[MRRiley]

Yup, and then the suspected pedo takes his accusers to court.......
And gets his name splashed about even more in that context.
It doesn't matter if he wins in court, he has still lost at life.

I know its a no win situation. All I am saying is that we can hardly object when someone else takes our photos while we are maintaining our right to shoot theirs or their kids.

[Jodokast96]

Sorry, don't know any pedophiles. Well, just one, legally -- a neighbor was convicted of statutory rape (he was 21, she was 17) and has been Registered Sex Offender for decades, with no further legal problems, but his name-face-address are public record. I never saw him loitering in parks and AFAIK he doesn't own a camera. I could have been in his situation but wasn't caught, and I don't loiter in parks either.

Looking back, I see how you confused what I said. When you were talking about not standing out, that's what I was referring to "like real pedophiles do".

[RioRico]

Looking back, I see how you confused what I said. When you were talking about not standing out, that's what I was referring to "like real pedophiles do".

Do you personally know any ''real' (convicted) paedophiles? Have you observed their behaviour? Can you describe it for us?

As has been noted, most sexual abuse of children is committed by power-figures who are close to them, most often relatives, otherwise mentors (teachers, pastors, etc), NOT by mysterious strangers lurking in the grass with big cameras. If we have a profile of how a 'real' paedophile acts, it's like this: They act like daddy. Or mommy. Or uncle. Or aunty. Or the reverend. Or the coach. Or a cop.

And then we have the grandmother who shoots pics of toddlers bathing, who's busted for abuse when the film is developed. This has happened. Are you innocent?

[TomK]

Excerpt from: Murder of Megan Kanka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The murder of Megan Kanka occurred on July 29, 1994 in Hamilton Township, Mercer County, New Jersey. The 7 year old Kanka was raped and murdered by her neighbour Jesse Timmendequas. The murder attracted national attention and subsequently led to the introduction of "Megan's Law", which requires law enforcement to disclose details relating to the location of registered sex offenders.

Note:
by her neighbour
by her neighbour
by her neighbour
No camera involved.

[johnmflores]

It's amazing how some of us seem to have forgotten how to strike up conversations with strangers. "Hey, how you doing? Nice camera. What are you taking picture of?" Or. "Nice day. I love this park. Reminds me of when I was a kid. Do you mind if I take some photos? I take pictures for fun and I'm practicing taking pictures with this new lens I got..."

Not a perfect test by any means, but 9 times out of 10 it can go a long way towards breaking down those stereotypes and related fears that many codify the world with...

[séamuis]

It's amazing how some of us seem to have forgotten how to strike up conversations with strangers. "Hey, how you doing? Nice camera. What are you taking picture of?" Or. "Nice day. I love this park. Reminds me of when I was a kid. Do you mind if I take some photos? I take pictures for fun and I'm practicing taking pictures with this new lens I got..."

Not a perfect test by any means, but 9 times out of 10 it can go a long way towards breaking down those stereotypes and related fears that many codify the world with...

That's all great, and its certainly something I do often, but our ability to do so, I think isn't the real issue. It's the fact that we essentially have to (more so, those who by no fault if their own, fit a stereotype with a socially negative response trigger) to have to go out of our way to essentially prove we are not a threat, when in reality we really shouldn't be seen as a threat simply because we are carrying a camera. I'm all for engagement and doing anything necessary to help stomp out this serious social problem. But the fact that I have to is what hurts, the fact that it's necessary because of such irrational fears. I could literally walk down through Forsyth park, even without a camera, here in savannah and if I were to say, 'you have a beautiful little girl' or something else completely innocent and I'm already suspect. Add a camera and a surefire pedophile. No, the problem is much deeper and convoluted than a simple lack of engagement and conversation. I won't argue that it will help, but it's a very small step.

[GeneV]

Yup, and then the suspected pedo takes his accusers to court.......
And gets his name splashed about even more in that context.
It doesn't matter if he wins in court, he has still lost at life.

I have been asked several times to become a "big brother" in the state program for troubled kids. I have one female friend who has done that and been a huge factor for success in a girl's life. I won't go near it.

Fifteen years ago, we had a celebrated case of a city councilor who was a "big brother." His "little brother" accused him of rape. At every time the child alleged rape, his "big brother" was provably somewhere else. One time, he was photographed by an ATM 10 miles away. (Lucky there was a photo). Criminal charges were dropped when it then came out that the child (who probably had been abused by his parent long ago) made this accusation about his scoutmaster and about every adult who had tried to help him. Never mind the facts, the councilor's life was ruined, and he left the state. We represented him in a civil case, but as you said, that is little help.

We are fast approaching a time when it will be hard for a child to get help from a teacher, counselor or member of the community. It is sad. (The teachers who are actually having sex with teenage students are not helping, either).

[Wheatfield]

I have been asked several times to become a "big brother" in the state program for troubled kids. I have one female friend who has done that and been a huge factor for success in a girl's life. I won't go near it.

<snip>
We are fast approaching a time when it will be hard for a child to get help from a teacher, counselor or member of the community. It is sad. (The teachers who are actually having sex with teenage students are not helping, either).

