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11-10-2010, 04:46 AM   #16
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I wouldn't call myself a professional, that implies my sole income is derived purely from my photography. I'm also a musician, and in both fields I have to deal with a lot of equipment snobbery and most of it is complete and utter BS. Some people say Pearl flutes aren't as good as Murumatsu dispite the fact that half the flute makers from pearl originally worked for Murumatsu.

You get the same kind of crap from people who own gold or platinum flutes turning up their noses at silver flutes - an opinion that is based on the fallacy that silver instruments make a harsher sound - again utter BS - in realidy no one can really tell the difference. If you want a better sound, don't get gold flute: get a wood flute. I play a Cocus wood flute that is 103 years old, and it sounds better than any other modern instrument I have compared it to (including other wooden instruments), an opinion shared by others who have heard this instrument.

I use four camera systems Canon,Nikon,Pentax and Leica...and it really is just a choice between what kind of image I want to create, and more importantly what kind of lens I want to use. Brand doesn't mean as much as others think, in the end it is the image that matters.

11-10-2010, 07:29 AM   #17
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To be clear, Shane, I'm talking about megapixel count. Another pro on this thread said he used the K10D, which is about the same MP count as my W80. For most purposes, 10 MP is enough. Newspapers I deal with provide 10 MP cameras to their staff. I can't tell the difference between 8X10 prints from my W80 and my K20D.
As far as "having a name" is concerned, that helps no matter what equipment you use. Occasionally a wedding client may be impressed with the fact you use Nikon or Canon, because these companies have huge advertising budgets (factored into the price of equipment) that have sold the general public on the name, but in decades of doing this, I've only had one editor ask me what I shoot (last year), and he ended up buying a K20D.
My final advice, based up the wisdom of decades and an ability to recognize trends, is don't worry at all about what will work for professional photography. Digital technology and highly sophisticated auto functions is killing professional photography as we know it. I'm still making the same rates I did during the early '90s, and that market is shrinking rapidly, while the cost of bread is about 10 times what it was then. Because most anyone with decent equipment can P&S while rapidly running up their shutter count and luck into a good shot from hundreds of exposure, and then gladly give it away--just to be published, the value of images has hit rock bottom, and it's getting worse every year.
I can give you dozens of examples just from the past year to back this up. Most recently I was contacted by a multi-billion dollar company who wanted to use my images for a "direct mail" promotion, although their contract included billborads and everything imaginable. As soon as I asked what they paid, they stopped talking to me. They know that with a little fishing, they can find a good image for free.
It's not just publishable pics that are suffering. Wedding photographers are feeling the pinch as well, because most prospective brides have an Uncle Joe who just bought a fancy Nikon or Canon and will record their event for nothing.
There's really no future in it.
11-10-2010, 09:43 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by JustShane Quote
Your post is amazing. I've ALWAYS wanted to believe that it isn't so much about the equipment, but the photographer and his eye.

However, the internet (*cough* dpreview *cough*) makes you think twice. Hence my thread.

I really do hope what you are saying is true. It gives me a lot of courage going forward...
Just look at the www.pentaxphotogallery.com and you can see for yourself. The gallery is for the most part what got me to buy into Pentax.
11-10-2010, 10:28 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ron Kruger Quote
y-just to be published, the value of images has hit rock bottom, and it's getting worse every year.

I can give you dozens of examples just from the past year to back this up. Most recently I was contacted by a multi-billion dollar company who wanted to use my images for a "direct mail" promotion, although their contract included billborads and everything imaginable. As soon as I asked what they paid, they stopped talking to me. They know that with a little fishing, they can find a good image for free.
It's not just publishable pics that are suffering. Wedding photographers are feeling the pinch as well, because most prospective brides have an Uncle Joe who just bought a fancy Nikon or Canon and will record their event for nothing.
There's really no future in it.
That's kinda somber for a fledgling photographer to hear, but I think it's not too far from reality. When you think about the sheer number of photographs floating around the internet alone, it's a mind boggling number. Flickr alone has over 4 billion images. If anything, you have to really stand out if you don't want to be swept in the tidal wave of mediocrity. And of course, that's going to involve. Learning the ins-outs of the K-R and photography in general. In any case, have fun. Then when you feel you're ready for some reality, start looking up the competition you'd be facing at the local level. If it's wedding photography, there'll be plenty of competition.

11-11-2010, 06:22 PM   #20
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I think it is best to be candid about all this.
There are free images everywhere, and microstock images dirt cheap. Images aren't worth much at all any more. Checking out the pentaxphotogallery will show you what amateurs can do (pros don't post there because their images are for sale, not for display on a camera companies' website). Are they all that good, or is the equipment that good? While there are some mediocure shots there, most are truly exceptional. Pros in denial may claim the superiority of their IQ, but it is overkill. The average guy today in auto can do what only the pros could do a decade ago. With good and great images for free, why should someone pay a great deal more for something just a little better?
The market is absolutely saturated with good, free images, and while there will always be some money to be made (if you specalize), it is becoming increasingly difficult to make a living at it.
11-11-2010, 06:31 PM   #21
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There is no substitute to good photography.

