to me.

English is not my native language and in my country of origin we pull no punches. Not to be rude or aggressive but we just don't beat around the bush.

[Peter Zack]

I'm reading this thread and seeing the agony I faced last season. Being a 30 year Pentax shooter, much of it doing paid work, I hated the position I felt they put me in.

There was no real (feature for feature) alternative to a critical lens like the 16-50mm. No other lens has WS and a silent motor in one high-speed lens. I have the Tamron version now and love it. I wish it were WS. Although it exhibits a lot less barrel distortion at the wide end and that's a welcome plus.

SDM has never been addressed. Certainly I don't have Ben's profile but I've been a loyal supporter and sold plenty of Pentax cameras over the years to new shooters. This is something I will not do today.

I wrote Pentax Canada and Ned B with my issues; body failures, lens failures and so on. Never once got a satisfactory reply. Basically send it to service and cross your fingers that we might get it right this time was the typical reply. So, some stuff was fixed, some stuff was tossed in the garbage (try doing that and see how loyal you feel) and what remained was sold.

Now for me, Pentax will remain a casual shooting platform. If I want to just go take a few landscape shots for personal use, it's fine. If I want to pay the rent, it comes nowhere close in terms of being reliable. Too bad, Pentax has a lot of things right, image rendering, in body SR, WS, menu setup and a few other things. None of that matters if you can't take the photo when you need to.

When a lens series like the FA*'s can last for decades without any serious issues, is it too much to ask that the DA*'s can't be just as bullet proof considering the premium price tag?

So what would I suggest, let's stop defending and as a result, taking oppositional sides that cause friction between members here. Let's ban together, all sign a petition right here on PF (we can create a Google Doc or some other method) that enough is enough.
We need 10,000 unique names on the document to make it real. Then we send it to Ned.

[gybp]

So why don't you switch?

Or at least bring a backup lens (even if it is just the 16-45)?

I sometimes really wonder about the motivation for your posts. Your public "Good Bye"s to Pentax and threads like this one are bad for any relationship with Pentax you may aspire to have in the future and make you look the opposite of professional.

this is not a provocation, is just a question! i was about to ask you the same thing... why dont you get a 5D, a D3, or any good camera instead of the pentax that fails you and almost no one uses in professional work??

[pb_red]

We need 10,000 unique names on the document to make it real. Then we send it to Ned.

are there really 10,000+ unhappy pentax users out there or are there a lot more sympathetic users than unhappy ones?

i am the target audience for pentax - amateur photographer - and i own or have owned an SDM lens along with DA's and F/FA's and i am happy with their products.

at the same time, i can definitely sympathise with those who have problems with their gear. as well, there are decisions pentax/hoya makes that i am not happy about (like deciding not to make any truly fast DA lenses except the lonely 55mm... grrrr...) but at the same time i wouldn't say that i am unhappy with the gear i have or pentax overall.

so instead of real statistics which show the number of defects/failures and, perhaps more importantly, the number of first time vs repeat defects/failures what we have are threads like these where everyone takes a side without hearing the full story or seeing real data...

[tarsus]

I too am very angry at the position Pentax has put me regarding SDM. I have never owned any other brand of DSLR going back 10 years when I began a career as a newspaper reporter and photo journalist. I have always promoted Pentax as an alternative, especially price versus features, to Nikon, Canon, etc. Now, I cannot in good conscious recommend Pentax. What am I supposed to say, great cameras for the money, but don't buy their high-end lenses? I was so looking forward to getting the K5 along with the new 18-135, but passed because of the SDM debacle. I am tentatively looking at buying into a new system, a prospect I would never have predicted in a million years. The silence on the SDM issue shows a disregard for customers that is so blatant as to be unbelievable. I will miss the ease of use and amazing number of features for the money, but I will not continue to use a camera system that the company will not support.

[Peter Zack]

This petition idea isn't about a select number of unhappy users. There's a much bigger picture here.

Every Pentax owner or person that would like to see Pentax do well should want threads like this off the internet. Imagine that you have a Canon Xti and are ready for a real camera. You've decided that either the Nikon D7000 or Pentax K-5 are the best options.

You go online and see threads like this and think, "what if I want a 60-250mm or a 16-50mm? Nikon doesn't seem to have many issues with their lenses. Pentax appears to have SDM issues. I'll buy a Nikon.

Plus what if you decide on one of the SDM lenses in a years time? Would you risk it? I wouldn't give Pentax $50 for a DA*16-50mm no matter what the warranty. I've had 3 of them and they all died.

The point is, to use our collective membership to tell them, we want this addressed. Replace the SDM system with something that works and make screwdrive available as a backup option.

