Pentax monochrome or Leica way

mdodrill · 03-28-2013, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

...You think it would be more expensive because it's oh so difficult to undercut Leica???

I was thinking the same thing. I don't expect Pentax to build it...even thought I would like it.....but it sure would be very easy to sell it way under the Leica price

i83N · 03-28-2013, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by boriscleto

Then you would be wrong.

Big part of Leica camera price is brand name. M8 was really mediocre camera.

RonHendriks1966 · 03-28-2013, 01:31 PM - **1 Like**

I think this would make a great camera, but waiting for a 24 megapixel K-3 Monochrome (aps-c) would make the best out off it. The biggest advantage over Leica would probably also being AF.

Dean Bradshaw · 03-28-2013, 03:34 PM

I wouldn't have thought that there would be anything to make a monochrome digital inheritantly more expensive?
Economies of scale would play their part, but I wouldn't think that it could be 6 times the price of a standard K-5iis?
Cheers
Dean

**boriscleto** · 03-28-2013, 04:01 PM

Who's going to make the sensor for this camera? Who's going to make the high-resolution monochrome LCD? These are going to be boutique items just like the parts on the Leica.

vonBaloney · 03-28-2013, 04:14 PM

The Sigmas with the Foveon sensor ought to be pretty good in b&w, eh?

i83N · 03-28-2013, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

Who's going to make the sensor for this camera? Who's going to make the high-resolution monochrome LCD? These are going to be boutique items just like the parts on the Leica.

Foxconn will (((((:
On the other hand, it can be disened by Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, etc.

ChristianPoulton · 03-28-2013, 11:55 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by boriscleto

Who's going to make the sensor for this camera? Who's going to make the high-resolution monochrome LCD? These are going to be boutique items just like the parts on the Leica.

The sensor would be exactly the same as in other models (K5ii?) but with the bayer filter removed - most sensors only 'see' in B&W in any case. As for the rear LCD, again, use a standard one but don't send any colour data to it.

There is no real reason that a K5ii-M could not be built very cheaply with little overhead cost - the most difficult bit would only be rewriting the software.....

Now, whether there is a market for this 'specialist ' camera is another thing - personally I believe there would be enough sales to justify a limited run, sold at a premium to cover additional build and software costs, plus it would certainly grab Pentax some headlines and publicity!

RonHendriks1966 · 03-29-2013, 03:24 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ChristianPoulton

There is no real reason that a K5ii-M could not be built very cheaply with little overhead cost - the most difficult bit would only be rewriting the software.....

Well firmware probably is costly for a small productionunit. But i see a nice future:

All based on a new 24 megapixel aps-c sensor:

K-3
K-3s
K-3s Limited Silver Edition
K-3s Monochrome
K-3s Infra Red

there you have 5 new camera's.

i83N · 03-29-2013, 03:27 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Well firmware probably is costly for a small productionunit. But i see a nice future:

All based on a new 24 megapixel aps-c sensor:

K-3
K-3s
K-3s Limited Silver Edition
K-3s Monochrome
K-3s Infra Red

there you have 5 new camera's.

Not bad i would say (:

Clavius · 03-29-2013, 03:53 AM

Originally posted by ChristianPoulton

Now, whether there is a market for this 'specialist ' camera is another thing - personally I believe there would be enough sales to justify a limited run, sold at a premium to cover additional build and software costs, plus it would certainly grab Pentax some headlines and publicity!

It would be quite brilliant actually. It's publicity for which they even get some money in return.

But is it just software that needs to be altered? For example: the K5IIs already lacks a bayer filter, would it only need different software to read out the sensor differently? Because then a truly fantastic next step could be to just have this option incorporated in a system menu.

mdodrill · 03-29-2013, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Well firmware probably is costly for a small productionunit. But i see a nice future:

All based on a new 24 megapixel aps-c sensor:

K-3
K-3s
K-3s Limited Silver Edition
K-3s Monochrome
K-3s Infra Red

there you have 5 new camera's.

I like the way you are thinking

But is it just software that needs to be altered? For example: the K5IIs already lacks a bayer filter, would it only need different software to read out the sensor differently? Because then a truly fantastic next step could be to just have this option incorporated in a system menu.

I have the same question?

audiobomber · 03-29-2013, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

For example: the K5IIs already lacks a bayer filter

Originally posted by mdodrill

For example: the K5IIs already lacks a bayer filter

The K-5 IIs has a Bayer filter, which is needed to decode colour, but eats up about a stop of light. The K-5 IIs lacks an anti-aliasing filter, which is a blur filter, intended to prevent moiré. The more pixels you have, the lower the likelihood you will see moiré, therefore the need for an AA filter decreases.

Clavius · 03-29-2013, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

The K-5 IIs has a Bayer filter, which is needed to decode colour, but eats up about a stop of light. The K-5 IIs lacks an anti-aliasing filter, which is a blur filter, intended to prevent moiré. The more pixels you have, the lower the likelihood you will see moiré, therefore the need for an AA filter decreases.

Thanks for explaining! I always get those mixed up.

ChristianPoulton · 03-29-2013, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

It would be quite brilliant actually. It's publicity for which they even get some money in return.

But is it just software that needs to be altered? For example: the K5IIs already lacks a bayer filter, would it only need different software to read out the sensor differently? Because then a truly fantastic next step could be to just have this option incorporated in a system menu.

The K5iis still has a bayer filter, it does not however have a low-pass or anti-aliasing filter in front of the sensor.

