Next desired enthusiast/prosumer camera from Ricoh Pentax

neuropol · 12-30-2012, 08:18 AM

Oops, I voted for FF Mirrorless. Useless, IMO.

I totally meant to hit FF DSLR.

Jonathan Mac · 12-30-2012, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by Ash

Wouldn't that be a K-5? Or are you after its added focusing features as well?

Sort of. The K5 is too expensive for me and I like the modern style of the K30 design, it sets it apart. Adding an LCD and a grip option wouldn't add much to the production price of a K30, keeping it still well below the price of a K5. They'd also make money from selling the grip itself, which is why it doesn't make sense to produce any DSLR without a grip option these days.

bunjes · 12-30-2012, 09:28 AM

Can I vote simply for continued success for Pentax?

siamthai · 12-30-2012, 09:56 AM

As for me I'll stay with APS-C since I'm not in need of FF, the K-5 is so good that I'll probably keep it for ever :-) But I belive it's important for Pentax to have a FF since many photographers seem to leave Pentax for other brands that have FF.

But wouldn't it be absolutely great if they made a MF camera priced at about 4-5000 USD? An impossible dream of course but still... back in pre-DSLR time I used MF and 35mm and it would be nice to afford a MF again (^_^)

Last edited by siamthai; 12-30-2012 at 10:18 AM.

neuropol · 12-30-2012, 10:21 AM

I like the K-30 and it feels good in-hand but the couple of problems I have with it are as follows:

1) The upper-right corner thumb rest doesn't need to be as sharply pronounced. It makes that corner of the camera more prone to hang-ups in a variety of situations
2) Bottom edge is a little too sharp, for my personal tastes. It feels solid and easily handled, but again, some times a bit too much is noticeable in a variety of ways
3) The pop up flash housing doesn't need to be as forward and pronounced. Seems to be an added amount of material that could be refined a bit more in overall - hand-to-camera feel.
4) I like the new body texture on the K30, but honestly, Pentax nailed it with the K-5 & K-7. That particular finish feels very durable and has excellent traction, and the sense of the body being metal alloy extends right through the finish to the hand. It's a very satisfactory grip feel and provides a much different confidence in-hand. The squared and angled edges of the K-5, perhaps slightly larger, maybe closer to the K10D size, would be simply dreamy.

The battery grip for the K-5 is what I would consider near-perfect. The thumb rest is nothing short of an ergonomic masterpiece. The button feel, however, needs a bit more indication for the thumb. The relatively flat nature of the surrounding areas makes it difficult at times to get the sense of what button you might actually be trying to use and can require an actual glance to be sure. That can be frustrating but could also be easily remedied to just getting used to the camera feel over time. But, even still, a more pronounced design, perhaps with small braille-type 'nubs' would help and may lend itself to a shorter adjustment time for such things.

I only just recently made the switch to Pentax after years of using Canon, which felt very clunky and, at times, overly large with only 'just-enough' ergonomic design to be utilitarian. The Pentax ergonomics was one of the big factors in my decision, with the obvious aside involving the superior innerds of the thing. Nikon feels good in-hand, and they hit a lot of key points with fit/function, but I'm going to have to kiss Pentax's butt on this one and say that they, by far, are the best form factor designers I've seen yet, in my amateur opinion.

For a Full Frame Pentax, the size of the K10D, which I've previously owned - with battery grip (keep in mind, I've never held a K20 but I would imagine that it feels virtually the same with minor advancements in design) would be my recommendation for a design basis. Less rounded features and more like the K-5/7 and I think you would have a camera that, by feel alone, would set itself apart even further in excellence by design. I'm going to go out on a limb and ask what people would think of moving the aperture preview to a dedicated button on the side of the shutter compartment. On Nikon bodies, the aperture preview button is a perfect default location for one of two fingers that fall comfortably in to that position at all times. Not that I don't like it being on the power toggle on Pentax, but I think that location can be distracting at times and may put unwanted stress and wear on the main power switch over extended time. Any way, open to hearing thoughts on that if any one has experience with Nikon bodies. Canon puts it on the left side of the shutter compartment which has never seemed to be the exact right spot for it to be, although it does fall right under your thumb when holding the camera in a horizontal position. It works, but it's a very forgetful spot for it to be. Nikon's is mint, Pentax's is good but I can only wish for that to be different.

http://photofan.jp/camera/html/uploads/img499e4baf6ba67.jpg

I need more coffee.

DominicVII · 12-30-2012, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by causey

Nikon D600's weight is only 760 grams, battery included.

