Thoughts on the K-02

pinholecam · 08-27-2012, 07:30 AM

1. EVF
2. Thinner sides to make it look smaller
3. Faster CDAF (circa 2012, there is no leeway for sloppy CDAF as competition from m4/3 and Sony RX100 has upped the game) ;
Maybe not as fast, but must be close enough that the user does not feel inconvenienced.
4. Can do without Mark Newton
5. More peaking colors
6. Window in window zoom in box.

In fact, I'd rather the K-0x series just go the 'stylo'/'fashionista' route that the K01 has taken and look like a ME super in styling and size, even if that means no SR.
Lunacy perhaps for the conservative crowd here, but it needs to reach beyond the typical Pentax user base.
Those who want SR and the like, go get a K30

Those who want a bit more style, this "ME-digital" with small DA/FA limited primes, will be ideal.

ChrisJowett · 08-27-2012, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I think that Pentax will compete on price and thatthis camera actually matches up well against the Sony Nex 5. Sure, it isn'tquite at the NEX 7 specs yet, but the NEX 7 is quite a bit more expensive andis just out. The higher you price your camera, the fewer people are going tolook at it. This camera is launching at 750 (like the kr did). I would besurprised if in 6 months, it wasn't selling for 600-ish dollars. A lot morepeople will look at it.

Originally posted by Rondec

As far as using the LCD to compose, I personally hate it, but most peopleare used to it. This camera is clearly targeted at consumers who are used tousing cell phones and point and shoot cameras and want to move up due to imagequality.

I don't see the point in making a mirrorless camera weather sealed. Pentax'sweather sealed lenses are large (smallest one I know of is the DA *55) andwouldn't go well with what should be a small, go anywhere package.

Weather Sealing

The main point of weather sealed is marketing. A weather sealed cameraappears sturdier and better built. The K-30 is ABS on steel just like the K-rbut it feels better built and has attracted compliments not criticisms forbuild quality. With the K-01, by comparison, Pentax went for a heavier metal onmetal construction with rubber grips and flaps, the latter receiving muchcriticism for flimsiness. In hindsight if the K-01 had been built like the K-30it would be a little lighter, have ABS doors and feel a lot more like a camerathan a toy. It could still have been available in numerous colours and Newson designed, but wouldhave more positive reviews = more sales.

EVF

I have 2 kids, one born in 2000 and the other in 2003. The elder kid used atoy camera by holding it up to her eye, but the younger kid used the same toyby holding it away from his face. It's a very short generational shift from OVFto LCD as "normal". The central issue is the market for a $700mirrorless camera that takes very large lenses. A fixed LCD in this day and ageis just plain silly. The more affluent younger buyer is less likely to have anyKAF lenses and less likely again to have any legacy lenses, so why not get anF-1, NEX or OM-D? The K-mount market has enormous potential, but Pentax need torecognize that it must be fully exploited by pandering to all the advantages including full legacy support – top-notch EVF,uncrippled KAF and especially full frame.

Full frame

The competitors like NEX, OM-D, EOS-M simply cannot ever offer fullframe and the big 2 Canon and Nikon have clearly considered and dismissed fullframe capable compacts. Canon was the last holdout, and I seriously thoughtthey may introduce an EOS compatible mirrorless. They didn’t, so Pentax retainsthat unique opportunity. The market is very clearly heading in the direction ofquality. The average sensor is getting larger, not smaller. Quality isincreasing, so smaller sensors like the Nikon 1 series and micro 4/3 willimprove generationally. I’m not so confident there will be another Q; it’s justtoo damn small and headed the way of the 110 SLR. I believe that within a fewyears 35mm sensors will dominate the semi-pro and serious amateur DSLR markets;SD cards, laptops and tablets will have exponentially larger storage capacityand we just won’t care that each photo takes up 10mb or more of ournot-so-precious disk space. Keep in mind that legacy lenses are full frame, socameras that can exploit all the features of a mechanical aperture, manualfocus, 35mm lens have a niche and an advantage over those that cannot.

