[Jodokast96]

CW, I'm more than willing bet that all these guys will rail on about a woman's right to choose (which is mentioned nowhere in the Constitution BTW), but are completely against choice here.

[straightshooter]

Personal note: I've been too close to victims of firearm accidents: my cousin, and a neighbor's son, and another neighbor, all killed while "playing around" with guns. In USA we treat deadly weapons as toys. This is insane. I've several relatives who were cops, some very prominent, and they all knew co-workers who ate their pistols. This is tragic. We cannot trivialize the danger of firearms possession.

I could not agree with you more. Guns are NOT toys and yes, many people do treat them that way (but many do not). And many people mix alcohol with guns just as they do cars which is stupidity in either case. Everybody raise your hand if you've ever had a DUI or even driven drunk. I admit I've done it but thankfully I didn't get caught or hurt anyone.

Unfortunately the "eat the bullet" is way more common than it should be among LEO's but carrying a firearm is part of the job so it's kind of a Catch-22 situation there. Even if you make him/her turn in the weapon at the end of shift, what about when they are on shift and have eight or more hours armed? And what about the personal backup that most officer's, including my brother, carry? How do you keep a LEO from suicide by firearm when carrying a gun is integral to the job. Unless something can be done about the stress of that job, that's still going to happen.

I still go back to my earlier post. We're not going to change each other's minds on the subject so why are we beating our heads against the wall. Yeah, ok I've been laughing and having fun baiting a couple of people but we are still way off subject as far as the OP goes.

If you feel insecure photographing in an area, then di di mau out of there and photograph at the zoo or something. The main thing is to know what is going on around you at all times or as my brother says, "Stay tactical."

CW

[mikeSF]

wow, an interesting discussion here. I almost always shoot alone and it seems the best spots are sometimes in very shady areas. Just a couple weeks ago i was out at night shooting a city scene and there was a guy in a volkswagen van next to me who got out of the van, came over to me, and then urinated on the ground so close to me that i almost got splashed. he then brushed his teeth and drove away...WTH?! I was shooting 2 min panos, so i stayed put and acted unphased.

anyhow, i never carry any deterrent or defensive device and could probably benefit from pepper spray. I am not a fan of firearms nor knives for personal defense, so you wont find me advocating that method. I have been mugged at knifepoint in Houston and also had a smash and grab in my car while i was out of view. I even had a friend who was senselessly murdered by a drug hungry criminal who broke into his place of work looking for money. it is a dangerous world, no question.

be safe people.

[manwithumbrella]

wow, an interesting discussion here. I almost always shoot alone and it seems the best spots are sometimes in very shady areas. Just a couple weeks ago i was out at night shooting a city scene and there was a guy in a volkswagen van next to me who got out of the van, came over to me, and then urinated on the ground so close to me that i almost got splashed. he then brushed his teeth and drove away...WTH?! I was shooting 2 min panos, so i stayed put and acted unphased.

I guess that you should consider yourself lucky that he only felt the need to urinate. If I was aware that someone was intending to pee that close to me, and I wasn't in a public bathroom, I think that I would move away rather quickly, no matter what I was doing. Maybe this could be a project, if not for you, some other photog in your city, to document the public street as personal toilet phenomenon.

[Aardvark]

I guess that you should consider yourself lucky that he only felt the need to urinate. If I was aware that someone was intending to pee that close to me, and I wasn't in a public bathroom, I think that I would move away rather quickly, no matter what I was doing. Maybe this could be a project, if not for you, some other photog in your city, to document the public street as personal toilet phenomenon.

Oh dear, I fear that if this was undertaken in the UK, that it would be the photographer that would be at risk of arrest and prosecution under several grounds.

1 infringing civil and personal liberty of other individuals

2 incitement to break the law (urinating in public is illegal unless you are pregnant and using a policeman's helmet)

3 Capturing of obscene or pervers images for commercial gain

and probaly many more.

We cant even take photo's of our grandkids playing in swings in the park and I belive that several first schools now have a ban on parents taking photos and video at school sports days and swimming galas.

Anyhow back on topic....has anyone ever taken along some muscle when they went shooting in dodgy areas, you know, a mate who can handle himself or a bouncer etc.