Sorry for my ignorance.

I am all for a FF if this is what the Pentaxians want, but I am not one of them.

tacticdesigns · 12-30-2012, 10:54 AM

I think Pentax has a pretty good camera line-up right now. I can't think of anything that is really missing, except for FF.

But then again, this is about what camera you see yourself buying next. I don't really need FF for what I do.

I guess thinking about it now, the camera that I really want is a K30 with faster autofocus. Maybe just get the faster autofocus from the newer K-5 II down to the entry level camera (K40?) if they haven't already done that. That would be my ideal camera. Not too expensive, but with great raw power.

But make it look retro. Make it look like a Pentax MX or miniature Pentax Spotmatic or something. that would be cool!

Oh, yeah. The other idea is to have the top dial able to flip over so that on one side you have P + all the shutter speeds (Like the Fujifilm X-Pro1 or X-E1), but when you flip the dial over, you see the more contemporary mode dial with Auto, P, A, S, M, Scene, etc.

And then toss in WiFi so I can take good pictures with my dSLR and then still be able to post them to Facebook wherever I am.

But I'd like to see more lenses at a bit lower prices. A nice 35mm f1.8 or 50mm f1.8 that doesn't cost so much. And a pair of moderately priced f2.8 lenses.

Other than that, maybe something completely different like a zoom lens (18-135 range or 28-105 range) with a built-in shutter that can flash-sync nearer to 1/500 sec?

Edit: Oh, yeah. And an even cleaner ISO6400. Pentax seems to be doing a really great job at higher iso. But I'll keep asking for this regardless, since the better a camera can do this, the more fun I seem to have with the camera.

Wired · 12-30-2012, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by lightbulb

I can control my ocd. APSC with stronger specs will do for me.

me too.

K5 body style. maybe a tad bigger
24+mp APS-C sensor
best in class dynamic range
best in class image processing
7fps
50-64,000 usable iso in 1/3 stops
fully weather sealed
magnesium body
921,000 dot 3" monitor
top plate display
100% optical viewfinder
.7 magnification
30 sec - 1/8000 sec shutter speed
uncrippled K mount
1/250 sec flash sync speed
5 shot bracketing
wireless triggers front and rear
fully wireless flash system (not using preflashes) with a new flagship fully weather-sealed flash gun
full manual video mode
AF accuracy/speed in low light of the K5ii/s or better
NO articulating or flippy screen. I would not buy the next camera no matter how awesome it is if it had a fillpy screen. hate those things.
wouldn't mind GPS/Wifi built in

you'll notice I left focus points out. I can't judge AF points because I only shoot center point for both meter and focus. If the above camera comes out, or hits on all my major points (I can live with the old flash system, but I would love higher sync speeds!) then I would sell my D600 kit.

Last edited by Wired; 12-30-2012 at 11:49 AM.

Billgscott · 12-30-2012, 12:22 PM

I have a range of FF lenses from Pentax and Sigma just waiting for a FF K mount. I love the erganomics of the K10 / K20D with grip and a slightly larger (taller with the same foot print) body would suit me to the ground!

I have a K5 and grip for the tele ranges and even have a FF 17 - 35mm for the new KFF

Ash · 12-30-2012, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by bunjes

Can I vote simply for continued success for Pentax?

That will follow with Pentax producing gear that the user base wants.

Hence this poll.

mecrox · 12-30-2012, 02:54 PM

I've voted for an APS-C MILC. The reason is that it would really get my interest. A new APS-C DSLR to stand as a flagship above the K5 is needed and I am sure will be excellent, but it would also be more of the same. I wouldn't buy a Pentax DSLR FF camera anyway. To share a bit of tech, perhaps the new MILC could have some of the things likely to go into a new DSLR - still better focusing system, revamped flash system, fast RAW processing and either a title LCD or an EVF (at least one or other).

The new MILC could be a K-01 mark II, an entirely new idea, or maybe a Ricoh camera with smaller sensor (m43 or 1") and a fixed zoom or even fixed prime which could continue Ricoh's tradition of building almost cult cameras for street photographers. In a way, with Pentax being so fixated about the K-mount, there is more scope for some exciting innovation from the Ricoh side than from the Pentax one.

In the longer run, I hope Pentax design an entirely new mount for MILCs and for whatever DSLRs will eventually morph into. This would not replace but run in tandem with K-mount although eventually the intention would be that the new mount replaces the K-mount when that one has finally had its day.

saladin · 12-30-2012, 03:33 PM

If Pentax could draw one single piece of guidance from this thread, it would surely be that pretty much everyone wants the AF system overhauled and improved? That seems to be the case for both the contrast detect and phase detect users.

so, whether it's a flagship in either Dslr field or a state of the art MILC, we want it equipped with what i will name "SAFOX E=MC2", lol.

