The Real Issue.

Docrwm · 09-20-2012, 07:42 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Seamripper

I agree! This site sells more Pentax equipment than Pentax's marketing has ever sold as far as I can tell. It's also the best free 'customer service' information source a company could ever wish for. Do a google search about almost anything photography related. It doesn't even have to be directly involving Pentax, and many, if not most times this site is referenced near the top. Years ago, when I bought my first Pentax K100ds, it was this site that opened the door. I would have probably just bought a Canikon because... when buying a DSLR, that's just what you do. I stumbled across this site right away and it opened the door to another option. I've now owned at least 6 Pentax bodies and many lenses as well as Flashes, etc. I would never have even considered Pentax had it not been for information from this site. Thanks!

With that said, these latest announcements, etc have changed my outlook. That, and my photography career is moving forward fast. Because of this, I just bought a new Nikon system. Sorry Pentax. You will be demoted to backup for me. After a few days with my Nikon, I couldn't be happier and will not be returning it. I'm now moving forward fast and need equipment that will keep up. However, I will still keep one of my Pentax bodies... for now.

Posts like yours are among the saddest that I read here. A loyal user of the brand, an enthusiastic one even, leaves because the equipment just can't cut it.

I was considering the K-30 because the AF is supposed to be faster, which it is based on my limited playing around with one. The problem is, when I stopped to think about it more, that it's really not the speed that is the biggest problem for me - it's the accuracy. I don't see the K-30 as having improved that aspect of the camera. I have a K-5 and there are huge pluses to it, but neither AF speed nor accuracy are among them. My son is moving up in his soccer abilities nearly every day, it's amazing to watch and a real source of pleasure for me - until I try to capture him with my K-5. Why have I even considered a D7000? Because I want to actually ENJOY taking photographs of my son at his favorite activity. At this point I am so invested in Pentax that it would cost me a LOT to switch. I keep hoping that Pentax will take an amazing camera and make it a great camera. I await the user reviews of the Mk II but have less hope each day that in a year I will still be a Pentaxian.

eurostar · 09-20-2012, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by troenaas

It's not about full frame or not, its not about resolution or print size. It's about survival of the brand.

Nobody wants to ride a lame horse or be part of a loosing team. We all want to be part of a winning team - the best.

What is the probable course for Ricoh Pentax in the next 5 years? Will Ricoh Pentax become an even smaller brand or not? Does Ricoh Pentax have the strategy, stamina and "force" to turn the tide?

Unfortuneately, I don't feel that these questions have been answered at Photokina. That's a concern.

If pentaxians starts to turn their back on the brand, a trickle can become a flood. I rather be part of the trickle than the flood. It's all about timing.

For me that is the real issues.

If you want to be on the wiining team, don't change brand, just change camera. Buy a 645D and instantly you'll see yourself above all those puny fullframers, and you will start to see how Canon and Nikon are doomed: they have not any medium format camera in their lineup.

Docrwm · 09-20-2012, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by eurostar

If you want to be on the wiining team, don't change brand, just change camera. Buy a 645D and instantly you'll see yourself above all those puny fullframers, and you will start to see how Canon and Nikon are doomed: they have not any medium format camera in their lineup.

Touche'!

Allison · 09-20-2012, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by eurostar

If you want to be on the wiining team, don't change brand, just change camera. Buy a 645D and instantly you'll see yourself above all those puny fullframers, and you will start to see how Canon and Nikon are doomed: they have not any medium format camera in their lineup.

MF doesn't have the kind of speed that some of us need for the type of photography that we are doing. MF is great if you are doing portraits and landscapes, but not so good at sports, weddings, and action. Plus, I am not shooting billboards...but I am shooting things (weddings) that are often printed at 20x30 and sometimes even larger. There are some of us on this forum that are pushing the boundaries of what a 16mp aps-c can do. Some of those same boundaries are why I was never tempted by the D700...but the D800 gives me a lot of room to grow.

**Pål Jensen** · 09-20-2012, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Docrwm

Posts like yours are among the saddest that I read here. A loyal user of the brand, an enthusiastic one even, leaves because the equipment just can't cut it. amazing camera and make it a great camera. I await the user reviews of the Mk II but have less hope each day that in a year I will still be a Pentaxian.

