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01-02-2013, 09:56 AM   #1
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Electronic Viewfinder

EVF's are often mentioned in relation to all sorts of topics. Many photographers prefer OVF to EVF, some are interested in a hybrid viewfinder, others just love EVF. Often it is pointed out as missing on the K-01. Either way, more and more cameras have EVFs of some sort, and liveview mode is becoming a useful photography tool, rather than just a gimmick. So what kind of EVF would actually satisfy your needs?
I like the K-01 and I think its liveview mode is pretty good. If it had an EVF, I probably wouldn't use it (except maybe in some light conditions, where the bigger screen doesn't perform well), though I would like the screen to be tiltable, swiveling, articulated.. any of those For me, an EVF would be worth it if it were really fast (as in, the lag would be near unnoticeable) and really big/detailed (so that it would remind of the large, bright OVFs from the manual SLRs). Well, and it would have to have a diopter for the people who can't see very well. Of course, we will have to assume the AF on cameras without an OVF would be improved to rival PD AF. What do you guys think? Are there any cameras with really stellar EVFs already available? What would be an acceptable compromise? Or is an OVF just unbeatable?

01-02-2013, 10:14 AM   #2
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You still can't beat the clarity and low-light performance of OVF's, but the Ricoh GXR and Sony cameras have really good EVFs with high resolution and fast performance.

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01-02-2013, 10:19 AM   #3
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I think OVF will always be better (quality wise) than EVF.
As for the k-01 complains ... you can always have an OVF .
01-02-2013, 10:22 AM   #4
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A clear, contrasty, (but not overly contrasty) ultra-fast performing EVF with focus peaking would be very helpful, I would think. Especially if the camera had a button you could push in low light to punch up the brightness for easy focusing.

01-02-2013, 10:57 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
I think OVF will always be better (quality wise) than EVF.
Never say always. The technology is not there yet but I do not think it will be too long before EVF is better than OVF. 5 years maybe? When digital came out it was a joke and everyone said it would never compete with film. OVF time is numbered, just a matter of when.
01-02-2013, 11:03 AM   #6
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In general I prefer the quality of OVF, but EVF makes it possible to design a TTL-VF without the SLR design limitations, so I like both types as much. But I don't really see the point of designing a MILC like K-01, at least as long as a HQ EVF don't make the camera any cheaper.

If wanting to use EVF on a DSLR type of camera I think it would be best using a interchangeable EVF so you can change between OVF and EVF. Or maybe having a EVF overlay in OVF so you can use EVF in live-view mode.
01-02-2013, 11:22 AM   #7
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I'm really not sure that an EVF will ever be equal to an OVF (without also becoming prohibitively expensive), but maybe a compromise can be made. There are some interesting things out there, like the patents for dual-sensor (one for live view, one for shooting), the patents for hybrid viewfinders (OVF with 'digital' overlay).. and yes, as Jatrax said, EVFs might be inevitable - whether we like them or not. This is why I would like to have a discussion on it.

01-02-2013, 11:23 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Never say always. The technology is not there yet but I do not think it will be too long before EVF is better than OVF. 5 years maybe? When digital came out it was a joke and everyone said it would never compete with film. OVF time is numbered, just a matter of when.
I don't remember when the "electronic lenses" were invented for photography .
Looking trough a piece of glass and looking trough a piece of screen that displays pixels ... what do you think will look more natural, cleaner and sharper (as long the glass is good quality)?

What digital photography replaced was not the glass ... was the film.
Digital photography still needs glass for a reason ... .
01-02-2013, 11:42 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
I don't remember when the "electronic lenses" were invented for photography .
Looking trough a piece of glass and looking trough a piece of screen that displays pixels ... what do you think will look more natural, cleaner and sharper (as long the glass is good quality)?

