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07-31-2012, 11:36 AM   #31
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So sorry you didn't get hired. It's no consolation, in fact I'm probably adding insult to injury, but I think they would have overlooked the FF thing if your portfolio was exactly what they were looking for.

07-31-2012, 11:49 AM   #32
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Actually it seems like if they were going to require anything for architectural photography it would be a tilt-shift lens... in which case you'd still be screwed because you shoot Pentax.
07-31-2012, 08:07 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pablom Quote
can you explain that logic?
I am referring to the fact that if you keep a subject the same size using a shorter focal length then the background will appear smaller and much more distant. Nothing more than technical differences.
08-01-2012, 01:41 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Louicio Quote
I am referring to the fact that if you keep a subject the same size using a shorter focal length then the background will appear smaller and much more distant.
that's exactly why a APS-C is better for interior / estate pictures : rooms will look bigger on the picture than in reality, it will make potential buyer want to see in real, and that's the first step to brings people to buy something.

And so far, i think that there is no more a real gap between APS-C lenses and FF lenses in quality.

the DA 15 is a perfect exemple : it as very few distortion, as much as the Canon 24/1,4, less than most of 20mm (Nikon, Voigt and Zeiss).
On the other area, it's as good as the other.

So i don't really see the point of FF is better than APS-C in this domain. And i don't speak about the DOF ...

08-01-2012, 05:01 AM   #35
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We've been down this road several times before about equipment required for being hired. Complaining doesn't work. Some companies have equipment that they loan to photogs and that is the reason. Others have a prejudice. Doesn't matter, they have the job. If you want the job you may need to invest in the equipment they require, it's just that simple because it's a buyers market.
08-01-2012, 05:49 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
as my grand Pa' often says : "back in the days, no one matter about the camera as long as the job's done, and you get paid".
Yeah but back in the days almost everybody had a full frame camera

Last edited by NickLarsson; 08-01-2012 at 05:55 AM.
08-01-2012, 05:52 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by NickLarsson Quote
Yeah but back in the days almost all cameras were full frame
And the economy wasn't this bad and there weren't 100 applicants for each position.
08-01-2012, 06:31 AM - 1 Like   #38
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Sorry you didn't get the chance but I would demand the same thing in both my brand, and the type of body if I was hiring a second shooter. There are a number of reasons.

1) The second shooter can use my lenses and flash systems on their body as needed or as replacements. If their body fails, they could use my spare with their lenses. Pentax flash systems are nowhere near what they need to be for paid work.

2) Files in editing will look similar in RAW and use my presets to be edited. There are huge differences between brands and how the files appear. Skin tones, colours and a host of other things. Sticking to the same brand as the primary shooter saves tons of issues in editing. This is a bigger deal than most would realize.

3) Lens availability, reliability. SDM sucks period, end of sentence. Pentax also does not offer T/S lenses or any of the commonly used longer primes. IE, 105mm, 135mm or 200mm f2.0. The DA*16-50mm is a piece of junk and should be replaced (I know, I've owned 3). It's a key lens and doesn't come close to a Nikon 24-70mm or a Canon 24-70mm. Same thing for the 50-135mm compared to the Canikon 70-200mm's. Plus lots of lenses available to rent when needed and lots of 3rd party options only available to Canikon. FF DOF is better and that makes a big difference in portrait shooting situations. Combine a 135mm f2 with a FF body and you can produce shots an APS-c body can not touch.

4) Noise. Cameras like the D3s, D4, D700, 5DMKIII etc are still far cleaner than APS-c. Sure APS-c has come a long way but it's not there and this could easily be the single biggest reason.

5) Generally better built gear. I can say without hesitation that my D700 is really built like a tank and makes most APS-c cameras feel like a toy. I switched after 3 body failures of K20's, looked at K-7's (similar to the K-5) and the difference in build is stark. For serious paid work, I would want my shooter to have a camera that can take the punishment. Sorry but even though the WS of a Pentax is top notch, the build is not.

6) Using this requirement as a 'filter' between wanna-be shooters and more serious ones. I don't agree that it is right but it happens. There are plenty of APS-c shooters that can take better photos. Composition and shooting skill has very little to do with brand or gear.

08-01-2012, 08:32 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
1) The second shooter can use my lenses and flash systems on their body as needed or as replacements. If their body fails, they could use my spare with their lenses. Pentax flash systems are nowhere near what they need to be for paid work.

2) Files in editing will look similar in RAW and use my presets to be edited. There are huge differences between brands and how the files appear. Skin tones, colours and a host of other things. Sticking to the same brand as the primary shooter saves tons of issues in editing. This is a bigger deal than most would realize.