ChrisJowett · 08-27-2012, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by pinholecam

1. EVF
2. Thinner sides to make it look smaller
3. Faster CDAF (circa 2012, there is no leeway for sloppy CDAF as competition from m4/3 and Sony RX100 has upped the game) ;
Maybe not as fast, but must be close enough that the user does not feel inconvenienced.
4. Can do without Mark Newton
5. More peaking colors
6. Window in window zoom in box.

In fact, I'd rather the K-0x series just go the 'stylo'/'fashionista' route that the K01 has taken and look like a ME super in styling and size, even if that means no SR.
Lunacy perhaps for the conservative crowd here, but it needs to reach beyond the typical Pentax user base.
Those who want SR and the like, go get a K30

Those who want a bit more style, this "ME-digital" with small DA/FA limited primes, will be ideal.

I would kill for a digital ME Super!
I still use AV exclusively and have only 1 out of 9 APSC lenses and only 2 out of 9 AF. My K-r now has an old-fashioned split/collar/fresnel focusing screen and I live in the past, totally.
I'd add a grip and leatherette finish to approximate the feel of shooting with the bottom half of the old fashioned snoot case on.
I used to sell cameras in the 80's and almost wet my pants when the OM-D came out. I didn't buy one because I'm not convinced the MFD format is for me and I have an awful lot of K, KA and KAF lenses.
A retro Pentax with a full KAF mount (not crippled) will have me running to the camera shop.

ChrisJowett · 09-03-2012, 03:39 AM

OK, total back-flip; just bought a K-01.
I have run into the K-r's focus problems with tungsten light and the high ISO performance is inadequate.
The viewfinder is small and dark. I have fitted a manual focus screen (split/prism) and have an O-ME53 on the way, but if the K-01 does anything well, it's manual focus in low light.
I enjoy shooting my talented kids on stage, and stage lighting is tungsten and will probably always be.
The K-30 is just too heavy for me, but I need focus peaking for my mainly manual focus KA lens library, so a K-01 it is.
I'll keep the K-r for daylight outdoors, so I may never encounter all the whining about using an LCD in harsh daylight.
Nevertheless, there are 2 simple firmware upgrades or K-02 improvements I'd like to see:
1. Choice of colour for focus peaking. Why not? I'd probably go for yellow, but I may wish to try red or blue.
2. Soft angle-of-view enhancement. WTF you say? My old Lumix TZ1 has this called "High Angle" and marketed as a way of shooting over the heads of others in a crowd, but I have used it more often by flipping the camera upside-down and using it at waist level. A simple old-fashioned way of using your body to shadow the camera from direct sunlight. If the reflection issue proves to be major I'll probably get a shade of some kind, but it hasn't been so far with the 3 three P&S we own.
3. Audio monitoring. Every cheap-as video camera has a socket for headphones, so why don't all cameras? I have no use for a speaker in a camera. They are typically rubbish and every person on earth now has a phone that came with headphones. Please equip the K-02 with a simple 3.5mm headphone socket rather than a dinky little speaker. Firmware - can't add a socket, but can add a meter. We need to know that we are recording something and how loud.
4. Remote video. Love the remote video in the Sony NEX5R. That's the new standard for the K-02, but in the meantime if firmware can enable the use of a PC via HDMI or USB that would be great. Haven't tried to use pk tethering for this, but will.

An EVF and/or an articulated screen are still my priority choices for the K-02.

Update:
I now have a Zoom H1 digital recorder with hot-shoe mount. It is so much better than any built-in audio with an external mic, and I can monitor. Even if the camera had a headphone socket I would not use it.

Last edited by ChrisJowett; 05-27-2013 at 06:37 PM. Reason: Change of situation

snake · 09-03-2012, 03:49 AM

I'd be interested to see if future models from Pentax will get that hybrid focusing system that Ricoh put on the CX6 and GRDIV. That would ease the pain of focusing if it can work with multiple lenses.

I want them to continue making cams where, at nearly any pricepoint, one gets near-K-5 performance, which is near fullframe/pro performance.