I think 10,000 members is a good number. If they considered that each signature represented one potential DA*16-50mm or 50-135mm sale that is on hold, that could be $750,000 in sales. That doesn't take into account the lurkers who decided on buying Canon or Nikon because conversations like this turned them away.

So the idea is for the community good, not just for a selected group of members. We PM each other and get everyone to sign the petition, maybe, just maybe we can get some action.

[tarsus]

There is an active petition. Google SDM petition. We need to all sign it.

[JHD]

There is an active petition. Google SDM petition. We need to all sign it.

DONE! And thanks for pointing that out.

"I was tempted to buy an SDM lens or two but reports of SDM failures are so common I can't justify spending my hard earned money on an expensive liability. Please address the SDM issue."

[benjikan]

There is an active petition. Google SDM petition. We need to all sign it.

Thanks

PS...I signed the Petition and I was number "1111" I'm in to numerology.

[Peter Zack]

I did not know this petition was already going. Now we need to PM our online friends here and get everyone to sign. 1112 is a nice start but not enough.

Link to the petition.

[pb_red]

You go online and see threads like this and think, "what if I want a 60-250mm or a 16-50mm? Nikon doesn't seem to have many issues with their lenses. Pentax appears to have SDM issues. I'll buy a Nikon.

really? i googled nikon swm / canon usm / sigma hsm "lens autofocus problems" and all of those queries return a ton of hits.

in fact, since canikon produce much higher volumes of lenses chances are the number of uses who experience problems is much higher. however, this is all pure internet speculation. the bottom line is that we don't have the statistics necessary for an apples to apples comparison and without the data these posts are just internet rants.

anyway, my point isn't that there isn't a problem with SDM or that pentax shouldn't do anything about it. my point is that saying that this problem is exclusive to pentax is just silly. technology breaks. that's a fact. moreover, the more complex the technology is, which is the case now as opposed to 10 years ago, the higher the chances are that things will break.

the real question is how you deal with it. especially if your income depended on this technology...

[macTak]

I was so looking forward to getting the K5 along with the new 18-135, but passed because of the SDM debacle.

In case you didn't know the DA18-35 is not SDM but DC, another type of in-lens focusing motor.

[Class A]

Certainly I don't have Ben's profile but I've been a loyal supporter and sold plenty of Pentax cameras over the years to new shooters. This is something I will not do today.

Why not? I'm unhappy about some Pentax lens price developments but they still make great value for money bodies and one can use them with old Pentax glass, screw mount (or DC) Pentax glass, Sigma glass, Tamron glass, etc. I still recommend Pentax bodies to people but would warn them about getting an SDM zoom (the primes seem to be doing OK).

We need 10,000 unique names on the document to make it real. Then we send it to Ned.

I'd send it to Japan. Ned doesn't seem to be among the decision makers at Pentax (technology wise).

I think 10,000 is very ambitious. There are 31,165 users on this forum and I don't think you can mobilise a third of them. Also I'm sceptical about the impact. Pentax must know about the SDM problem and if they were able to fix it, they would have done it already, no?

technology breaks. that's a fact.

Yes, but I've yet to come across a forum post that complains about a Sigma HSM being broken, whereas the stories about SDM failures are legion. Even die hard Pentax fans will warn you about the 16-50 and the 50-135.

There is robust technology (ring motors) and there is failure prone technology (miniature SDM motor driving a zoom lens). People take their pick.

[Peter Zack]

anyway, my point isn't that there isn't a problem with SDM or that pentax shouldn't do anything about it. my point is that saying that this problem is exclusive to pentax is just silly. technology breaks. that's a fact. moreover, the more complex the technology is, which is the case now as opposed to 10 years ago, the higher the chances are that things will break.

the real question is how you deal with it. especially if your income depended on this technology...

I never said that the others don't have issues. These are mechanical devices after all and each of them can have issues, no matter the brand or the price you paid.

You've got to be kidding. There is a problem. Ben is proof, I'm proof and so are many others. I had 3 SDM lenses fail and repaired then fail again. Some warranty and some not. It's cost me a tidy sum out-of-pocket.

The real issue is twofold. The motor is substandard and needs a redesign. It's a PITA when your lens fails during a paid shoot. Plus having a spare involves serious added expense with no guarantee that it will work if needed. It's well-known that an SDM lens that doesn't get regular use can 'stick' and not work.

The second issue is having a proven and reliable AF in body motor that we can't use. The focus throw of a (non macro) AF lens is far to short for accurate manual focusing. So why not do a firmware update so allow us a backup position. I'm sure every SDM owner who's lens is now out of warranty would like this option.