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View Poll Results: What camera, that you intend to buy, do you want Ricoh/Pentax to come out with next?
#1: Full Frame (35mm) Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera 4712.88%
#2: Full Frame (35mm) digital SLR camera 20054.79%
#3: Medium Format digital SLR camera (to supercede 645D) 51.37%
#4: APS-C Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera 133.56%
#5: APS-C digital SLR camera to supercede the K-5 8623.56%
#6: Other camera (please elaborate) 143.84%
Voters: 365. You may not vote on this poll

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12-30-2012, 04:21 PM   #91
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Laurentiu, dSLRs are currently vastly more popular than your MILC propositions. You might just be well ahead of your time.
But even just from this poll so far, there is a lot of interest in dSLR advancement, which you've expressed no interest in at all. Perhaps other brands are creating the product you're after? It is possible that Pentax may not be entertaining a FF MILC for some time to come (after the other big companies introduce their own versions).

12-30-2012, 04:25 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by neuropol Quote
Oops, I voted for FF Mirrorless. Useless, IMO.

I totally meant to hit FF DSLR.
That's OK, it hasn't affected the stats much.
12-30-2012, 04:34 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonathan Mac Quote
Sort of. The K5 is too expensive for me and I like the modern style of the K30 design, it sets it apart. Adding an LCD and a grip option wouldn't add much to the production price of a K30, keeping it still well below the price of a K5. They'd also make money from selling the grip itself, which is why it doesn't make sense to produce any DSLR without a grip option these days.
The K-5 will soon be sub-$500 in the marketplace and the grip will be the only other major accessory investment.
But other accessories like lighting are even more expensive.
12-30-2012, 04:48 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by DominicVII Quote
Could you give me one good reason for discontinuing the K-mount? Why someone would make
such an outlandish suggestion, completely blows my mind. The backward compatibility of the K-mount
was one of the primary reasons why I switched from Nikon to Pentax.

The day the K-mount dies, fire and brimstone will rain down upon earth.
Nothing lasts forever. Eventually DSLRs will be superceded by a different kind of camera. Pentax need to plan for many years down the line. They cannot run a living museum. Backward-compatibility doesn't sell new lenses. Besides, if Pentax decide to establish a serious presence in the MILC sector, they will pretty well have to design a new mount. Obviously a big if and who knows what might happen. In the meantime and for a long time, I don't think anyone is suggesting dispensing with the K-mount. I'ms sure Pentax will have it for as long as they sell DSLRs, but if the day comes when they no longer do ...

12-30-2012, 05:14 PM   #95
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No, the production of new lenses building on the success of past lenses sells lenses. And interestingly, FA Limited senses are still selling. The indication that dSLR is an outdated format is fanciful. This poll suggests otherwise. It is the technology behind the format that gets dated, not the format itself. Having MILC as another option is just that. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, and as such serve different types of photographers. And why does Pentax have to design a new mount?
12-30-2012, 05:20 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Nothing lasts forever. Eventually DSLRs will be superceded by a different kind of camera. Pentax need to plan for many years down the line. They cannot run a living museum. Backward-compatibility doesn't sell new lenses. Besides, if Pentax decide to establish a serious presence in the MILC sector, they will pretty well have to design a new mount. Obviously a big if and who knows what might happen. In the meantime and for a long time, I don't think anyone is suggesting dispensing with the K-mount. I'ms sure Pentax will have it for as long as they sell DSLRs, but if the day comes when they no longer do ...
I really do not see the need for a new mount for a MILC. Pentax cannot afford to take risks and they
certainly cannot afford to alienate their existing consumer base. That you need to formulate a corporate
strategy for many years ahead is just a myth. That you need to be innovative at every cost is another
myth. Astute companies will let others do the hard work and incorporate only that which is foolproof.

K-01 and Q form an excellent basis for a twofold mirrorless system. I am not interested in the latest fad;
what I want is quality that is able to stand the test of time.

I believe Pentax are doing the right things in terms of the products they have introduced. What they
need to work on now is a shrewd marketing strategy. They do not have the wherewithal to ads and
infomercials the way Nikon and Canon do. Hence they have to find other ways to attain their objective.

