[SlickYamaha]

So I have barely gotten my toenails wet in the photography world and already I have been volunteered as "My friend does photography, he can do your event for you!". Not that I mind because I do enjoy it, and if I can make a dollar or two, all the better. But I have no idea where to start. I have gone through all the pages about "what should i charge" and all that, I'm not as worried about that, as much as I am the legal aspect.

This is a co-worker of a friend of mine, he is having a surprise 40th birthday party for his wife and wants a photographer. He said he cant really afford a professional, and at first just wanted my friend to come take pictures with her P&S. So that right there tells me im not going to make much. (No biggy, experience is worth more than money) But it does kind of put me in a bind. I dont want to throw out a $50 an hour or something fee to the guy and have him laugh and say nevermind. But at the same time, i dont want to say $20 for the whole night just so I can get a job. So my thought was like $25 an hour? does that sound even remotely in the ball park? Also he said he wouldnt be able to pay me for about a week, usually I would say payment before services, but with this being a very close friend of mine's very close co-worker, and a fairly small event, im not too concerned.

Also, this is coming off to me as a very casual thing, not like a wedding, or first holy communion, or anything big like that. Its a 40th birthday party. Should I still have a full contract written up? just to cover myself? I mean even if he hates every picture and says screw it im not going to pay you, oh well, I lost out on 3 hours of my life, but gained 3 hours of experience.

I guess the last question is... He said he would pay for any of my supplies, (hard copies i assume) plus pay me directly. Would it just be easier for me to upload them all to snapfish or something and he can print out the copies that he really wants? or just print them all and say there ya go... that will be $20.

As you can see, im so new to this is scary, I will probably spend the next few hours going through the forum looking for other posts related to this, but any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[SpecialK]

I would pass on that job, unless you want practice directing people or using your flash. It's not like a wedding with certain discreet objectives or checklist of shots.

[SlickYamaha]

I would pass on that job, unless you want practice directing people or using your flash. It's not like a wedding with certain discreet objectives or checklist of shots.

Thats kinda what i thought, but I got to thinking, if I have friends who are networking for me already, and I have not even drained a full set of batteries yet... how can i start turning stuff down already? Granted, i'm not going to pick up any weddings or anything, but something this small, when all they want is an amateur with a P&S... how can i go wrong? even if I walk away with $20 in my pocket. Its more than I had before, and maybe ill learn a thing or two.

[Framed]

The biggest question I think you can ask yourself is 'do I want to get in to event photography down the road?' Either way, I don't see that you have anything much to lose. I don't think I'd like the pay later part though. Lots of pre-pro folks shoot just for the experience and portfolio building so I say if you can earn a little cash and have the experience and don't mind the possibility of walking away with only experience in your pocket should they decide to stiff you later.
Do you know what kind of lighting you would be dealing with? How many people will be there? Just a few other questions that would be my first thoughts to consider before accepting the job.
One other thing I would consider would be the prints. I would want to be picky about where they are printed. Word of mouth can be a powerful business builder so you want to make sure your prints look their best. Also, consider if you are going to want to sell your digital files down the road or not. (I'm a control freak and I do not sell digital files but I have several pro-photog friends that do and are quite happy and well paid doing so.) I know that seems like a lot to consider for this event but you could be setting a precedent for future word of mouth clients.
Speaking of a check list, if you do decide to do it, I would try to get an outline of just what the expectations are of you.
I'm probably way over thinking this from a business standpoint when the truth of the matter is you should probably just go shoot and have a good time with your new toy. (Emphasis on having a good time, if you feel it's going to cause you undue stress than for sure skip it.)

[SlickYamaha]

The biggest question I think you can ask yourself is 'do I want to get in to event photography down the road?'

No, I really dont plan on doing any event photos (minus the occasional friend or family member that may want something special) This would be purely to get my feet wet. The main thing i want to get into shooting is sports photography... not football/baseball, but more like Motocross, Mountain biking. Motorcycles etc.

Do you know what kind of lighting you would be dealing with? How many people will be there?

Nope, I actually just found out about the job second hand on Thursday. Hopefully she will get me more information on Monday.

One other thing I would consider would be the prints. I would want to be picky about where they are printed.

I actually was thinking about doing a SmugMug account. The pro version isnt bad at $150. (About the same as my XBOX subscription in my bachelor days lol) I know they have two companies to choose from, does anyone have any experience with either one?

Thanks for all the help!
What about the hourly fee. Should i do like $25 an hour, and then charge a little extra for photos? or just send them to SmugMug and pay the SmugMug base price with no share for me?

[Mike Cash]

[NaClH2O]

But Mike beat me to it.
There is just too much that is wrong with this, "can't pay yet", "best friend of a best friend" "super budget job" etc etc. I can see this evolving into some kind of payment brouhaha that either destroys your friendship with your friend or his friendship with his co-worker. Unless you are willing to do this for free for the experience or you get at least partial payment up front, I'd say stay away.

NaCl(nothing kills a friendship better than money issues)H2O

[SlickYamaha]

lol. Yeah, I know. But the way I see it, If he doesnt pay me in a week, he doesnt get the link to his smugmug pictures. Therefor making it entirely pointless to hire me in the first place.

I totally know how it will play out. 26 posts down this thread you will read me saying 'yep, he never paid me'. But... ya know what? Its no different than working as a backup guy for free for the experience. Everyone has to start somewhere, atleast this somewhere has the chance of making a few dollars.