I never even thought about this, years ago the good Mrs Varkie and I had many good holidays to the far east , Hong Kong, Singapore, Thailand Bankok, and most nights I was out taking street scenes with tripod and we were never bothered....I know MRs Varkie is scary to me but in those days a petite 5ft 2 blonde weighing 110lbs would not appear to scare anyone else.......

Ilike the idea of having one of those extendable batton truncheon things for personal protection but I suspect that I would be arrested again for having one of these in the UK.

[Chex]

When my wife and I were first married in the mid 70s we lived in what was considered the roughest and most dangerous part of a Canadian prairie city. We never felf in danger walking at nights or at anytime, I do realize that times have changed some what since then. What we did to make ourself feel safer and I think it did work was act like we lived there. So if you are traveling to photograph some rougher part of town do not act frightened, or stare at people or gawk but be as normal as you can.

Sounds like you lived in Forest Lawn or Bowness area of Calgary in the 70's? Prime biker gang communities in the 70's and 80's!
Makes me glad I'm now in a place that has under 10K people.. no real worries about this kinda stuff.

[Mehlsack]

as far as i know extenable batons are prohibited in germany as well, i wanted to buy one exspecially for the outdoot/night shooting, but that is not so easy here in "old" europe ^^

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Last edited by Mehlsack; 10-23-2011 at 04:34 AM.

[Ailuropoda]

If I'm going to be focused on something, I pick areas that would make it difficult to sneak up on me. When I did astronomy, I used to pick playground towers because the pebbles made a silent approach difficult and you can't climb up without shaking things and alerting me. Not too long ago, I was shooting the skyline at night from a dark and quiet area. I setup on a pedestrian bridge because you can't walk up without disrupting me. It also had a lovely perspective and balance my tripod on the railing was the easiest way of getting the elevation that I wanted. I picked another spot that was off the beaten path, largely for the view, but there was a lot there in terms of personal safety. While it was a low visibility area, it was near the local "occupy" camp. If I screamed, they would have heard me. There was also a steep incline, which was difficult to go down with any great speed or stealth. Thirdly, it was an area where if you were approaching, you were approaching me. I wasn't going to mistake you for casually going about your own business.
If I simply just like an area, I'm constantly listening for any signs of movement and observing changes in shadows. It's something that I do out of habit. I think it has to do with shooting squirrels, either with my water pistol as a kid trying to keep them out of my garden, or with my telephoto as a photographer.

[mikeSF]

sometimes when i felt there may be trouble, i have discreetly fired off a couple of frames of the suspicious characters or license plates in case an ID is needed later. dont forget you are holding a great camera in your hands which could perhaps come in handy later. In fact, i bought a used camera once that i was pretty sure had been stolen and while i was pretending to examine it, fired off shots of the seller's face and his car while he wasnt looking.

[Lloydy]

A couple of years ago a youth demanded my camera while I was walking through a fairly rough area on my own. He was about 18 and had the look of a junkie.
I carry the K10 on a home made across the shoulder strap, and I started to take it off but told the youth "If I take the camera off, I'll smash it on the ground, I get the insurance, you get **** all" He stood there for a moment then ran off. He saw that I was serious, I would have swung the camera like a medieval weapon at his head. I guess I got lucky, but I'd do it again.

[magkelly]

I'm a small gal. I nearly got mugged/raped years ago in NYC. I had multiple small knives on me. He shoved me up against a wall and started to remove my clothing. I cut him unexpectedly which made him jump back and then I kicked the living shiz out of him before he had a chance to do worse to me. I survived, he got arrested, and I got neither mugged nor raped that night. I carry 3 knives and pepper spray and you bet I am prepared to use them, but I am not a fool. I know how to use my knives. I got training in street fighting before I started carrying them. I know not to just flash a knife in my bigger opponent's face thereby giving him the opportunity to take it before I can use it. I don't much like guns, though I'm fine with qualified people using them for hunting and such, but lately I am considering carrying a small gun too. That's how bad it's gotten here lately.

Any person that tries to mug me or worse is not going to get a passive response from me. Maybe that used to work, way back when, when muggers and the like were a tamer bunch, but lately? There's been way too much senseless violence and people getting hurt or killed anyway for me to believe that's effective anymore. Every convenience store owner in this town, every take out place, they're nearly all armed, and rightly so. We have muggings happening in broad daylight at the local grocery store and I actually live in the "good" side of town.