Some people are cognisant of this and are willing to pay for quality artwork (not just photos).
Those who are happy with ol' uncle Joe photographing for free their one and only event where they invest all that money in dressing up and looking the best they can have little appreciation for the value of photographic memoirs of their lives.
Amateurs may have reasonable skill to create decent work, but you take that gamble for those life events you'd want recorded for good...

Pros do it for a living, and for the most part do a great job at it - consistently and professionally. No gambles.
11-12-2010, 09:00 AM   #22
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I agree with you Ash, but the average person doesn't really recognize the difference between good and good enough. Besides, most of them (who don't know much about photography) think it's all about the equipment, not the user. Especially if Unkle Joe has a long lens or a big lens, they think he has professional equipment and can do just as well, or about as well, as a "high-priced" professional.
I realize and respect what wedding photographers do, mainly because I also shoot professionally. I'm asked occasionally to shoot a wedding, and I always refuse, suggesting they get a good wedding photographer, because I realize it is a specalized field and I couldn't do as good a job. Besides, I'd rather deal with animals than people.
I will add, however, that from what I've seen from local wedding photographers (who have storefronts) in this rural area, there are many who get into the profession with the idea that equipment makes all the difference. Unkle Joe will do it for free, but Aunt Mary has a shop, and she will do it for half of what those other guys charge. Truth is, she isn't much better, but she's got a Nikon.

11-12-2010, 01:53 PM   #23
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Well those are the people who would never be convinced it is worth paying money for photos.
And that may well be a culture shift as a result of access to and affordability of good gear, and perhaps more cheapskates (or less disposable income), but it all says value is placed elsewhere and/or ignorance abounds...
11-12-2010, 02:43 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
And that may well be a culture shift as a result of access to and affordability of good gear, and perhaps more cheapskates (or less disposable income), but it all says value is placed elsewhere and/or ignorance abounds...
Well, perhaps I'm not the norm, but as I grew to appreciate photography more, I was more apt to spend money on photos. I would've never even though of having an engagement shoot, and I did that because a friend of mine is a fantastic photographer, and I had begun to respect the art more.
11-13-2010, 05:07 PM   #25
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I used to make the mistake of thinking it was all about the gear. The last 2 agencies I joined I got in purely on teh strength of my portfolio. Not once has either of my agencies asked me what gear I have.

Gear is not important, good eye & timing are crucial.

As for free imagery wrecking the business, it has actually improved mine. I have earned more money from copyright infringements this year than sales. It just takes a little time to find those images being used.

As for Flickr, used correctly is an excellent promotional tool. I have sold stuff through my agencies from buyers finding images on my flickr stream.
11-14-2010, 10:00 AM   #26
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I've been watching this thread for a while, wanting to jump in, but I've been too busy (with professional photography...). So here we go.

It is absolutely possible to be a professional photographer with Pentax. I am one. I've been making a full time living for the last 2 years with Pentax gear. The majority of what I shoot falls into the outdoor/adventure sports category, and I not only think that Pentax is capable for professional photography in this realm, but I would go as far as to say that it is the best brand for this type of shooting. I know that is a bold statement.

I was already of the persuasion with the K-7, even thought it had some significant down falls in regards to other brands' offering. But I thought that when it all balanced out against what I do, it still came out on top. But now with the advent of the ultimate image quality of the 645D, and particularly the downright amazing K-5, I'm even more resolute about my gear choice and making such a bold statement. The K-5 kept everything about the K-7 that already made it such a strong outdoor/adventure contender and replaced all it's weakness with features that are on par with or beating it's class competitors. If I had the chance to start all over again with any system, and no current investments made, I would still choose Pentax again all over again. Hands down.

There are certainly a few things I would like too change or add about the system. But no matter what system you're in, you'll get that. I would like to see a more full professional grade prime lens offering, particularly a fast normal equivalent, pretty fast ultra-wide, a 135mm f/1.8 and a 500mm or 600mm f/4. I would love to se the sync speed up with the competition. The Af tracking is greatly improved, but there is still some room for improvement. Although, it is currently on par with the D7000 and 60D, so it's where it should be for it's class. I think in the next 12-24 months, there is absolutely room for another camera above the K-5. Something that is just balls out pro, and on spec to compete with the D3 and 1DmkIV, even if it is still aps-c, which I would be fine with.

I have little to no desire for FF. If it was offered, would I buy it? Most likely. But I'm fine without it, and if it never comes, I won't be overly disappointed. I care far more about functionality than format.

So all this to say that yes, it is very possible to be a working professional wih Pentax. And no, I don't think you'll be disappointed if you start heavily investing in to the system. In the last 3 years, Pentax has shown nothing but very impressive growth and technological advancement. Going from cameras that were always just a few too many months late to be cool and were always getting overshadowed by the competitors, to cameras that would just about on par to play with the big dogs equivelent, to a camera that is arguably the best aps-c camera ever.
11-16-2010, 08:25 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by JustShane Quote
((Disclaimer:: First, before anything else, I will say that this is NOT a troll topic and I'm NOT meaning to get people angry.))

