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12-18-2012, 06:23 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by slocant Quote
Actually Leica did it... in 2003.
And Kodak did it in 1991 with the DCS 100. The Nikon patent could be intended as a hedge against someone acquiring the Kodak patents and using them in court to prove they invented rectangles with rounded corners or some such nonsense (I refer to the recent unpleasantness between Apple & Samsung).

12-18-2012, 07:24 AM   #17
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Has anybody *read* the disclosure?

Reading is really the first step in patent analysis and should generally come before discussion of the scope and content of the disclosure.

I'm not interested in explaining what is going on here, that takes more effort that I'm willing to exert. But I've read enough to know that the disclosure isn't simply a digital back.
12-18-2012, 07:35 AM   #18
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Personally I would rather Nikon keep supporting their film scanners and maintain parts for them. That will keep film cameras going in the digital age , for things other than shooting flim, more than this patent. But then again none of the F3HP or FM2 or LX cameras would expereince autofocus problems with the digital back on them would they?
12-18-2012, 07:38 AM   #19
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assuming the patent is to exclude others from doing the same, it has very little impact on nikon and pentax users.

It would be much more important, perhaps for canon users who still have FD lens collections which are worthless except for using on Micro 4/3 bodies today

12-18-2012, 09:09 AM - 1 Like   #20
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Why would any film shooter want this? Those of us that shoot film do so because we like film, we do not dream about defacing our film bodies and turning them into a DSLR.

I hope Nikon invests millions in this and it flops. Pentax is smart enough to avoid this like the plague.

Phil.
12-18-2012, 09:52 AM   #21
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What is needed is an affordable film development machine that cost ~$150 so people can develop film negatives at home.
I guess many people will but them as now it cost close to $10 a roll to develop film.
12-18-2012, 05:07 PM   #22
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Digital backs are not new, but they have always been very expensive. But sensors are getting cheaper and cheaper, and it's just a matter of time before ....

1. You can buy them on Ebay or RadioShack or wherever as a specialized component, like a solar cell. (OK, maybe not quite like a solar cell from Radio Shack, but certainly via the Internet, for cheap.)

2. Then someone will buy one and hack it onto their old Canon A-1 or Olympus OM-2 or whatever, in their basement, just for fun. They'll post how-to videos on YouTube or PF, of course.

3. Then some independent company will quickly offer a niche retrofit kit for all the other similar Canons or Olympuses or whatever, just like Leitax.

4. Once that is on the web, all the imitators from all over the world will do this for cheaper via Ebay, because it is just electronics, and this doesn't actually require any special equipment or expertise in manufacturing optics. There are millions of electronics manufacturers, and zillions of unused film SLRs sitting in basements all over the world, so the probability of this happening is approximately 100%.

I can't see how this can be just a utility patent for a digital back since this is prior art, but assuming that this is the crux of the claim, it's likely this was filed for purely defensive purposes, to prevent the above scenario from disrupting Nikon's core business. And in that respect, it is good for other traditional camera manufacturers, especially Canon, but also Sony and Pentax.

In some ways, Pentax already offers a retrofit kit -- the $316 K-01. In addition to the industry's best APS-c sensor, it also comes with a body so no need to bother replacing your old leaky foam seals. It also comes with a convenient two-eyed LCD to replace your dusty one-eyed viewfinder. They crippled lens mount is a mandatory option, but there is an electronic green button to compensate for that.

12-21-2012, 10:35 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnX Quote
Don't forget, if you patent something it'll often act as a spoiler to prevent any other company going down that route.
I think they should have to show several working prototypes to make a patent like this stick. That would keep companies from pulling stunts like Honewell did to Minolta et al. with the AF law suites. Honeywell never really had a working af, just concepts.
12-21-2012, 02:28 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by gofour3 Quote
Why would any film shooter want this? Those of us that shoot film do so because we like film, we do not dream about defacing our film bodies and turning them into a DSLR.

I hope Nikon invests millions in this and it flops. Pentax is smart enough to avoid this like the plague.

Phil.
A digital back for a camera which is intended to have a removable back, such as MX, could be used like old professionals used polaroid to test light and composition before doing their real shots that have the delay of full processing to see what they actually got. Digital back would give the instant check, then drop on a film back and get the film quality picture.

The paptent would not stop Pentax from doing the same idea. A digital back is just an idea and not a specific manner of doing anything. What would be covered inthe patent is some specific method of doing it. All it takes is someone to read the claims for the loopholes and then exploit those loopholes. Voila - a different way of achievign the same gross result - digital back for film SLR.
12-21-2012, 03:39 PM   #25
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It seems a long way round to get a FF Pentax, but may be quicker than what we have at the moment.

Now where did I put down my LX's.
12-21-2012, 07:24 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Very cool- but it's probably still an early concept. Might be several years before this goes commercial, if it ever does.

With that said, a digital K1000 would be sexy.
My guess is that it is an old patent from the early digital days filed or refiled now. Companies like Nikon (and Pentax) patents a lot of things that never see the light of day.
12-23-2012, 04:50 AM   #27
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Not in this decade coming to the market at a FF sensor.
12-23-2012, 12:20 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by tim60 Quote
A digital back for a camera which is intended to have a removable back, such as MX, could be used like old professionals used polaroid to test light and composition before doing their real shots that have the delay of full processing to see what they actually got. Digital back would give the instant check, then drop on a film back and get the film quality picture.

The paptent would not stop Pentax from doing the same idea. A digital back is just an idea and not a specific manner of doing anything. What would be covered inthe patent is some specific method of doing it. All it takes is someone to read the claims for the loopholes and then exploit those loopholes. Voila - a different way of achievign the same gross result - digital back for film SLR.
The Mamiya RZ67 MF system has had interchangeable film/digital/Polaroid backs for awhile now and for a professional system like that I can see its benefit.

However for an old 35mm film camera you would not be able to remove the cameras back cover mid roll to change between film and digital, as you can with the Mamiya. Film would still be loaded the old way and not contained in a removable back. You would have to unload the roll of film before switching to the digital back or face exposing the roll of film.

Phil.
12-30-2012, 02:19 PM   #29
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While I would love to see something like this.... I somehow doubt it will ever come to market. I tend to agree with those who believe it's a hedge against other's doing something similar and cutting into current and future DSLR sales. However, if it did come to market, it would very likely be limited to high end Nikons such as the F3 in the Nikon Rumors article. Those of us who used prosumer cameras such as my N90S would likely be left out in the cold.

Still it's an intriguing concept and one can always hope. There are literally millions of old film cameras gathering dust. A back like this might return at least a few of those to active use. I also seen no reason why Pentax couldn't produce something similar if they were of a mind to do so. Patients are all about the details.

--Ron
01-01-2013, 11:33 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by DaveHolmes Quote
A suggestion I made in a thread a while ago... Was told not possible... Nikon have put a patent in (possibly around the same time...)

Nikon patents a digital back for 35mm film SLR cameras | Nikon Rumors

Imagine that on to one of the many Mx's, ME supers etc in circulation... Could have been a total game changer for Pentax....
A very-general patent could actually be invalidated based on the suggestion you made (and prior companies' work, too, of course).

The actual nuances could still be patented (method to package a battery in a film-sized-canister), etc. Don't know what the existing patents have achieved.

Unfortunately, patenting something doesn't mean it wasn't already patented, or in the public domain (or even produced!).
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