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08-27-2012, 07:30 AM	#31
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,709	1. EVF 2. Thinner sides to make it look smaller 3. Faster CDAF (circa 2012, there is no leeway for sloppy CDAF as competition from m4/3 and Sony RX100 has upped the game) ; Maybe not as fast, but must be close enough that the user does not feel inconvenienced. 4. Can do without Mark Newton 5. More peaking colors 6. Window in window zoom in box. In fact, I'd rather the K-0x series just go the 'stylo'/'fashionista' route that the K01 has taken and look like a ME super in styling and size, even if that means no SR. Lunacy perhaps for the conservative crowd here, but it needs to reach beyond the typical Pentax user base. Those who want SR and the like, go get a K30 Those who want a bit more style, this "ME-digital" with small DA/FA limited primes, will be ideal.

08-27-2012, 05:16 PM	#32
ChrisJowett Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 79	Originally posted by Rondec I think that Pentax will compete on price and thatthis camera actually matches up well against the Sony Nex 5. Sure, it isn'tquite at the NEX 7 specs yet, but the NEX 7 is quite a bit more expensive andis just out. The higher you price your camera, the fewer people are going tolook at it. This camera is launching at 750 (like the kr did). I would besurprised if in 6 months, it wasn't selling for 600-ish dollars. A lot morepeople will look at it. Originally posted by Rondec As far as using the LCD to compose, I personally hate it, but most peopleare used to it. This camera is clearly targeted at consumers who are used tousing cell phones and point and shoot cameras and want to move up due to imagequality. I don't see the point in making a mirrorless camera weather sealed. Pentax'sweather sealed lenses are large (smallest one I know of is the DA 55) andwouldn't go well with what should be a small, go anywhere package. Weather Sealing* The main point of weather sealed is marketing. A weather sealed cameraappears sturdier and better built. The K-30 is ABS on steel just like the K-rbut it feels better built and has attracted compliments not criticisms forbuild quality. With the K-01, by comparison, Pentax went for a heavier metal onmetal construction with rubber grips and flaps, the latter receiving muchcriticism for flimsiness. In hindsight if the K-01 had been built like the K-30it would be a little lighter, have ABS doors and feel a lot more like a camerathan a toy. It could still have been available in numerous colours and Newson designed, but wouldhave more positive reviews = more sales. EVF I have 2 kids, one born in 2000 and the other in 2003. The elder kid used atoy camera by holding it up to her eye, but the younger kid used the same toyby holding it away from his face. It's a very short generational shift from OVFto LCD as "normal". The central issue is the market for a $700mirrorless camera that takes very large lenses. A fixed LCD in this day and ageis just plain silly. The more affluent younger buyer is less likely to have anyKAF lenses and less likely again to have any legacy lenses, so why not get anF-1, NEX or OM-D? The K-mount market has enormous potential, but Pentax need torecognize that it must be fully exploited by pandering to all the advantages including full legacy support – top-notch EVF,uncrippled KAF and especially full frame. Full frame The competitors like NEX, OM-D, EOS-M simply cannot ever offer fullframe and the big 2 Canon and Nikon have clearly considered and dismissed fullframe capable compacts. Canon was the last holdout, and I seriously thoughtthey may introduce an EOS compatible mirrorless. They didn’t, so Pentax retainsthat unique opportunity. The market is very clearly heading in the direction ofquality. The average sensor is getting larger, not smaller. Quality isincreasing, so smaller sensors like the Nikon 1 series and micro 4/3 willimprove generationally. I’m not so confident there will be another Q; it’s justtoo damn small and headed the way of the 110 SLR. I believe that within a fewyears 35mm sensors will dominate the semi-pro and serious amateur DSLR markets;SD cards, laptops and tablets will have exponentially larger storage capacityand we just won’t care that each photo takes up 10mb or more of ournot-so-precious disk space. Keep in mind that legacy lenses are full frame, socameras that can exploit all the features of a mechanical aperture, manualfocus, 35mm lens have a niche and an advantage over those that cannot.