Ash · 12-30-2012, 03:45 PM

Not just AF, but P-TTL revamping for better accuracy and speed.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 12-30-2012, 03:47 PM

Here is my interest level in Ricoh products on a scale from 0 to 10 with 0 meaning no interest, and 10 meaning I will buy unless the product is poorly implemented:

10: modular MILC system like GXR but with sensor consigned to its own module (and with a mount) rather than being tied to a lens. (This would be a platform that would be nice to invest in).
10: FF MILC allowing use of LTM and M lenses with simple mechanical adapters (I would like to be able to use my FF lenses on a FF digital camera)
7: A weatherproof Q or one with a B&W sensor
5: APS-C MILC (I might be interested in it, if it offers some particularly attractive set of features)
0: DSLRs of any format
0: K mount lenses

I do hope Ricoh introduces an attractive MILC system, even if it won't be attractive to me.

I do expect Ricoh to keep producing Pentax DSLRs for some years, but I expect the model introduction cycle to slow down as it already happened with the K-5/K-5II which have just been refinements of the K-7.

DominicVII · 12-30-2012, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by mecrox

This would not replace but run in tandem with K-mount although eventually the intention would be that the new mount replaces the K-mount when that one has finally had its day.

Could you give me one good reason for discontinuing the K-mount? Why someone would make
such an outlandish suggestion, completely blows my mind. The backward compatibility of the K-mount
was one of the primary reasons why I switched from Nikon to Pentax.

The day the K-mount dies, fire and brimstone will rain down upon earth.

View Poll Results: What camera, that you intend to buy, do you want Ricoh/Pentax to come out with next?
#1: Full Frame (35mm) Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera	47	12.88%
#2: Full Frame (35mm) digital SLR camera	200	54.79%
#3: Medium Format digital SLR camera (to supercede 645D)	5	1.37%
#4: APS-C Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera	13	3.56%
#5: APS-C digital SLR camera to supercede the K-5	86	23.56%
#6: Other camera (please elaborate)	14	3.84%
Voters: 365. You may not vote on this poll

12-30-2012, 10:21 AM	#80
neuropol New Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Vermont Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 14	I like the K-30 and it feels good in-hand but the couple of problems I have with it are as follows: 1) The upper-right corner thumb rest doesn't need to be as sharply pronounced. It makes that corner of the camera more prone to hang-ups in a variety of situations 2) Bottom edge is a little too sharp, for my personal tastes. It feels solid and easily handled, but again, some times a bit too much is noticeable in a variety of ways 3) The pop up flash housing doesn't need to be as forward and pronounced. Seems to be an added amount of material that could be refined a bit more in overall - hand-to-camera feel. 4) I like the new body texture on the K30, but honestly, Pentax nailed it with the K-5 & K-7. That particular finish feels very durable and has excellent traction, and the sense of the body being metal alloy extends right through the finish to the hand. It's a very satisfactory grip feel and provides a much different confidence in-hand. The squared and angled edges of the K-5, perhaps slightly larger, maybe closer to the K10D size, would be simply dreamy. The battery grip for the K-5 is what I would consider near-perfect. The thumb rest is nothing short of an ergonomic masterpiece. The button feel, however, needs a bit more indication for the thumb. The relatively flat nature of the surrounding areas makes it difficult at times to get the sense of what button you might actually be trying to use and can require an actual glance to be sure. That can be frustrating but could also be easily remedied to just getting used to the camera feel over time. But, even still, a more pronounced design, perhaps with small braille-type 'nubs' would help and may lend itself to a shorter adjustment time for such things. I only just recently made the switch to Pentax after years of using Canon, which felt very clunky and, at times, overly large with only 'just-enough' ergonomic design to be utilitarian. The Pentax ergonomics was one of the big factors in my decision, with the obvious aside involving the superior innerds of the thing. Nikon feels good in-hand, and they hit a lot of key points with fit/function, but I'm going to have to kiss Pentax's butt on this one and say that they, by far, are the best form factor designers I've seen yet, in my amateur opinion. For a Full Frame Pentax, the size of the K10D, which I've previously owned - with battery grip (keep in mind, I've never held a K20 but I would imagine that it feels virtually the same with minor advancements in design) would be my recommendation for a design basis. Less rounded features and more like the K-5/7 and I think you would have a camera that, by feel alone, would set itself apart even further in excellence by design. I'm going to go out on a limb and ask what people would think of moving the aperture preview to a dedicated button on the side of the shutter compartment. On Nikon bodies, the aperture preview button is a perfect default location for one of two fingers that fall comfortably in to that position at all times. Not that I don't like it being on the power toggle on Pentax, but I think that location can be distracting at times and may put unwanted stress and wear on the main power switch over extended time. Any way, open to hearing thoughts on that if any one has experience with Nikon bodies. Canon puts it on the left side of the shutter compartment which has never seemed to be the exact right spot for it to be, although it does fall right under your thumb when holding the camera in a horizontal position. It works, but it's a very forgetful spot for it to be. Nikon's is mint, Pentax's is good but I can only wish for that to be different. http://photofan.jp/camera/html/uploads/img499e4baf6ba67.jpg I need more coffee. Last edited by neuropol; 12-30-2012 at 10:39 AM.