But there are plenty newcomers to Pentax every day. Plenty of them come from FF if this very forum is to be believed...

eurostar · 09-21-2012, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by Allison

MF doesn't have the kind of speed that some of us need for the type of photography that we are doing. MF is great if you are doing portraits and landscapes, but not so good at sports, weddings, and action. Plus, I am not shooting billboards...but I am shooting things (weddings) that are often printed at 20x30 and sometimes even larger. There are some of us on this forum that are pushing the boundaries of what a 16mp aps-c can do. Some of those same boundaries are why I was never tempted by the D700...but the D800 gives me a lot of room to grow.

Ehm... it was just a joke. Yet, if it is for enlargements, 24 MP on APS-C enlarge exactly as 24MP on fullframe. There can be some advantage, but wanting a full frame doesn't need actual reasons. On the other side, just like Canopn and Nikon don't bother to create a medium format camera, or Mamiya-Leaf to produce APS-C and FF ones, Pentax could be in the same mindset.

Allison · 09-21-2012, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by eurostar

Ehm... it was just a joke. Yet, if it is for enlargements, 24 MP on APS-C enlarge exactly as 24MP on fullframe. There can be some advantage, but wanting a full frame doesn't need actual reasons. On the other side, just like Canopn and Nikon don't bother to create a medium format camera, or Mamiya-Leaf to produce APS-C and FF ones, Pentax could be in the same mindset.

Yeah, I know it was a joke, I was just in a bad mood yesterday from getting blasted for being a little skeptical of Pentax's future. 24mp is 24mp, but there is a difference with 24mp aps-c and FF enlargements when you are talking about low light shots. Most of my second shooters have FF and those images require less PP to reduce noise to make the enlargement. Crop has gotten much better with noise and so have PP tools (I am using mostly Lightroom 4 and Photoshop CS6 premium) in removing it, but those low light FF images can just be pushed a little more. I totally know that most people don't need this capacity, but unfortunately, we keep having dancing at wedding receptions in complete darkness except for the horrible DJ lights!

I really do wish that MF would have been the answer for me...but my bank account is happy that it wasn't.

09-21-2012, 01:02 AM	#21
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	Originally posted by Allison MF doesn't have the kind of speed that some of us need for the type of photography that we are doing. MF is great if you are doing portraits and landscapes, but not so good at sports, weddings, and action. Plus, I am not shooting billboards...but I am shooting things (weddings) that are often printed at 20x30 and sometimes even larger. There are some of us on this forum that are pushing the boundaries of what a 16mp aps-c can do. Some of those same boundaries are why I was never tempted by the D700...but the D800 gives me a lot of room to grow. Ehm... it was just a joke. Yet, if it is for enlargements, 24 MP on APS-C enlarge exactly as 24MP on fullframe. There can be some advantage, but wanting a full frame doesn't need actual reasons. On the other side, just like Canopn and Nikon don't bother to create a medium format camera, or Mamiya-Leaf to produce APS-C and FF ones, Pentax could be in the same mindset. Last edited by eurostar; 09-21-2012 at 01:16 AM.

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09-20-2012, 07:42 AM - 1 Like	#16
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by Seamripper I agree! This site sells more Pentax equipment than Pentax's marketing has ever sold as far as I can tell. It's also the best free 'customer service' information source a company could ever wish for. Do a google search about almost anything photography related. It doesn't even have to be directly involving Pentax, and many, if not most times this site is referenced near the top. Years ago, when I bought my first Pentax K100ds, it was this site that opened the door. I would have probably just bought a Canikon because... when buying a DSLR, that's just what you do. I stumbled across this site right away and it opened the door to another option. I've now owned at least 6 Pentax bodies and many lenses as well as Flashes, etc. I would never have even considered Pentax had it not been for information from this site. Thanks! With that said, these latest announcements, etc have changed my outlook. That, and my photography career is moving forward fast. Because of this, I just bought a new Nikon system. Sorry Pentax. You will be demoted to backup for me. After a few days with my Nikon, I couldn't be happier and will not be returning it. I'm now moving forward fast and need equipment that will keep up. However, I will still keep one of my Pentax bodies... for now. Posts like yours are among the saddest that I read here. A loyal user of the brand, an enthusiastic one even, leaves because the equipment just can't cut it. I was considering the K-30 because the AF is supposed to be faster, which it is based on my limited playing around with one. The problem is, when I stopped to think about it more, that it's really not the speed that is the biggest problem for me - it's the accuracy. I don't see the K-30 as having improved that aspect of the camera. I have a K-5 and there are huge pluses to it, but neither AF speed nor accuracy are among them. My son is moving up in his soccer abilities nearly every day, it's amazing to watch and a real source of pleasure for me - until I try to capture him with my K-5. Why have I even considered a D7000? Because I want to actually ENJOY taking photographs of my son at his favorite activity. At this point I am so invested in Pentax that it would cost me a LOT to switch. I keep hoping that Pentax will take an amazing camera and make it a great camera. I await the user reviews of the Mk II but have less hope each day that in a year I will still be a Pentaxian.

