[SteveM]

This is an interesting thread. If I understand it correctly, the larger US retailers have undercut the market so much that it has impacted international sales. They are able to sell large quantities of Pentax items to international customers near cost, but make it work through volume. By choking off that supply, the hope is that the Pentax brand will be more competitive across more retailers, which in turn exposes Pentax cameras to a larger potential customer base through brick and mortar stores (?)

[eddie1960]

This is an interesting thread. If I understand it correctly, the larger US retailers have undercut the market so much that it has impacted international sales. They are able to sell large quantities of Pentax items to international customers near cost, but make it work through volume. By choking off that supply, the hope is that the Pentax brand will be more competitive across more retailers, which in turn exposes Pentax cameras to a larger potential customer base through brick and mortar stores (?)

that's actually a pretty good summary. While not all markets will have good B&M stores (sorry Blue and Doc) a lot of markets do have good stores but no Pentax dealers. And there has been very little representation even in the big box warehouse arena (though many listed product online they didn't carry in store and weren't competitive on price usually either)

Getting the price issue under control helps address those issues.

Nikon has done it in Canada. I just got a big Nikon flyer this AM from Vistek that has a number of Instant rebates to drive sales for the summer vacation June wedding markets. that is the type of thing i expect we will see from Pentax later this year (until the new camera lines arrive it would be hard to get a proper flyer done by any retailer)

[henryp]

I think that will change a bit over time. I will point out though that the main reason Pentax was so much cheaper was lack of pricing control from pentax. sort of a free for all. Nikon has always had some form of control MAP previously, but now i think it's more like Pentax just instituted.

Nikon USA had instituted "unilateral pricing" before Pentax USA did. Nikon USA also prohibits authorized USA retailers from shipping some products (dslr cameras notably) to any address outside the USA.

Of course Nikon USA also refuses to do non-warranty work on any item which they determine was "grey market" when originally sold which has a deleterious effect on the used market. They also recently instituted a policy they will not provide supplies to non-authorized US service and repair shops.

Online has a huge cost advantage over small dealers (lower cost due to higher volumes, less overhead and staffing cost and so will sell at margins that others cannot compete on.

This may be true for some online retailers but for others, like B&H, we bear the overhead of a retail brick-n-mortar store and a well-paid, highly-trained professional sales staff (in-store and for phone orders) in addition to our online operation, yet survived (until the unilateral price policy) with exceptional prices.

This is an interesting thread. If I understand it correctly, the larger US retailers have undercut the market so much that it has impacted international sales. They are able to sell large quantities of Pentax items to international customers near cost, but make it work through volume. By choking off that supply, the hope is that the Pentax brand will be more competitive across more retailers, which in turn exposes Pentax cameras to a larger potential customer base through brick and mortar stores (?)

Or, potential Pentax customers will see Pentax prices close enough to Nikon or Canon that Pentax loses the lower-price advantage, sending more customers away from Pentax and towards Nikon and Canon, further limiting the brand's appeal and market share.

I just got a big Nikon flyer this AM from Vistek that has a number of Instant rebates to drive sales for the summer vacation June wedding markets. that is the type of thing i expect we will see from Pentax later this year (until the new camera lines arrive it would be hard to get a proper flyer done by any retailer)

I don't know how Vistek or Nikon/Canada do things but down here flyers like that are supplied by Nikon USA (or whoever) and all they do is tip in the particular retailer's logo, address, etc.

[gofour3]

This is an interesting thread. If I understand it correctly, the larger US retailers have undercut the market so much that it has impacted international sales. They are able to sell large quantities of Pentax items to international customers near cost, but make it work through volume. By choking off that supply, the hope is that the Pentax brand will be more competitive across more retailers, which in turn exposes Pentax cameras to a larger potential customer base through brick and mortar stores (?)

I guess we are spoilt here in Canada with Pentax dealers. There are four B&M stores close to where I live that sell Pentax, as well as London Drugs. (London Drugs even carries the 645D in the main stores)

Phil.

[eddie1960]

Henry, your store is the exception to the rule on having good staff. I've been in there way in the past (haven't been to NYC in ages) You were also pretty well established in the catalogue market. I imagine despite any companies UPP you will still survive

Nikon's Policy on parts for repair is really dumb (I'd seen that announced). While there are less and less places to take gear for repairs, when a product is out of warranty it's nice to have an option to go to a local guy
I completely understand their position on grey market. It's been the norm up here as well for many brands to refuse grey market service - I guess the parts supply thing may be part of trying to shut down grey product entirely

I didn't realise Nikon forbid you shipping bodies outside the US, I'm certain this is an effort to protect dealers in other markets (some of which are small compared even to NYC never mind the US) to ensure they have continued good retail presence in every country. If I was buying a new Body I would still by local in any case (Pentax Canada will service under the 1 year international warranty but they charge a $50 fee - add in that If I buy local I get 2 years and it's really a no brainer)

[kenafein]

Nikon USA had instituted "unilateral pricing" before Pentax USA did. Nikon USA also prohibits authorized USA retailers from shipping some products (dslr cameras notably) to any address outside the USA.