When criminals get more violent it's prudent to learn to defend yourself. You cannot just expect them to walk away anymore just because you offer up the wallet. Yeah, they might, but then again they just might respond by knocking you down and hurting you too.

[Ratmagiclady]

as far as i know extenable batons are prohibited in germany as well, i wanted to buy one exspecially for the outdoot/night shooting, but that is not so easy here in "old" europe ^^

I miss how it used to be in Massachusetts: they were legal to carry, but if you used it, it was a truncheon you'd have to be able to justify the use of. I could live with that.

(The NRA wanted more guns and even knives, but a gal couldn't carry a *stick,* which is actually useful defensively in better ways. Especially if you have some training. I ended up carrying mine anyway a while, (They don't search girls so much.) but even in Texas they were made *so* illegal and I'd already had *so* much police hasslement that I ended up being like, 'It actually *would* be easier to go buy a pistol, ' (And in the interim, going with something less-legal and mostly less-reassuring, but smaller.)

Kind of the opposite of what Jodokast says: they want to dictate everything about my own body but reserve the right to shoot anyone with extended magazines should they so feel like it.



Politics aside, sticks really are the thing, though. The ideal solution for photo security would be some kind of stick you can shoot with, or fight with, in a pinch. Some kid was saying to me recently, 'I want a sword-cane,' and I was like, 'Unless you intend to murder someone when they aren't looking, I'd just go with a regular cane.'

But, yeah, Mags, especially with all the meth around these days while the cops drive up the price of weed, no messing around when it's about sex, hate-crimes... Or someone's on meth, It's for keeps. . ( People on crack made bad decisions, but they did it *slow.* These meth-heads seem to make bad decisions *fast.* Slow pursuit and be gone or whatever. (Hitting em hard in the leg works great. ) (Also don't carry more weapons than you can retain.)


And, don't think with weapons. If it comes to that, someone's bound to be having a bad night, and it's a good chance that's you.

[magkelly]

I don't want to get all the way into it but a few years back one of my relatives had the living shiz beat out of him for no reason beyond the fact that his mugger decided it would be fun. He did what you're supposed to do, remained passive and surrendered his wallet and they still hurt him. He now carries a weapon (actually a couple) and anyone who does mess with him is in for a surprise.

Bad people around here don't just rob convenience stores and gas stations in the middle of the night anymore. They don't just take the money and leave you alone. They bust into your business, your home, your car, and they pistol whip you or even kill you just because they feel like doing it. I guess it is drugs most likely, Oxy and meth are huge here, or maybe it's organized crime's influence, but the criminal element in this town has definitely gotten bolder and far more violent these past few years. (I wish they'd just all smoke some weed. At least pot smokers are generally mellow people, unlike meth, Oxy users...)

Used to be someone broke into your house grabbed your Christmas presents from under the tress and scrammed while you were out, but petty theft is definitely giving way to something a whole lot more violent. I keep trying to talk my parents into leaving, but they keep saying it's like that everywhere now. The sad thing is? I suspect they are right. Mayberry just doesn't exist anymore, sigh...

[redrockcoulee]

Sounds like you lived in Forest Lawn or Bowness area of Calgary in the 70's? Prime biker gang communities in the 70's and 80's!
Makes me glad I'm now in a place that has under 10K people.. no real worries about this kinda stuff.

Boyle Street (97th) of Edmonton in the mid 70s and then in Calgary Tuxedo Park which was pretty boring. When my brother moved to Ramsey the bank told him it was too rough of a neighbourhood to own a house. In Medicine Hat one morning I thought I forgot to lock the doors of the convertible that was parked on the street, and sure enough I had not, but then the windows were down as was the top. Just glad it did not rain (or snowed). Glad to live in a city with no rough areas although I guess where I live is considered one by some people's standards.

My wife visited New York a few years ago and stayed at some hostel in Bronx or Brooklyn not sure as was never in New York. People told her afterwards it was a very seedy part of the city. I think she was more afraid of seeing rats than being mugged or worse. Again she behaved as if she lived there and therefore was less likely to be even noticed.

[Blue]

Somewhat charged and misleading language here. I'm sure that a gun is not the only way you can think of for self protection.
This is the sort of language that NRA boobies use. Rational people use more rational wording.

No, that is a fact of Illinois law.