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02-15-2013, 03:31 PM   #16
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Ahh, really appreciate all the thoughts. I was aware *somewhat* of their struggles from following various tech-related sites, but the general market perception of them is that they're... fine?

I think Boriscleto said it best, that they went from a small slice of a big pie to a smaller pie. Now, I'm not sure if they're a small piece of that pie - I tend to pay only brief attention to MILCs - but at least they're competing decently there. Decent enough that the public's perception of Olympus is positive. No Oly user I know these days would ever mention Oly alongside Nikon, but maybe that's a success in their way?

Whereas when it came to Pentax, there's a lot of negativity surrounding it. Mainly I think because it's very much a David vs Goliaths scene.

02-15-2013, 03:41 PM   #17
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Haha, funny, Olympus releases this statement today:

Olympus ensures again that they are committed to DSLR cameras | Photo Rumors
02-15-2013, 04:02 PM   #18
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which, as past history has shown, means they will cut slrs from the line. What's in it for them?
02-15-2013, 04:28 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by tjk911 Quote
Ahh, really appreciate all the thoughts. I was aware *somewhat* of their struggles from following various tech-related sites, but the general market perception of them is that they're... fine?

I think Boriscleto said it best, that they went from a small slice of a big pie to a smaller pie. Now, I'm not sure if they're a small piece of that pie - I tend to pay only brief attention to MILCs - but at least they're competing decently there. Decent enough that the public's perception of Olympus is positive. No Oly user I know these days would ever mention Oly alongside Nikon, but maybe that's a success in their way?

Whereas when it came to Pentax, there's a lot of negativity surrounding it. Mainly I think because it's very much a David vs Goliaths scene.
Olympus E-5 and E-3 are 4/3 sensor dslr systems, not in competition with Canikon, but rather with Panasonic. Pentax on the other hand is competing with SonCanikon.

02-15-2013, 04:57 PM - 1 Like   #20
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The problem is that sure, historically Olympus has been competing with Panasonic, but both of them are competing for shares of the bigger pie from Nikon/Canon, and perhaps to a lesser degree Pentax (simply because Pentax has less users). With the OM-D they've gotten image quality up with the aps-c sensor class of cameras (though Pentax still seems to kill them all). I would say that while they are trying to be top dog in the mirrorless sector (and in Japan they are), they are also trying to pull peeps from CaNikon who are tired of lugging around all that gear, especially the non-pro sector who really don't need FF cams and massive lenses.

Re: Olympus still dedicated to dslr market... heh well who knows. In my humble opinion, that seems like a way to simply draw out the slow death of their 4/3 cameras just to keep the 4/3 shooters on the hook until they can release a more pro-oriented OM-D that has phase detect on-sensor so they can properly utilize their lenses. But I could be wrong.

I do think it's funny if you go to camerasize.com and do a comparison of the E-5 and the K-5 II, the size difference is ridiculous. And with the Oly using a smaller sensor it's almost a joke. I feel like Oly got confused (and confused people in general) when they released a large camera with a smaller sensor with lenses that cost more than Nikkor or Canon L.
I think that regardless of what happens with them releasing another dslr or not, they realize their future (whatever that may be) is entrenched in m43. And I don't think that's such a bad thing; the OM-D is an extremely capable camera, fun to use, and VERY easy to travel with (even with a bevy of lenses).
But as more and more companies make headway in the mirrorless realm, look out. How many people these days, I'm talking consumers who really don't know one camera from the next, are going to walk into a store that sells Canon, Nikon and Olympus mirrorless cameras, and opt for the Olympus?
I wish Oly all the best, I really do, but they've got an uphill battle. Who knows, it's driven them to be more creative in some ways--their IBIS is pretty incredible--so it could just mean they carve out a niche for themselves and keep on keepin' on.
Panasonic will stay alive as long as it keeps producing cameras that create better video than most video cameras, and perhaps that will in turn help keep m43 afloat. As bad as it seems financially for them both, they have a lot going for them.

At any rate, I'll shut up now.

Enjoying reading everyone's comments; I'm glad I'm a member here now, you all seem like a good group of people.

Cheers.
02-15-2013, 06:57 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Your K20D has way more computing power than the early Space Shuttle computers...it was designed in 1972 after all...
That really was my point in the first place, you know. (Honestly, I think he has more computing power than my last two *desktops,* don't you know. My friends wonder why I can't beam them photos instantly. I'm still dubious about autofocus. Calibrate the damn screen. My eyesight's better. I'm actually carrying five pounds of 'obsolete' film gear around cause it's actually faster for me to focus manually with an old screen than try to tell electronics what to do, as long as I can *see.* I could instead just carry a Pentax mount film camera that's lighter than most *cheeseburgers I'd make you if you came by for dinner, but for some reason I just don't.
)

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 02-15-2013 at 07:05 PM.
02-15-2013, 07:11 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by zdwagner Quote
The problem is that sure, historically Olympus has been competing with Panasonic, .
No, they aren't. They've been *cooperating* since before micro-4/3rds was the only way out of 4/3rds.