Of course Nikon USA also refuses to do non-warranty work on any item which they determine was "grey market" when originally sold which has a deleterious effect on the used market. They also recently instituted a policy they will not provide supplies to non-authorized US service and repair shops.

This may be true for some online retailers but for others, like B&H, we bear the overhead of a retail brick-n-mortar store and a well-paid, highly-trained professional sales staff (in-store and for phone orders) in addition to our online operation, yet survived (until the unilateral price policy) with exceptional prices.



Or, potential Pentax customers will see Pentax prices close enough to Nikon or Canon that Pentax loses the lower-price advantage, sending more customers away from Pentax and towards Nikon and Canon, further limiting the brand's appeal and market share.



I don't know how Vistek or Nikon/Canada do things but down here flyers like that are supplied by Nikon USA (or whoever) and all they do is tip in the particular retailer's logo, address, etc.

Thanks for taking the time to post Henry. It's interesting to hear your perspective on both Nikon and Pentax. You echo the concerns many of us have. We want Pentax to remain a player, and we hope they're not making a colossal blunder.

[SteveM]

Or, potential Pentax customers will see Pentax prices close enough to Nikon or Canon that Pentax loses the lower-price advantage, sending more customers away from Pentax and towards Nikon and Canon, further limiting the brand's appeal and market share.

Good point..I hope that isn't the case and I do appreciate the work your company has done in making these items available.

[humbr]

Nikon has done it in Canada. I just got a big Nikon flyer this AM from Vistek that has a number of Instant rebates to drive sales for the summer vacation June wedding markets. that is the type of thing i expect we will see from Pentax later this year (until the new camera lines arrive it would be hard to get a proper flyer done by any retailer)

Futureshop in Toronto just popped out a flyer with lots of Canikon, Sony and Olympus P&S and DSLR's. Nothing from Pentax. As you said, in Canada we still have B&M's and I include Costco, FutureShop and Best Buy in that list as well as others such as Japan Camera. Blacks, London Drugs etc. And thankfully we have Henrys who I find competitive in Pentax but for Sigma I buy from B&H :-)

I try to keep in mind while reading all the doom and gloom on pricing that a) the pricing focus seems to be some higher end lenses, not the whoe line, b) the Pentax line is much broader than DA* lenses and top end DSLR's. They have lots of P&S models, WG2, binoculars etc.

I look forward to seeing more shelf space for anything Pentax in the stores that I visit, assuming of course that they step up visibility here as well..

Gerrit

[Ex Finn.]

The high cost in europe used to be, still is, due to import duties and sales taxes that support the socialized medicine and free schooling etc.
Here in US we do not have tariffs or benefits like that, therefore by making the cost of gear match overseas, Pentax has tapped into a huge profit margin potential.
Has nothing to do with B&M support, it is all nothing but smoke up our collective butt. The saying '"rake me over the goals" comes to mind.

[kenafein]

The high cost in europe used to be, still is, due to import duties and sales taxes that support the socialized medicine and free schooling etc.
Here in US we do not have tariffs or benefits like that.
By making the cost of gear match overseas, Pentax has tapped into a huge profit margin potential.
Has nothing to do with B&M support, it is all nothing but smoke up our collective butt. The saying '"rake me over the goals" comes to mind.

I've said the same, but they don't seem to get how backwards it is here

[Ex Finn.]

Yup, they all think that it is all "cookies and cream" over here.

[humbr]

I think that the education system in US is certainly is affected, judging by the lack of understanding and fact checking :-)

Using DutyCalculator.com, it seems that while Netherlands charges a total of 6.7% duty/6% VAT on lenses from Japan, and Canada charges 0% duty/13%HST, US does in fact charge 2.3% duty. Add in the various state, county and city taxes and the tax/duty burden is not so different from the 'socialist labelled' countries as you like to label them.

NY State, 4% state + 3-4.75% county tax,
CA State. 7.25% State + 2% local
Maryland, 6% state
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_States)
No taxes in US is a myth, you just spin it differently. Phrases such as Board of Equalization, and Transaction Privilege Tax come to mind.

I am tempted to comment on the socialized medicine dig but your system and its costs to individuals speak volumes for themselves :-( Ok, that is a comment, sorry.

Gerrit

[Ex Finn.]

To clarify, We in U.S. get nothing in return for increase in the cost of equipment. The more I read into Ricoh overtake, the more it looks like Pentax is done. Too bad.

[Ex Finn.]

NY State, 4% state + 3-4.75% county tax,
CA State. 7.25% State + 2% local
Maryland, 6% state

Those are our socialist states. And I live in one of them. The one with lowest tax.

[Ex Finn.]

I think that the education system in US is certainly is affected, judging by the lack of understanding and fact checking :-)

Absolutely correct. And fully agreed on.
Carry on Sir.