[sjwaldron]

Someone suggested this idea to me recently:
Attend sporting events (say a high school football/basketball game) and sell prints online (through smugmug or whatever). The person had purchased a large number of prints of her son in the past from a photographer who did just that. I've heard of it being done before, but I'm wondering what legal issues would be involved in something like that. I'm guessing having permission from the school district would be the best place to start.

I also attend Anime conventions and take a large number of photos of people in costume. In the past I've just put my processed/resized images on Flickr, but I was thinking of trying something like above by using an online system that would allow users to buy the jpeg or prints.

Has anyone has success with similar ideas?

[normhead]

A friend of mine, also named Norm, (I was a high school teacher, he taught in the same school) used to do that for golf tournaments. This was back in the days of film. He'd photograph each group as they came off the course, and offer to sell them prints. He'd rush them off to a local photo finisher with whom he'd made previous arrangements, and have people their prints back before the tournament banquet was done. He often made a couple grand for a weekend's work. At one point he was hiring my photography students to take the pictures. They'd do most of the work, he'd pay them $400 each for the weekend and still make a couple grand for himself. At one point he was making $30k-$40k a year just on golf tournaments.

Just looking at his business here are the components I'd say were key.

Get the orders at the event, a second person working the crowd for sales so the photographer can just focus on the pictures is a good idea, well worth the extra expense. Get the cash up front on the orders. Deliver before the end of the event. It made for a heck of a weekend, high pressure and go , go , go, but it paid him well. His average doing this during the years I knew him was about $20k a year take home, and it was a perfect compliment to his teaching position, in that most of these events were on weekends.

[eddie1960]

Deliver before the end of the event. It made for a heck of a weekend, high pressure and go , go , go, but it paid him well. His average doing this during the years I knew him was about $20k a year take home, and it was a perfect compliment to his teaching position, in that most of these events were on weekends.

I'd point out this should be both easier and more difficult. likely you aren't going to take stuff to a lab and turn it around though you could, but there are some pretty amazing portable printers now as well (kodak makes a dye sub specifically for this type of thing)
Permission from the school would be needed for anything you shoot on school property, and I would guess for most events of this type permission from the event organizers.
good luck with it

Not sure the Anime conventions would work the same, they may actually want a cut of proceeds as they make their money off booth rentals. you could rent a small booth and have someone doing quick post and print there and just keep rotating out memory cards while the shooter drums up business and collects money on the spot having them come back to the booth to collect their prints say 2 hours later

[sjwaldron]

Thanks for the information guys. My initial idea is just to put the images online using a system that allows people to order prints through a 3rd party, that way I would get a cut but not have to deal with the specifics of printing. I'd probably also have downloads available for say 3x the price of a print. Besides permission from the schools, I think the most important aspect would be to get the word out that pictures were available.

That being said I thing your ideas are more realistic about actually making money than my easier route.

Eddie, Anime convention do have booths that can be rented for artists and there are a few photographers who take photos and sell prints on the spot. What I have done in the past as it's fun is that I just walk around and ask for photos (last year at a big convention I had around 1000 cosplayer photos over the 3 days). The cosplayers love having their pictures taken 99% of the time. I just want to expand on that and offer up a service online so they can buy prints. So for this one I'm just wondering of anyone has done something similar and actually made some money at it. Initial costs would be pretty high depending on the convention (hotel, convention ticket, food, transportation etc...) probably around $500 for the bigger ones within driving distance.

[amoringello]

Legalities aside from selling photos from an event that may prohibit such behavior...

Check out http://photoreflect.com

It is a free photo hosting site that allows printing, either through third party or you can print yourself. They handle sales via various payment methods.

I used them for posting photos and making sales for the past couple of years.
The site takes some portion of sales, naturally... and they have some very minimal advertising mainly consisting of their name on pages. (No huge banners, movies, click-throughs, etc...)

I finally moved on the SmugMug, but not sure I like them much more. Really needs lots of customization.

My first requirement in any service is being able to password protect a gallery or set of photos. People often do not want photos of their kids open to the public. Photoreflect does that. So, for free, Photoreflect is a pretty decent service.

[Gashog]

I covered part of a wrestling tournament a few weeks back and there was a pro in the centre isle taking a pant load of pictures. I don't think he needed any special permission. The manager of one of the teams had gotten him invited. He crawled up and down the gym on his knees for a good 10 hours I'd guess. I looked at his web site a couple days later and he had over 1100 shots of the kids. I think he was getting $10.99 for a 5"x7" maybe? He had all his deals layed out so all a parent would have to do is toss through 1100 pics to find the series of their kid, pop it in the basket, and chose a package. Pretty slick....and I hope he sold enough to make it worth while because he definitely put the time in.
I got one good capture! It's in Fridays Advertizer!
I actually thought about doing this myself until I watched this other guy work. I guess it was an unusual and long event but, dam! That guy was workin'!

[Allison]

Clearing it with one of the coaches should suffice. I shoot hockey games (my husband is the coach). I have seen other photographers who don't have permission at games and hand out cards, but they don't get the same access as someone who has permission. Offering some copies to the school yearbook will go a long way in getting permission.

[sjwaldron]

I went with Zenfolio.com for the site. Thrilled with the service so far. (shameless plug: refer code of T5J-CD6-XKZ for 10% off to you and 10% to me if you sign up)

scottjwaldron.com

Went to a tiny anime convention last weekend and took photos/handed out cards. No luck with people buying prints though. I think I will need to hit up larger conventions and get a lot more photos of a lot more people.

Still haven't tried sporting events yet. You guys have good ideas I'll have to consider once I get motivation to try it. I don't even watch sports, so it's kind of difficult...

Right now I'm going through my old photos and seeing if anything is worthy of the new site.

[Gashog]

My wife just paid twelve bucks for a (crappy) team group shot done by the same guy who covered the event I mentioned above. He's actually in one of my shots from that day. So there you go...he's in like Flynn. He'll be doing all the sports stuff now I bet. My shots from that event were in at least three papers but he's hit the mother load! Parents wallets! Good for him.
There's definitely money to be made doing youth sports. You just have to get a shoe in there.

Edit: Just an after thought: This guy was announced by some of the coaches to the parents before hand. I think it legitimised him. So if you can talk to someone involved in whatever event you are planning on covering and have them spread the word that you'll be taking pictures which will be available etc. etc. You'll be providing a service instead of soliciting. Much easier to get money from people if your there under the premise of service provider and not solicitor....especially in this economy!

[SlickYamaha]

This is a great idea, I have actually thought this over many times. I work for the school system (technology, so im the guy everyone is thrilled to see when their whiteboard/computer/projector/speakers break) So i really have a great "in"... my only concern, (which my wife has drilled in me)... is getting hit by some parent who says "i didn't authorize you to take pictures of my kid". Now thats all fine and dandy, i have a smugmug account, so i can password protect the photos, but even then? if i get a great shot of a kid taking a hard swing on a bat, and the parent is ticked that i got a picture, whats the worst they can do? can they sue? or just make me take it down? In that aspect, what if i get a great "team" shot, and one of the parents who buys the picture, posts it on facebook for the world to see, is it now longer my problem now? If a parent complains that i took the photo, I cant MAKE the parent who posted it, take it down?

[Gashog]

There's no law against taking photographs , even of kids, in pub...lick.
Get ready for the big debate.

If a parent contacted me and was pissed off about a picture I took and wanted me to take it down, I would in a heartbeat.