D

Last edited by Ash; 12-30-2012 at 05:50 PM.
12-30-2012, 05:47 PM   #97
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All well and good to talk about what we think Pentax should and shouldn't do, and what the Jones's are up to. But this thread is all about what *you* want. Discuss that and how the desired camera would enable you to do your photography jobs better/easier.

12-30-2012, 07:05 PM   #98
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in terms of wants and usage, i want pentax to tell sigma to build the 120-300 2.8 in pentax mount! or produce one themselves.
12-30-2012, 07:44 PM   #99
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Thanks for the poll, Ash. I hope it will continue to send a clear message (as it currently does).

I personally don't think that Pentax's next camera will be an FF model, but I nevertheless wish it were. The moment Pentax releases an FF model, I'll buy it, so I'd rather not pay for a stop gap solution in between.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Sony did this with their first digital FF - didn't work out so well for them.
I believe Sony's lack of success with the A900/A850 cannot be explained by this (here, pricing an entry FF model much cheaper than a pro-sibling, or many other reasons that have been suggested). The true reasons are probably manifold and I'll always find it problematic when people attempt to pinpoint the cause to a single issue.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Even their [Pentax's] entry level dSLRs have been full featured.
That's not entirely true, but in general Pentax had indeed less need to artificially cripple models to protect sales of more expensive models.

QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
I doubt Pentax can attract much new users outside existing Pentax DSLR users with this camera, no matter how good or how low the price is.
That remains to be seen (and depends on whether Pentax manages to pull one out of the hat and create a unique selling proposition). However, it is entirely clear already, that Pentax is bleeding Pentaxians -- read "photography enthusiasts that would never be happy with a two lens-kit only and hence represent a large lens buying force" -- every hour. I've heard so many "I've left Pentax because after x years of hearing the FF model will come out next year, I gave up and sold all my FF lenses." stories, it isn't funny anymore.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
A 24Mp FF camera will have a hard time selling given that APS-C is itself going well above 16Mp and it would be difficult to appreciate an advantage over the K-5.
I don't think so. Even 12MP FF models sold well in the past despite higher resolution APS-C being available at the same time. And this makes sense, because there is much more to FF than being able to print bigger (with the same pixel-pitch). I also believe that there aren't that many users who truly need more resolution, but would very much welcome better AF performance (which automatically comes with the format even if you reuse the same AF module), more dynamic range (also comes with the format if the sensor performance is the same), more DOF control, bigger viewfinders, etc.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
The major issue to me, which has been discussed in K-3 speculation and FF under development, is it being another thing to knock, snag or rip off inadvertently.
How many other things have you knocked, snagged, or ripped off inadvertently from your camera?
I see your point, but in practice articulated screens seem to be very sturdy and are truly useful when you need them. Constructions that allow the screen to be folded against the camera body can even make the camera more robust as one does not need to worry about scratching the screen anymore. (And who needs one when the image playback can be blended into your optical viewfinder because you are using Pentax-patented hybrid viewfinder, OK, just dreamin' ).

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Up scale the K-5 ergonomics and give us a Sony A900 OVF. I don't really care if it has the 36MP or 24MP sensor..... or something totally new.
Oh, yes, please!
Don't care about the MP either.
I'd want an AA filter, though, even with 36MP.

QuoteOriginally posted by Mareket Quote
My 16-50 won't cover a full frame sensor, and an equivalent lens will cost a bomb.
That is not true. A Canon 70-200/4 is cheaper than the equivalent Pentax 50-135/2.8. It is a myth that FF lenses are more expensive. They are only more expensive, if they are faster; equivalent versions may not exist, but they wouldn't be more expensive. For the 16-50/2.8, I'd use the Tamron 28-75/2.8. Stopped down to f/4 (the f/2.8 APS-C equivalent) on a FF sensor, I'm betting you that lens runs circles around the 16-50.

Last edited by Class A; 12-30-2012 at 07:49 PM.
12-30-2012, 08:41 PM   #100
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Problem is in low light and high shuttle the metering with higher f stop will mean high iso. Zero sum game at the end?
12-30-2012, 08:45 PM - 2 Likes   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Nothing lasts forever. Eventually DSLRs will be superceded by a different kind of camera. Pentax need to plan for many years down the line. They cannot run a living museum. Backward-compatibility doesn't sell new lenses. Besides, if Pentax decide to establish a serious presence in the MILC sector, they will pretty well have to design a new mount. Obviously a big if and who knows what might happen. In the meantime and for a long time, I don't think anyone is suggesting dispensing with the K-mount. I'ms sure Pentax will have it for as long as they sell DSLRs, but if the day comes when they no longer do ...