12-30-2012, 10:54 AM	#82
tacticdesigns Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Milton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42	I think Pentax has a pretty good camera line-up right now. I can't think of anything that is really missing, except for FF. But then again, this is about what camera you see yourself buying next. I don't really need FF for what I do. I guess thinking about it now, the camera that I really want is a K30 with faster autofocus. Maybe just get the faster autofocus from the newer K-5 II down to the entry level camera (K40?) if they haven't already done that. That would be my ideal camera. Not too expensive, but with great raw power. But make it look retro. Make it look like a Pentax MX or miniature Pentax Spotmatic or something. that would be cool! Oh, yeah. The other idea is to have the top dial able to flip over so that on one side you have P + all the shutter speeds (Like the Fujifilm X-Pro1 or X-E1), but when you flip the dial over, you see the more contemporary mode dial with Auto, P, A, S, M, Scene, etc. And then toss in WiFi so I can take good pictures with my dSLR and then still be able to post them to Facebook wherever I am. But I'd like to see more lenses at a bit lower prices. A nice 35mm f1.8 or 50mm f1.8 that doesn't cost so much. And a pair of moderately priced f2.8 lenses. Other than that, maybe something completely different like a zoom lens (18-135 range or 28-105 range) with a built-in shutter that can flash-sync nearer to 1/500 sec? Edit: Oh, yeah. And an even cleaner ISO6400. Pentax seems to be doing a really great job at higher iso. But I'll keep asking for this regardless, since the better a camera can do this, the more fun I seem to have with the camera. Last edited by tacticdesigns; 12-30-2012 at 11:01 AM. Reason: Added the bit about iso.

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12-30-2012, 08:18 AM	#76
neuropol New Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Vermont Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 14	Oops, I voted for FF Mirrorless. Useless, IMO. I totally meant to hit FF DSLR.

12-30-2012, 09:19 AM	#77
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 7,216	Originally posted by Ash Wouldn't that be a K-5? Or are you after its added focusing features as well? Sort of. The K5 is too expensive for me and I like the modern style of the K30 design, it sets it apart. Adding an LCD and a grip option wouldn't add much to the production price of a K30, keeping it still well below the price of a K5. They'd also make money from selling the grip itself, which is why it doesn't make sense to produce any DSLR without a grip option these days.

12-30-2012, 09:28 AM	#78
bunjes New Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Bozeman Montana Posts: 21	Can I vote simply for continued success for Pentax?

12-30-2012, 09:56 AM	#79
siamthai Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Svealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 172	As for me I'll stay with APS-C since I'm not in need of FF, the K-5 is so good that I'll probably keep it for ever :-) But I belive it's important for Pentax to have a FF since many photographers seem to leave Pentax for other brands that have FF. But wouldn't it be absolutely great if they made a MF camera priced at about 4-5000 USD? An impossible dream of course but still... back in pre-DSLR time I used MF and 35mm and it would be nice to afford a MF again (^_^) Last edited by siamthai; 12-30-2012 at 10:18 AM.

12-30-2012, 10:29 AM	#81
DominicVII Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 456	Originally posted by causey Nikon D600's weight is only 760 grams, battery included. Sorry for my ignorance. I am all for a FF if this is what the Pentaxians want, but I am not one of them.