[Framed]

I'm sorry I don't have any experience with smug mug at all. I think your fee is fair and reasonable but with all the money talk I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to go free point and shoot route. If not I agree with you here, nothing ventured nothing gained. As long as you are ok going in knowing it may be for experience only. Be sure and let us know the outcome!

[Mike Cash]

lol. Yeah, I know. But the way I see it, If he doesnt pay me in a week, he doesnt get the link to his smugmug pictures. Therefor making it entirely pointless to hire me in the first place.

I totally know how it will play out. 26 posts down this thread you will read me saying 'yep, he never paid me'. But... ya know what? Its no different than working as a backup guy for free for the experience. Everyone has to start somewhere, atleast this somewhere has the chance of making a few dollars.

The thing to do, then, is for the sake of the social niceties to engage in a polite fiction.

Say to the person, "Look, I've never done this sort of thing before and I can't guarantee that you'll get even one photo you like so I don't feel right charging you for it. Feed me at the party and we'll call it square. You just pay for the prints you want, if any."

Guys are famous for being willing to do things for a case of beer that they would never do for the cost of a case of beer. I suspect that they would also be willing to offer a case of beer in payment for something they would be reluctant to hand over the same amount of cash for. Just a thought, but you could ask for a case of beer as payment. It's the guy way of giving and accepting compensation without either side feeling things have been sullied by money.

If you're going to get screwed anyway, wouldn't you feel better if you at least come away with a meal and a case of beer?

[alohadave]

lol. Yeah, I know. But the way I see it, If he doesnt pay me in a week, he doesnt get the link to his smugmug pictures. Therefor making it entirely pointless to hire me in the first place.

I totally know how it will play out. 26 posts down this thread you will read me saying 'yep, he never paid me'. But... ya know what? Its no different than working as a backup guy for free for the experience. Everyone has to start somewhere, atleast this somewhere has the chance of making a few dollars.

Do it for free and count the experience as your payment.

There is working for cheap when you are just getting started, and then there is working for a laughably small amount of money for a FOAF. You are waffling over charging $20 for a multi-hour job that you've never shot before and worrying if you'll even get paid.

[Mike Cash]

Do it for free and count the experience as your payment.

There is working for cheap when you are just getting started, and then there is working for a laughably small amount of money for a FOAF. You are waffling over charging $20 for a multi-hour job that you've never shot before and worrying if you'll even get paid.

Multi-hour is correct. Don't forget the time you have to spend afterward going through the photos and post-processing them. If you care about what you hand to people that will be the bulk of time you spend on this anyway.

I kept waiting for someone else to ask this, but since no one has I guess I'll bite the bullet. You say you've just barely got your toes wet in photography and haven't even drained your first battery yet....Do you know enough about what you're doing and are you good enough at it to take on the responsibility of shooting an event for money? Is this indoors? Outdoors? Daytime? Evening? Are you going to be doing this with the kit lens and pop-up flash?

Doing something for free and with the clearly stipulated and understood caveat of "I've never done this before and you might not get any photos" is vastly different from the expectations that are in place when money is involved....especially if you're doing it for someone who gives the impression of being a piker and will likely look for any excuse to stiff you on the deal while still getting what he wants out of it. Which is something he will be able to do, despite your idea that all you have to do is not give him the link to the photos. You could do that if it were just the two of you. But you have a mutual friend (a female, let us not forget) standing in the middle. He works on her...she feels guilty/responsible because she recommended you, she doesn't want to lose her friend, she works on you because you've put her on the spot (so she thinks), you don't want to lose her as a friend, you cave and give the photos even though you got shafted. The chiseling piker comes away with what he wants and everybody else is screwed and bitter over it. Trust me; you're better off going for the meal and maybe a case of beer. Leave money out of it. The experience you're going to get out of this isn't going to be just picture taking experience.

Without having even heard how much (or how little) this is going to cost him, the guy is already saying "I can't pay for about a week." That doesn't scream something at you? I guarantee you he didn't tell the grocery store and the liquor store where he bought the party supplies that same line.

[Frogfish]

You could always say that you will do the shoot for free but the photos will be processed at the processor of your choice and will include a per photo commission. You can then post the PP'd shots on your SmugMug site (download protected and take orders by email).

I'm more worried though that you won't have the right equipment for the job .... good bounce flash for example is a must without (and even with at interior party events) low light lenses.

[SlickYamaha]

I'm more worried though that you won't have the right equipment for the job .... good bounce flash for example is a must without (and even with at interior party events) low light lenses.

I plan on taking my Kx, Sigma 530 Super flash, Omni bounce, Sigma 24-60mm f2.8, Tamron 10-24 f3.5-4.5 (only for a handful of shots, if that), and of course the obvious extra SD card, spare sets of batteries, cleaning wipe etc...

I realize I dont have a ton of experience (Kx says 2,453 shutter to be exact) , but we shall see... As i said, he was going to pay a friend of mine about the same for her to take pics with her P&S. I think all will go well.

My SmugMug site is Blink's Photos | SmugMug... obviously right now I have very little photos on there. (having just picked up the camera two months ago, and the outside temp not getting past 35deg since then) but its something if you guys/gals wouldnt mind taking a peek at and giving me some constructive criticism that would be great. I would say 3/4 of the pics were taking with my old P&S (to be honest), so the quality isnt that of the Kx, but I wanted to have something to build on.

*the site has not gone fully public yet. I have made 1 or 2 small references to it, but have not advertised for people to publicly view it yet, and dont plan too until spring/summer. Hence why the photos are not the best, nor the layout, It just helps me visualize things when i build them fully, then edit out the stuff i dont want.
Thanks.

[Mike Cash]

Any update? Has this event taken place yet?