Until I see Nikon dump their F mount which has been going strong since 1959, I am not too concerned about the K-mount not being workable on dSLR or aps-c or ff milc cameras.
12-30-2012, 10:22 PM   #102
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Good points Class A. I think we're on the same page, I believe I didn't articulate my points well. I realise entry level cams have to have fewer features than the flagship cams but I did mean that the features that are practical to the photographer are essentially present, and things like WR, second e-dial and AF fine tuning are more specialised features not essential to taking great photos on the cams.

My cams are well taken care of but are not scratch free due to being exposed to elements like sea spray, sandstone rocks and people bumping into me shooting at weddings.
12-30-2012, 11:20 PM   #103
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A new K5iis with better sensor (still 16MP) and better noise performance. AFFORDABLE full frame with body not too much bigger than K5/ii/s, with 20-24 megapixels, no frills, cheap as possible
12-31-2012, 12:14 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by DominicVII Quote
I really do not see the need for a new mount for a MILC. Pentax cannot afford to take risks and they
certainly cannot afford to alienate their existing consumer base. That you need to formulate a corporate
strategy for many years ahead is just a myth. That you need to be innovative at every cost is another
myth. Astute companies will let others do the hard work and incorporate only that which is foolproof.

K-01 and Q form an excellent basis for a twofold mirrorless system. I am not interested in the latest fad;
what I want is quality that is able to stand the test of time.

I believe Pentax are doing the right things in terms of the products they have introduced. What they
need to work on now is a shrewd marketing strategy. They do not have the wherewithal to ads and
infomercials the way Nikon and Canon do. Hence they have to find other ways to attain their objective.

D
Let's agree to disagree. Given their minuscule market share, Pentax risk becoming a little stuck if they only produce traditional APS-C DSLRs. And though it is a great camera, alas the K-01 isn't the basis for a mirrorless system. It's too big, for a start. If it was the basis for a system, Pentax would not have indicated so soon after launch that it's a one-off and unlikely to be repeated. To do MILCS right, they would need a mount designed for them, just as every other company in this sector has done. I would like Pentax to do MILCs right.

Last edited by mecrox; 12-31-2012 at 12:20 AM.
12-31-2012, 12:37 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Laurentiu, dSLRs are currently vastly more popular than your MILC propositions. You might just be well ahead of your time.
But even just from this poll so far, there is a lot of interest in dSLR advancement, which you've expressed no interest in at all. Perhaps other brands are creating the product you're after? It is possible that Pentax may not be entertaining a FF MILC for some time to come (after the other big companies introduce their own versions).
Hey Ash, you invited me to post on this thread, so I did I was happy to restrict my posts on a single thread these days, to kill time waiting for Ricoh's next official product announcement, but you asked for my vote.

DSLRs are popular because they are the status quo today, that is all. The status quo from today is not a guarantee for tomorrow's status quo.

It's like this: You walk and then you slide - it's hard to say when you actually fell - did it already happen when you started the slide or only when you hit the dust? I think you can predict the fall when you start sliding, but some people seem to like to feel it with their tender parts. Whatever.

As you have seen, there are two products I am very interested in. One is a product similar to Ricoh's GXR and the other isn't offered by any other company, so I cannot really get it yet from anyone else, or I would have.

Ricoh owns Pentax and they put out the GXR in which I have an interest (as a concept of something better). So I am interested in what Ricoh plans to do. If Pentax would be under Hoya or if they would still be independent, I would probably have given up on them already - I don't think Pentax management has had any industry insights since the 1960s. But because Pentax has been picked up by Ricoh and because I see Ricoh as a more adventurous company than Pentax was (in terms of what products they were willing to offer), I am sticking around to see what their next move will be. If their strategy for the short term future will be to let Pentax do whatever they can come up with, you won't see me here anymore, but I am waiting for an official statement or, barring that, for a product designed under Ricoh's watch (unlike all these old designs that have been put to market over the last year). OTOH, if Ricoh decides to match the Pentax brand with a next generation GXR system or with some other product that might appeal to me, I'll be happy to put my money *again* behind a Pentax product.
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