12-30-2012, 11:34 AM	#83
Wired Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,519	Originally posted by lightbulb I can control my ocd. APSC with stronger specs will do for me. me too. K5 body style. maybe a tad bigger 24+mp APS-C sensor best in class dynamic range best in class image processing 7fps 50-64,000 usable iso in 1/3 stops fully weather sealed magnesium body 921,000 dot 3" monitor top plate display 100% optical viewfinder .7 magnification 30 sec - 1/8000 sec shutter speed uncrippled K mount 1/250 sec flash sync speed 5 shot bracketing wireless triggers front and rear fully wireless flash system (not using preflashes) with a new flagship fully weather-sealed flash gun full manual video mode AF accuracy/speed in low light of the K5ii/s or better NO articulating or flippy screen. I would not buy the next camera no matter how awesome it is if it had a fillpy screen. hate those things. wouldn't mind GPS/Wifi built in you'll notice I left focus points out. I can't judge AF points because I only shoot center point for both meter and focus. If the above camera comes out, or hits on all my major points (I can live with the old flash system, but I would love higher sync speeds!) then I would sell my D600 kit. Last edited by Wired; 12-30-2012 at 11:49 AM.

12-30-2012, 12:22 PM	#84
Billgscott Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: York Posts: 241	I have a range of FF lenses from Pentax and Sigma just waiting for a FF K mount. I love the erganomics of the K10 / K20D with grip and a slightly larger (taller with the same foot print) body would suit me to the ground! I have a K5 and grip for the tele ranges and even have a FF 17 - 35mm for the new KFF

12-30-2012, 01:08 PM	#85
Ash Community Manager Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,704 Original Poster	Originally posted by bunjes Can I vote simply for continued success for Pentax? That will follow with Pentax producing gear that the user base wants. Hence this poll.

12-30-2012, 02:54 PM	#86
mecrox Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,368	I've voted for an APS-C MILC. The reason is that it would really get my interest. A new APS-C DSLR to stand as a flagship above the K5 is needed and I am sure will be excellent, but it would also be more of the same. I wouldn't buy a Pentax DSLR FF camera anyway. To share a bit of tech, perhaps the new MILC could have some of the things likely to go into a new DSLR - still better focusing system, revamped flash system, fast RAW processing and either a title LCD or an EVF (at least one or other). The new MILC could be a K-01 mark II, an entirely new idea, or maybe a Ricoh camera with smaller sensor (m43 or 1") and a fixed zoom or even fixed prime which could continue Ricoh's tradition of building almost cult cameras for street photographers. In a way, with Pentax being so fixated about the K-mount, there is more scope for some exciting innovation from the Ricoh side than from the Pentax one. In the longer run, I hope Pentax design an entirely new mount for MILCs and for whatever DSLRs will eventually morph into. This would not replace but run in tandem with K-mount although eventually the intention would be that the new mount replaces the K-mount when that one has finally had its day.

12-30-2012, 03:33 PM	#87
saladin Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: outer eastern melbourne, australia Posts: 400	If Pentax could draw one single piece of guidance from this thread, it would surely be that pretty much everyone wants the AF system overhauled and improved? That seems to be the case for both the contrast detect and phase detect users. so, whether it's a flagship in either Dslr field or a state of the art MILC, we want it equipped with what i will name "SAFOX E=MC2", lol.

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12-30-2012, 03:45 PM	#88
Ash Community Manager Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,704 Original Poster	Not just AF, but P-TTL revamping for better accuracy and speed.

12-30-2012, 03:47 PM	#89
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Here is my interest level in Ricoh products on a scale from 0 to 10 with 0 meaning no interest, and 10 meaning I will buy unless the product is poorly implemented: 10: modular MILC system like GXR but with sensor consigned to its own module (and with a mount) rather than being tied to a lens. (This would be a platform that would be nice to invest in). 10: FF MILC allowing use of LTM and M lenses with simple mechanical adapters (I would like to be able to use my FF lenses on a FF digital camera) 7: A weatherproof Q or one with a B&W sensor 5: APS-C MILC (I might be interested in it, if it offers some particularly attractive set of features) 0: DSLRs of any format 0: K mount lenses I do hope Ricoh introduces an attractive MILC system, even if it won't be attractive to me. I do expect Ricoh to keep producing Pentax DSLRs for some years, but I expect the model introduction cycle to slow down as it already happened with the K-5/K-5II which have just been refinements of the K-7.

12-30-2012, 04:10 PM	#90
DominicVII Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 456	Originally posted by mecrox This would not replace but run in tandem with K-mount although eventually the intention would be that the new mount replaces the K-mount when that one has finally had its day. Could you give me one good reason for discontinuing the K-mount? Why someone would make such an outlandish suggestion, completely blows my mind. The backward compatibility of the K-mount was one of the primary reasons why I switched from Nikon to Pentax. The day the K-mount dies, fire and brimstone will rain down upon earth.