09-20-2012, 09:54 AM	#17
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	Originally posted by troenaas It's not about full frame or not, its not about resolution or print size. It's about survival of the brand. Nobody wants to ride a lame horse or be part of a loosing team. We all want to be part of a winning team - the best. What is the probable course for Ricoh Pentax in the next 5 years? Will Ricoh Pentax become an even smaller brand or not? Does Ricoh Pentax have the strategy, stamina and "force" to turn the tide? Unfortuneately, I don't feel that these questions have been answered at Photokina. That's a concern. If pentaxians starts to turn their back on the brand, a trickle can become a flood. I rather be part of the trickle than the flood. It's all about timing. For me that is the real issues. If you want to be on the wiining team, don't change brand, just change camera. Buy a 645D and instantly you'll see yourself above all those puny fullframers, and you will start to see how Canon and Nikon are doomed: they have not any medium format camera in their lineup.

09-20-2012, 09:55 AM	#18
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by eurostar If you want to be on the wiining team, don't change brand, just change camera. Buy a 645D and instantly you'll see yourself above all those puny fullframers, and you will start to see how Canon and Nikon are doomed: they have not any medium format camera in their lineup. Touche'!

09-20-2012, 10:48 AM	#19
Allison Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 667	Originally posted by eurostar If you want to be on the wiining team, don't change brand, just change camera. Buy a 645D and instantly you'll see yourself above all those puny fullframers, and you will start to see how Canon and Nikon are doomed: they have not any medium format camera in their lineup. MF doesn't have the kind of speed that some of us need for the type of photography that we are doing. MF is great if you are doing portraits and landscapes, but not so good at sports, weddings, and action. Plus, I am not shooting billboards...but I am shooting things (weddings) that are often printed at 20x30 and sometimes even larger. There are some of us on this forum that are pushing the boundaries of what a 16mp aps-c can do. Some of those same boundaries are why I was never tempted by the D700...but the D800 gives me a lot of room to grow.

09-20-2012, 02:00 PM	#20
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Docrwm Posts like yours are among the saddest that I read here. A loyal user of the brand, an enthusiastic one even, leaves because the equipment just can't cut it. amazing camera and make it a great camera. I await the user reviews of the Mk II but have less hope each day that in a year I will still be a Pentaxian. But there are plenty newcomers to Pentax every day. Plenty of them come from FF if this very forum is to be believed...

09-21-2012, 08:56 AM	#22
Allison Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 667	Originally posted by eurostar Ehm... it was just a joke. Yet, if it is for enlargements, 24 MP on APS-C enlarge exactly as 24MP on fullframe. There can be some advantage, but wanting a full frame doesn't need actual reasons. On the other side, just like Canopn and Nikon don't bother to create a medium format camera, or Mamiya-Leaf to produce APS-C and FF ones, Pentax could be in the same mindset. Yeah, I know it was a joke, I was just in a bad mood yesterday from getting blasted for being a little skeptical of Pentax's future. 24mp is 24mp, but there is a difference with 24mp aps-c and FF enlargements when you are talking about low light shots. Most of my second shooters have FF and those images require less PP to reduce noise to make the enlargement. Crop has gotten much better with noise and so have PP tools (I am using mostly Lightroom 4 and Photoshop CS6 premium) in removing it, but those low light FF images can just be pushed a little more. I totally know that most people don't need this capacity, but unfortunately, we keep having dancing at wedding receptions in complete darkness except for the horrible DJ lights! I really do wish that MF would have been the answer for me...but my bank account is happy that it wasn't.