08-27-2012, 05:30 PM	#33
ChrisJowett Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 79	Originally posted by pinholecam 1. EVF 2. Thinner sides to make it look smaller 3. Faster CDAF (circa 2012, there is no leeway for sloppy CDAF as competition from m4/3 and Sony RX100 has upped the game) ; Maybe not as fast, but must be close enough that the user does not feel inconvenienced. 4. Can do without Mark Newton 5. More peaking colors 6. Window in window zoom in box. In fact, I'd rather the K-0x series just go the 'stylo'/'fashionista' route that the K01 has taken and look like a ME super in styling and size, even if that means no SR. Lunacy perhaps for the conservative crowd here, but it needs to reach beyond the typical Pentax user base. Those who want SR and the like, go get a K30 Those who want a bit more style, this "ME-digital" with small DA/FA limited primes, will be ideal. I would kill for a digital ME Super! I still use AV exclusively and have only 1 out of 9 APSC lenses and only 2 out of 9 AF. My K-r now has an old-fashioned split/collar/fresnel focusing screen and I live in the past, totally. I'd add a grip and leatherette finish to approximate the feel of shooting with the bottom half of the old fashioned snoot case on. I used to sell cameras in the 80's and almost wet my pants when the OM-D came out. I didn't buy one because I'm not convinced the MFD format is for me and I have an awful lot of K, KA and KAF lenses. A retro Pentax with a full KAF mount (not crippled) will have me running to the camera shop.

09-03-2012, 03:39 AM	#34
ChrisJowett Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 79	OK, total back-flip; just bought a K-01. I have run into the K-r's focus problems with tungsten light and the high ISO performance is inadequate. The viewfinder is small and dark. I have fitted a manual focus screen (split/prism) and have an O-ME53 on the way, but if the K-01 does anything well, it's manual focus in low light. I enjoy shooting my talented kids on stage, and stage lighting is tungsten and will probably always be. The K-30 is just too heavy for me, but I need focus peaking for my mainly manual focus KA lens library, so a K-01 it is. I'll keep the K-r for daylight outdoors, so I may never encounter all the whining about using an LCD in harsh daylight. Nevertheless, there are 2 simple firmware upgrades or K-02 improvements I'd like to see: 1. Choice of colour for focus peaking. Why not? I'd probably go for yellow, but I may wish to try red or blue. 2. Soft angle-of-view enhancement. WTF you say? My old Lumix TZ1 has this called "High Angle" and marketed as a way of shooting over the heads of others in a crowd, but I have used it more often by flipping the camera upside-down and using it at waist level. A simple old-fashioned way of using your body to shadow the camera from direct sunlight. If the reflection issue proves to be major I'll probably get a shade of some kind, but it hasn't been so far with the 3 three P&S we own. 3. Audio monitoring. Every cheap-as video camera has a socket for headphones, so why don't all cameras? I have no use for a speaker in a camera. They are typically rubbish and every person on earth now has a phone that came with headphones. Please equip the K-02 with a simple 3.5mm headphone socket rather than a dinky little speaker. Firmware - can't add a socket, but can add a meter. We need to know that we are recording something and how loud. 4. Remote video. Love the remote video in the Sony NEX5R. That's the new standard for the K-02, but in the meantime if firmware can enable the use of a PC via HDMI or USB that would be great. Haven't tried to use pk tethering for this, but will. An EVF and/or an articulated screen are still my priority choices for the K-02. Update: I now have a Zoom H1 digital recorder with hot-shoe mount. It is so much better than any built-in audio with an external mic, and I can monitor. Even if the camera had a headphone socket I would not use it. Last edited by ChrisJowett; 05-27-2013 at 06:37 PM. Reason: Change of situation

09-03-2012, 03:49 AM	#35
snake Banned Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: NY/Germany Posts: 1,183	I'd be interested to see if future models from Pentax will get that hybrid focusing system that Ricoh put on the CX6 and GRDIV. That would ease the pain of focusing if it can work with multiple lenses. I want them to continue making cams where, at nearly any pricepoint, one gets near-K-5 performance, which is near fullframe/pro performance.