Honestly, the way Panny handles color is sort of a big thing for me. Digital in general is to me the 'medium where you can turn the color on' sometimes. I don't think I exaggerate overmuch to say that Panny actually brought some color results I hadn't seen since an old verson of Ektachrome 64P was discontinued. Very nice. Doesn't mean the same thing as 'building a system' never mind 'competing.'
02-15-2013, 07:28 PM   #23
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The m43 format is the perfect size for small interchangeable lens cameras. Larger formats that try to be "small" are a joke (e.g. NEX and EOS M with their gigantic lenses). Smaller formats that try to be "big" are even funnier (e.g. Nikon 1 and Pentax Q). m43 has hit the sweet spot if you ask me. You will rarely find a Canikon user that uses a different brand for backup but m43 has always been a very good option for those times that a bulky camera is impractical but you don't want to sacrifice output quality.

02-15-2013, 09:10 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by tjk911 Quote
How did Olympus get away with moving to the 4/3 and m4/3 market? I remember faintly that Olympus shooters were clamoring for FF as well, but they transitioned to m4/3 and 4/3 fine.
Because Olympus had produced half frame cameras even in the film era - the Olympus Pen. So they weren't strangers to a smaller format and a lot of people liked those Pen cameras.

They also introduced the first compact SLR system with the Olympus OM, which I expect inspired Pentax to produce the MX after a few years.

So Olympus had a history of introducing special products and gaining market share.

In digital era they went for a mix of these two technologies - an SLR with a 4:3 aspect ratio which was larger than the half frame Pen format. That didn't work as they expected, but they still acquired more market share than Pentax had. MFT worked better for them because they finally delivered on the promise of a small size competent system - it also helped that sensor technology had improved in these past years and the difference between MFT and APS-C no longer matters for any practical purpose.
02-15-2013, 09:11 PM   #25
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Oh, and they kept many of their shooters around for another simple reason - the quality of their lenses. In this, they are very similar to Pentax.
02-15-2013, 11:57 PM   #26
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The lenses are good, but not that good. They are way overrated by the obsessed fans that eventually, and predictably, were burned. It was interesting to see people buying SHG lenses in late 2010/early 2011, somehow thinking it was a good investment. These lenses were horrifically overpriced, but with good optical quality. However, the optical quality was not in line with the price, nor with the limitations of the entire system together. Yes, the entire system was very limited.
02-16-2013, 02:44 AM   #27
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I think Pentax's system is far superior to what Oly had in 4/3 and what they now have in micro 4/3, even if you include the lenses also available from Panasonic and others. They promised smaller cameras - good. They promised smaller lenses - good. But people assumed that these would come along with smaller prices, and that hasn't even started to happen until the last 12 months or so. Now Samsung and Sony make cameras that are just as small, just as capable and don't cost any more. 4/3 pro users have been left in the lurch with virtually no new gear available and lenses that, while stellar performers they may be, cost more than their full frame equivalents.

Oly are finally playing to the main strength of their format - size - producing small primes that perform very well. This is exactly what Pentax has done with APS-C, and I think Oly (and Panasonic too) if they want to make headway need to gear up the production of these small lenses and vastly increase the choice available to people.

Pentax has a better APS-C lens lineup than any other company, despite the gaps. They may get back to the 35mm-sized format some day, but people moaning about not having FF does not lessen the fact that Pentax's APS-C lineup is the best around. Having said that, there hasn't been a new DA ltd for several years and they appear to be stuck, producing only dodgy zooms and cheap plastic primes. It's time for Pentax to also get back to it's strengths.

Last edited by Jonathan Mac; 02-16-2013 at 02:50 AM.
02-16-2013, 07:54 AM   #28
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You might prefer Olympus but that doesn't mean they're doing well.

Olympus has been rocked by corporate scandal at very high level.
They are financially troubled. Some reports say they are seeking a buyer.
I have heard Sony mentioned - another troubled company...

Chris
02-16-2013, 07:59 AM   #29
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Sony has already partnered with Olympus.
02-16-2013, 08:34 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by tjk911 Quote
35-100 f2 anyone?
I'd rather have the Pentax 50-135/2.8

Oly F2 zooms are silly money versus APS F2.8 or FF F4.

If you never need shallow DOF, by all means buy M4/3. If you sometimes do, and then need to shell out larger amounts of money to achieve the same thing that larger sensors can, then you're probably barking up the wrong tree.
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