03-29-2013, 03:24 AM - 1 Like	#39
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by ChristianPoulton There is no real reason that a K5ii-M could not be built very cheaply with little overhead cost - the most difficult bit would only be rewriting the software..... Well firmware probably is costly for a small productionunit. But i see a nice future: All based on a new 24 megapixel aps-c sensor: K-3 K-3s K-3s Limited Silver Edition K-3s Monochrome K-3s Infra Red there you have 5 new camera's.

03-29-2013, 03:27 AM	#40
i83N Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,203 Original Poster	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Well firmware probably is costly for a small productionunit. But i see a nice future: All based on a new 24 megapixel aps-c sensor: K-3 K-3s K-3s Limited Silver Edition K-3s Monochrome K-3s Infra Red there you have 5 new camera's. Not bad i would say (:

03-29-2013, 06:20 AM	#42
mdodrill Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 231	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Well firmware probably is costly for a small productionunit. But i see a nice future: All based on a new 24 megapixel aps-c sensor: K-3 K-3s K-3s Limited Silver Edition K-3s Monochrome K-3s Infra Red there you have 5 new camera's. I like the way you are thinking But is it just software that needs to be altered? For example: the K5IIs already lacks a bayer filter, would it only need different software to read out the sensor differently? Because then a truly fantastic next step could be to just have this option incorporated in a system menu. I have the same question?

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03-28-2013, 11:24 AM	#31
mdodrill Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 231	Originally posted by Clavius ...You think it would be more expensive because it's oh so difficult to undercut Leica??? I was thinking the same thing. I don't expect Pentax to build it...even thought I would like it.....but it sure would be very easy to sell it way under the Leica price

03-28-2013, 11:32 AM	#32
i83N Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,203 Original Poster	Originally posted by boriscleto Then you would be wrong. Big part of Leica camera price is brand name. M8 was really mediocre camera.

03-28-2013, 01:31 PM - 1 Like	#33
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	I think this would make a great camera, but waiting for a 24 megapixel K-3 Monochrome (aps-c) would make the best out off it. The biggest advantage over Leica would probably also being AF.

03-28-2013, 03:34 PM	#34
Dean Bradshaw Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 322	I wouldn't have thought that there would be anything to make a monochrome digital inheritantly more expensive? Economies of scale would play their part, but I wouldn't think that it could be 6 times the price of a standard K-5iis? Cheers Dean

03-28-2013, 04:01 PM	#35
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Who's going to make the sensor for this camera? Who's going to make the high-resolution monochrome LCD? These are going to be boutique items just like the parts on the Leica.

03-28-2013, 04:14 PM	#36
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	The Sigmas with the Foveon sensor ought to be pretty good in b&w, eh?

03-28-2013, 11:24 PM	#37
i83N Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,203 Original Poster	Originally posted by boriscleto Who's going to make the sensor for this camera? Who's going to make the high-resolution monochrome LCD? These are going to be boutique items just like the parts on the Leica. Foxconn will (((((: On the other hand, it can be disened by Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, etc.

03-28-2013, 11:55 PM - 1 Like	#38
ChristianPoulton New Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: London Posts: 15	Originally posted by boriscleto Who's going to make the sensor for this camera? Who's going to make the high-resolution monochrome LCD? These are going to be boutique items just like the parts on the Leica. The sensor would be exactly the same as in other models (K5ii?) but with the bayer filter removed - most sensors only 'see' in B&W in any case. As for the rear LCD, again, use a standard one but don't send any colour data to it. There is no real reason that a K5ii-M could not be built very cheaply with little overhead cost - the most difficult bit would only be rewriting the software..... Now, whether there is a market for this 'specialist ' camera is another thing - personally I believe there would be enough sales to justify a limited run, sold at a premium to cover additional build and software costs, plus it would certainly grab Pentax some headlines and publicity!

03-29-2013, 03:53 AM	#41
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by ChristianPoulton Now, whether there is a market for this 'specialist ' camera is another thing - personally I believe there would be enough sales to justify a limited run, sold at a premium to cover additional build and software costs, plus it would certainly grab Pentax some headlines and publicity! It would be quite brilliant actually. It's publicity for which they even get some money in return. But is it just software that needs to be altered? For example: the K5IIs already lacks a bayer filter, would it only need different software to read out the sensor differently? Because then a truly fantastic next step could be to just have this option incorporated in a system menu.

03-29-2013, 07:03 AM	#43
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by Clavius For example: the K5IIs already lacks a bayer filter Originally posted by mdodrill For example: the K5IIs already lacks a bayer filter The K-5 IIs has a Bayer filter, which is needed to decode colour, but eats up about a stop of light. The K-5 IIs lacks an anti-aliasing filter, which is a blur filter, intended to prevent moiré. The more pixels you have, the lower the likelihood you will see moiré, therefore the need for an AA filter decreases.

03-29-2013, 07:11 AM	#44
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by audiobomber The K-5 IIs has a Bayer filter, which is needed to decode colour, but eats up about a stop of light. The K-5 IIs lacks an anti-aliasing filter, which is a blur filter, intended to prevent moiré. The more pixels you have, the lower the likelihood you will see moiré, therefore the need for an AA filter decreases. Thanks for explaining! I always get those mixed up.

03-29-2013, 07:51 AM	#45
ChristianPoulton New Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: London Posts: 15	Originally posted by Clavius It would be quite brilliant actually. It's publicity for which they even get some money in return. But is it just software that needs to be altered? For example: the K5IIs already lacks a bayer filter, would it only need different software to read out the sensor differently? Because then a truly fantastic next step could be to just have this option incorporated in a system menu. The K5iis still has a bayer filter, it does not however have a low-pass or anti-aliasing filter in front of the sensor.