A friend of mine is a dispatcher for a local taxi company. One of the things they are tasked with is driving kids to and from school. It's a lucrative deal for the drivers. They discount the fare, but in return they have guaranteed trips every day when it tends to be a bit slow.
The only problem is, many of the drivers WILL NOT allow an unattended child (or children) in their car, for reasons already discussed.
I don't know if their paranoia is justified or not, but they are afraid for a reason, and in this case, it hurts everyone.
Depending on who is driving that morning, kids don't get to school on time, or in the afternoon are left stranded on the sidewalk.

[Jodokast96]

Rico, you keep missing my point. They aren't lurking in the shadows. They are blending in. They are acting just like Daddy, Mommy, Uncle, Aunt, Reverend, Coach, or Officer. Just like you suggest we as photographers do. Got it now? Nothing to debate here.

[MRRiley]

And I bet a fair share are babysitters and nanny's or other childcare providers.... thus the ubiqutous "nanny-cam." The point being, people who have private and trusted access to children have a far easier time molesting them than any guy in the park with a camera could ever dream.

Mike

[RioRico]

Rico, you keep missing my point. They aren't lurking in the shadows. They are blending in. They are acting just like Daddy, Mommy, Uncle, Aunt, Reverend, Coach, or Officer. Just like you suggest we as photographers do. Got it now? Nothing to debate here.

And I bet a fair share are babysitters and nanny's or other childcare providers.... thus the ubiqutous "nanny-cam." The point being, people who have private and trusted access to children have a far easier time molesting them than any guy in the park with a camera could ever dream.

Mike has it right. I should have been more explicit: 'they' aren't LIKE those authority figures -- 'they' ARE daddy, mommy, uncle, aunty, teacher, coach, pastor, cop, nanny, etc. My younger sisters were abused by their stepfather and older stepbrothers, not by any friendly blending-in strangers. And that abuse was ignored by our mother. (All but my sisters are now dead. No closure, except knowing that it won't happen again.) Look at any stats of abuse and you'll see that it's overwhelmingly the pattern. Molesters are close, not distant.

[johnmflores]

That's all great, and its certainly something I do often, but our ability to do so, I think isn't the real issue. It's the fact that we essentially have to (more so, those who by no fault if their own, fit a stereotype with a socially negative response trigger) to have to go out of our way to essentially prove we are not a threat, when in reality we really shouldn't be seen as a threat simply because we are carrying a camera. I'm all for engagement and doing anything necessary to help stomp out this serious social problem. But the fact that I have to is what hurts, the fact that it's necessary because of such irrational fears. I could literally walk down through Forsyth park, even without a camera, here in savannah and if I were to say, 'you have a beautiful little girl' or something else completely innocent and I'm already suspect. Add a camera and a surefire pedophile. No, the problem is much deeper and convoluted than a simple lack of engagement and conversation. I won't argue that it will help, but it's a very small step.

I can see your point...to a degree. Some of what's being described is just human behavior. Have you ever walked into a bar or diner or other place where you were the unfamiliar face? Very often the first reaction is a room of people rotating their heads to see who just wandered in. Same with the playground. I imagine smaller towns and cities most everyone at the playground knows each other or is at least familiar with the faces of "the regulars". Whether or not you have a camera, you arrive as a stranger.

[séamuis]

I can see your point...to a degree. Some of what's being described is just human behavior. Have you ever walked into a bar or diner or other place where you were the unfamiliar face? Very often the first reaction is a room of people rotating their heads to see who just wandered in. Same with the playground. I imagine smaller towns and cities most everyone at the playground knows each other or is at least familiar with the faces of "the regulars". Whether or not you have a camera, you arrive as a stranger.

of course, it happens a lot, especially when I’m in the philippines, but I think you and i both know there is a difference between looking at an unfamiliar face and being stared down with an obvious resentment, anger and fear. because there is a difference between not knowing someone and not knowing someone and assuming they are a threat, which most people don’t do just because they don’t know someone or that someone isn’t a ’normal’ sight. maybe you have never encountered this before but I have, and I’m a freelance photojournalist here in the city, people see me all the time with camera gear and a press badge around my neck. but despite that, if I were to go to the park, by myself with a camera and I point that camera anywhere near a child, its like all the parents, (mostly mothers) instantly start looking at me like a threat.

[johnmflores]

true enough. we're differ only be degree....

OT, btw, you enjoying Baguio? I haven't spent much time there myself but came through as we looped through Banaue, the Cordillera Mountains and Sagada. A lot cooler up there!

[séamuis]

true enough. we're differ only be degree....

OT, btw, you enjoying Baguio? I haven't spent much time there myself but came through as we looped through Banaue, the Cordillera Mountains and Sagada. A lot cooler up there!

I don’t get to spend enough time there thats for sure, I’m planning on going back in a few months. did you enjoy Sagada? I wanted to visit the last time I was in the country but I ended up spending my time in Vigan (I highly recommend it if you haven’t already been. beautiful little town) I love Baguio because (besides having great weather!) its a lot like manila in terms of urbanized availability (does that make sense?) i.e.: you don’t miss anything from the big city, but you get to enjoy it all in a much smaller, much more beautiful and slower paced atmosphere. love, love, love Baguio. I’m really looking forward to the festivals next year, but I’m not sure if I will be able to make it back that early. Baguio will always be a second home, hopefully one day my primary home.