What digital photography replaced was not the glass ... was the film.
Digital photography still needs glass for a reason ... .
As usual it's about what makes the best compromise for each user. OVF has some unique advantages, and EVF got other ones. EVF with focus peaking might be the best way of getting perfect focus when using old MF lenses, unless you have replaced the focus screen on your DSLR with one with a split screen
01-02-2013, 11:44 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
What digital photography replaced was not the glass ... was the film. Digital photography still needs glass for a reason ... .
I agree, look at my signature, I love glass.

But at some point an EVF will be better than an OVF. When that happens no one will care about OVF anymore. I don't expect that opinion to be popular, but I do expect it to happen. None of the EVF's I've used so far were anything I would want in place of an OVF. But in time the change will happen whether we want it to or not. And most likely no one will care because the EVF will be clearly better than the OVF.

Lot's of folks swore they would never use digital as it could not compete with film. Once it could compete with film they changed their minds. Will OVF go the way of buggy whips this year? No, but in 5 years or maybe a bit more an OVF will be a rarity.
01-02-2013, 11:50 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
As usual it's about what makes the best compromise for each user. OVF has some unique advantages, and EVF got other ones. EVF with focus peaking might be the best way of getting perfect focus when using old MF lenses, unless you have replaced the focus screen on your DSLR with one with a split screen
Yes, I agree, a compromise must be made and each has their own advantages/disadvantages when it comes to taking pictures.
However, from an image quality "preview", with the best of the best lined up on both sides, I doubt EVF will be just as good as OVF.

I'm OK with both and I can adjust to EVF without a problem, but when I shoot with my film cameras I always find it more relaxing and pleasing for my eyes. Is a natural light and they never get tired when a good OVF is used.

Last edited by mrNewt; 01-02-2013 at 12:29 PM.
01-02-2013, 11:54 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I agree, look at my signature, I love glass.

But at some point an EVF will be better than an OVF. When that happens no one will care about OVF anymore. I don't expect that opinion to be popular, but I do expect it to happen. None of the EVF's I've used so far were anything I would want in place of an OVF. But in time the change will happen whether we want it to or not. And most likely no one will care because the EVF will be clearly better than the OVF.

Lot's of folks swore they would never use digital as it could not compete with film. Once it could compete with film they changed their minds. Will OVF go the way of buggy whips this year? No, but in 5 years or maybe a bit more an OVF will be a rarity.
Pixels are pixels ... a square will never make a perfect transition between two points on diagonals . And you can cram so much pixels on a small screen like an EVF.
Now if you are talking about the back-end screen of the camera, that's a different story.
01-02-2013, 12:14 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
I don't remember when the "electronic lenses" were invented for photography .
Looking trough a piece of glass and looking trough a piece of screen that displays pixels ... what do you think will look more natural, cleaner and sharper (as long the glass is good quality)?

What digital photography replaced was not the glass ... was the film.
Digital photography still needs glass for a reason ... .
That was the argument for the reflex design (look what the film will capture, rather than a viewfinder with frame lines). An EVF is the obvious evolution (look what the camera will capture, including dynamic range, white balance, etc).

Whether you're looking at pixels or not is negligible, high-DPI screens have enough resolution to act as a viewfinder (in fact, they can be better than OVF, because they can magnify the image without construction limitations). The reasons EVFs are still not widespread are more practical: increased battery consumption, overheating CMOS, image "lag" and backlit screens with bad dynamic range.

Last edited by hcarvalhoalves; 01-02-2013 at 12:21 PM.
01-02-2013, 12:18 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
That was the argument for the reflex design (look what the film will capture, rather than a viewfinder with frame lines). EVF is the obvious evolution (look what the camera will capture, including dynamic range, white balance, etc).
I'm not arguing that EVF might be the "obvious evolution" ...
Read my comments again.

...

Btw ... lets NOT confuse "viewfinders" with screens ... two different categories ...
01-02-2013, 12:25 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
That was the argument for the reflex design (look what the film will capture, rather than a viewfinder with frame lines). An EVF is the obvious evolution (look what the camera will capture, including dynamic range, white balance, etc).
It was more like "look what the lens will capture", and this is still true today. The current EVFs promise to be WYSIWYG, but fail miserably.
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