3) Lens availability, reliability. SDM sucks period, end of sentence. Pentax also does not offer T/S lenses or any of the commonly used longer primes. IE, 105mm, 135mm or 200mm f2.0. The DA*16-50mm is a piece of junk and should be replaced (I know, I've owned 3). It's a key lens and doesn't come close to a Nikon 24-70mm or a Canon 24-70mm. Same thing for the 50-135mm compared to the Canikon 70-200mm's. Plus lots of lenses available to rent when needed and lots of 3rd party options only available to Canikon. FF DOF is better and that makes a big difference in portrait shooting situations. Combine a 135mm f2 with a FF body and you can produce shots an APS-c body can not touch.
it wasn't about brand, it was just about FF.

I get those valid points, but if they had asked "what brand is your gear" it would be ok and understandable, but here it seems to be only "is your body FF ?"

QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
4) Noise. Cameras like the D3s, D4, D700, 5DMKIII etc are still far cleaner than APS-c. Sure APS-c has come a long way but it's not there and this could easily be the single biggest reason.
for "interior" shooting + the UWA they asked for i bet it was for real estate photography, where you use tripod (at least to do HDR when required).
So for me the low noise question isn't one : all DSLR have clean 100 or 200 iso nowadays, FF or not.

QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
5) Generally better built gear. I can say without hesitation that my D700 is really built like a tank and makes most APS-c cameras feel like a toy. I switched after 3 body failures of K20's, looked at K-7's (similar to the K-5) and the difference in build is stark. For serious paid work, I would want my shooter to have a camera that can take the punishment. Sorry but even though the WS of a Pentax is top notch, the build is not.
i don't think it's very important here, for this peculiar experience. Moreover i can't tell, i've never touch any of those except 5D2 which wasn't impressive about building.

QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
6) Using this requirement as a 'filter' between wanna-be shooters and more serious ones. I don't agree that it is right but it happens. There are plenty of APS-c shooters that can take better photos. Composition and shooting skill has very little to do with brand or gear.
To pretend to a job with APS-C DSLR where the employer ask for FF are those who are already in the photo business and know that their portfolio will reflect their value.

As you said it's a filter, but probably just to discourage the "not serious" pretender.
08-01-2012, 08:43 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
it wasn't about brand, it was just about FF.

I get those valid points, but if they had asked "what brand is your gear" it would be ok and understandable, but here it seems to be only "is your body FF ?"



for "interior" shooting + the UWA they asked for i bet it was for real estate photography, where you use tripod (at least to do HDR when required).
So for me the low noise question isn't one : all DSLR have clean 100 or 200 iso nowadays, FF or not.



i don't think it's very important here, for this peculiar experience. Moreover i can't tell, i've never touch any of those except 5D2 which wasn't impressive about building.



To pretend to a job with APS-C DSLR where the employer ask for FF are those who are already in the photo business and know that their portfolio will reflect their value.

As you said it's a filter, but probably just to discourage the "not serious" pretender.
It's not always about being the best photographer - sorry. Sometimes its about fitting in, doing what you are told, and getting the shot to the company in the format they want. I hire staff and the ones that want to tell me what it is that I really want in a staff person are the absolute last I will ever hire. As I said before, it's a buyers market and if you want a Pro job in photography these days (unless you want to work for yourself) you will probably get hit with these kind of requirements. If I were looking for work as a photog I'd buy a FF Canikon camera and go from there.
08-01-2012, 09:04 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
Sorry you didn't get the chance but I would demand the same thing in both my brand, and the type of body if I was hiring a second shooter. There are a number of reasons.

1) The second shooter can use my lenses and flash systems on their body as needed or as replacements. If their body fails, they could use my spare with their lenses. Pentax flash systems are nowhere near what they need to be for paid work.

2) Files in editing will look similar in RAW and use my presets to be edited. There are huge differences between brands and how the files appear. Skin tones, colours and a host of other things. Sticking to the same brand as the primary shooter saves tons of issues in editing. This is a bigger deal than most would realize.

3) Lens availability, reliability. SDM sucks period, end of sentence. Pentax also does not offer T/S lenses or any of the commonly used longer primes. IE, 105mm, 135mm or 200mm f2.0. The DA*16-50mm is a piece of junk and should be replaced (I know, I've owned 3). It's a key lens and doesn't come close to a Nikon 24-70mm or a Canon 24-70mm. Same thing for the 50-135mm compared to the Canikon 70-200mm's. Plus lots of lenses available to rent when needed and lots of 3rd party options only available to Canikon. FF DOF is better and that makes a big difference in portrait shooting situations. Combine a 135mm f2 with a FF body and you can produce shots an APS-c body can not touch.