Anyway, as some of you may already know, I recently purchased a K-R with the 18-55 and 55-300 lenses. It will arrive in a few days.
Though I no longer have any doubts about the strength and flexibility such a kit provides, I wonder what I'm going to do, say, 3 years from now with Pentax. (Assuming the K-r has enough staying power to last that long, which I'm sure it does.)

If Pentax does *not* release a full-frame body, will that hinder the brand from competing at a professional level? As of right now, I am NOT a professional and this has little impact upon my immediate future.
But will it down the road?

I am trying to improve my skills to the point where I might be able to earn a supplementary-income from this art. (Most likely through portrait photography, weddings, etc.)

Will deeply investing in the K-mount system make logical sense if that is my goal?
Or will I have to sell this all off in a few years to support another brand?

Your thoughts?
The downsides to Pentax are:
1. lack of lens availability
2. lack of FF body
3. slow SDM lenses.

In the realm of portraits and weddings those things matter a little but its not the end of the world. I use both Canon and Pentax for weddings and portraits - and nothing Pentax has available in digital can create the look for shooting a 135mm F2 lens on a FF body - or an 85mm F1.2 lens of a FF body... Still I use Pentax a lot at these events and sometimes I use it exclusively.

Some people are unaware that aperture is not equivalent between APS-c and FF and at a wedding with a busy/cluttered background those wide apertures can be really nice.
11-16-2010, 09:21 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by cwood Quote
The downsides to Pentax are:
1. lack of lens availability
2. lack of FF body
3. slow SDM lenses.

In the realm of portraits and weddings those things matter a little but its not the end of the world. I use both Canon and Pentax for weddings and portraits - and nothing Pentax has available in digital can create the look for shooting a 135mm F2 lens on a FF body - or an 85mm F1.2 lens of a FF body... Still I use Pentax a lot at these events and sometimes I use it exclusively.

Some people are unaware that aperture is not equivalent between APS-c and FF and at a wedding with a busy/cluttered background those wide apertures can be really nice.
I think you mean that DOF isn't the same between aps-c and FF. Aperture is always the same because it's a mathematical relation. f/2 on a 50mm will always be 25mm in diameter, and will always let the same amount of light in, but how that 25mm render the DOF depends on the sensor size that is looking through it.

But you're right. There are many lenses in FF systems that just flatout don't exist as options for us aps-c shooters. Not only talking about canikon shooters within their own systems not have equivalents, but more so, us Pentax shooters not even have the FF lenses to begin with, let alone aps-c equivs of them. The ones you mentioned come to mind, and the 200/2, and 24/1.4 also.

Not only do we not have those lenses, but they wouldn't be the same on our cameras anyways. In order to get the equivalent look as a 24/1.4 we would need a 16/1.2; for a 85/1.2 we would need a 125/1.0 and for a 200/2 we would need a 135/1.4. These are all lenses that it is pretty safe to say will never exist. And if they did, they would be massive and extraordinarily expensive.

I'm far less attached to FF, in and of itself, than I am of certain angle of view/DOF combinations. The other advantages of FF are becoming less, with the growth in sensor tech. But the optical advantages will be hard to overcome.
11-16-2010, 11:03 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
Aperture is always the same because it's a mathematical relation. f/2 on a 50mm will always be 25mm in diameter, and will always let the same amount of light in, but how that 25mm render the DOF depends on the sensor size that is looking through it.
The same amount of light will come through the lens but because of the smaller sensor the same amount of light does not hit the sensor. Therefore F2.8 on FF is equivalent to exposing at F4 on APS-C. But of course the more important factor in my example was DOF
11-16-2010, 05:54 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by cwood Quote
The same amount of light will come through the lens but because of the smaller sensor the same amount of light does not hit the sensor. Therefore F2.8 on FF is equivalent to exposing at F4 on APS-C. But of course the more important factor in my example was DOF
I'm by no means an expert on optical science, but I'm pretty sure you're misinformed. So what you're saying is that if you took a 5D and a 50, and made an exposure at 1/125th, f/5.6, iso200, then put the lens on a 40D, and made the exact same exposure, that the 40D photo would be 1 stop less exposed?

Yes, the same amount of light enters the lens, and yes part of that light doesn't hit the sensor, whereas it would have on a FF sensor. But, the light that isn't hitting the sensor is the same light that isn't part of the image anyways. The smaller sensor is cropping out the center of the image, and it's that cropped out light, which isn't part of the recorded image anyways, that isn't hitting the sensor. The amount of light at the pixel level is the same on either chip. The FF sensor isn't recording more light per pixel sight, it's recording more light in general because it's recording more image. Of course I could be wrong.

Anyone else want to chime in on this?
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