4) Noise. Cameras like the D3s, D4, D700, 5DMKIII etc are still far cleaner than APS-c. Sure APS-c has come a long way but it's not there and this could easily be the single biggest reason.

5) Generally better built gear. I can say without hesitation that my D700 is really built like a tank and makes most APS-c cameras feel like a toy. I switched after 3 body failures of K20's, looked at K-7's (similar to the K-5) and the difference in build is stark. For serious paid work, I would want my shooter to have a camera that can take the punishment. Sorry but even though the WS of a Pentax is top notch, the build is not.

6) Using this requirement as a 'filter' between wanna-be shooters and more serious ones. I don't agree that it is right but it happens. There are plenty of APS-c shooters that can take better photos. Composition and shooting skill has very little to do with brand or gear.
The quality of the output from my cameras has never been a problem, for me or anyone I've shot for. If you recognize the strengths and weaknesses of your equipment, you can work around the weaknesses and exploit the strengths to deliver quality images.

This is probably an issue of the brand and its (perceived and real) weaknesses. Let's hope Ricoh Pentax can quickly progress toward being a serious competitor, especially as we approach Photokina. If anything, the K-30 looks promising...

--DragonLord

Last edited by bwDraco; 08-01-2012 at 09:28 AM.
08-01-2012, 09:31 AM   #42
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well, I know my k-5 is very good. I do not question it. it might be not good for sports, indoor low light event where auto focus is more crucial.
Actually the interviwer replied me yesterday said she might give me a chance to introduce to head photographer see how it works.
but no further reponse so far after I replied ok.....maybe she change mind again??.......will see......
By the way this is the thrid time she ask me what camera I use and what format it is........This person really got conscious about camera.....

what is the current trend of photogrepher? I think most photogrepher work as freelance. which means they work independently and need have own gears. unless you work for a crew of photographers, maybe doing some kind of project together, I do not think you have chance to borrow gear with others. so I think which brand a freelance photographer use really does not matter. but again many people does not think this way. They like canon and nikon.

about type of camera and lens. I think every kind of camera is designed to do different jobs.
if your pic only being used on web, are you going to bring 36mp nikon d800? probably you would just bring an APS-C camera.
or if you photo is being used for huge print, then it should require medium format camera.
I know what my gear is suit for. I am not going to apply job that my camera is not capable of.
That said this job I apply is for web only. They not goona print my photos.
and it is an entry level job.

Anway..will see how things goes on...

By the way. k-5 is not a very low end camera. I have see many professional use camera and lens worse than mine.

Last edited by liukaitc; 08-01-2012 at 09:40 AM.
08-01-2012, 09:34 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Louicio Quote
I am referring to the fact that if you keep a subject the same size using a shorter focal length then the background will appear smaller and much more distant. Nothing more than technical differences.
You've got this all wrong, because the crop sensor changes the effective FOV.

So the perspective distortion between a shorter lens on APS-C will look exactly like the longer lens on FF, when the FOV is the same. So the OP is at no disadvantage whatsoever.
08-01-2012, 01:15 PM   #44
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Their loss. Hopefully you can find someone to work for that is not so narrow minded. Maybe throw a grip on there next time, to make the camera look bigger?

I wonder how they would have responded if you responded "well I actually shoot with Canon too." You can pick up Canon 20Ds on ebay for 150 bucks and they are fine for web photos. I shot with one for years.

Last edited by sb in ak; 08-01-2012 at 01:28 PM.
08-01-2012, 01:56 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
It's not always about being the best photographer - sorry. Sometimes its about fitting in, doing what you are told, and getting the shot to the company in the format they want. I hire staff and the ones that want to tell me what it is that I really want in a staff person are the absolute last I will ever hire.
You don't get me, and i didn't express my self the best way possible.

It's about hiring seomone that will be the best for a task, and that will fit best for any of your request to get what you consider to be the best final result you wish for.

Of course you won't get Karl Lagarsfeld for sport photography (albeit the result could be fun), nor get David Burnett for some product shots of cupcakes.

They might be the best among the best in fashion and phoography, they probably won't fit to your expectations.

QuoteOriginally posted by liukaitc Quote
or if you photo is being used for huge print, then it should require medium format camera.
In fact, maybe not ! i stopped by a huge ad on a highway once. maybe 15m x 20m. The "pixel" of the picture were big. In fact it was the size of a big fist, so around 10cm each. Printed with CMYK gammut.
The biggest 1500x2000 pixel print i've ever seen
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