[Atlantis]

From my own perspective changing the mount will make me move to Nikon prolly.

I do not have bags of money to spend left and right. I can justify spending so much on lenses treating that as an investment. And with that thinking I have bought FA 77mm recently. Paid 900$ for an used one hoping it will not drop in price drasticly and I would be able to use it on FF, one day obviously.

So at the very moment pentax announces new mount prices of all full-frame compatibilies go down the drain. Meaning a loss of hell lot of $$ which I cannot afford. And I simply won't invest in any (old or new) lenses knowing that the future of the K-mount (and Pentax in general) is uncertain. So they better announce a FF soon to diminish them rummors...

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Last edited by Atlantis; 03-28-2013 at 06:20 AM.

[Mistral75]

Change mount for a wider, fully electronic one is the choice made by Contax (Kyocera) in 2000 with their N-series.

In 2005, Kyocera announced that they would no longer produce Contax cameras.

OK, the shortcomings of the Philips FTF3020-C sensor in Contax N Digital didn't help either (the very same sensor Pentax planned to use for their first, 24x36 digital camera, known as MZ-D / MR-52 / K-1).

Speaking of Contax N mount, 9 lenses, highly regarded, were brought to market by Carl Zeiss between 2000 and 2003. All had their own motor, ultrasonic or DC:

- Planar T* 50 mm f/1,4 (ultrasonic motor)
- Planar T* 85 mm f/1,4 (ultrasonic motor)
- Makro-Sonnar T* 100 mm f/2,8 (DC motor with full-time manual override)
- Tele-Apotessar T* 400 mm f/4 (3.6kg! ultrasonic motor)
- Vario-Sonnar T* 17-35 mm f/2,8 (ultrasonic motor)
- Vario-Sonnar T* 24-85 mm f/3,5-4,5 (N1 kit lens; ultrasonic motor)
- Vario-Sonnar T* 28-80 mm f/3,5-5,6 (NX -little brother of N1- kit lens; DC motor)
- Vario-Sonnar T* 70-200 mm f/3,5-4,5 (NX double-kit lens; DC motor)
- Vario-Sonnar T* 70-300 mm f/4-5,6 (ultrasonic motor).

If Pentax were to launch that many lenses of such quality over the same period of time following the launch of their 24x36 camera, I presume the Pentaxians would be for once very happy.

[Kunzite]

Again, nothing to back up your claim. How do you know that? I'm a Pentax customer, and I would love a more capable more modern mount. Why do you dictate what all Pentax customers are supposed to want?

That's called "shifting the burden of proof"; as usual in such cases, it's you who has to prove that a dramatic change makes sense, yet you fail to do so.
Who are you to dictate to all K-mount users, that they shouldn't want the continuation of their system?
You are a Pentax customer trying to move away from a Pentax mount. I am a Pentax customer wanting to stay and spend even more money. From what I know, you could very well go to Sony or whatever - right after Pentax would introduce a new mount.

You're right: What about the restrictions caused by keeping K-mount then? The knife cuts both ways.

A knife usually have a handle.
By "restriction" I assume you are talking about a constant revenue stream, right? A loyal user base who is ready to spend money on even more advanced cameras. And a mechanical aperture lever (which could probably be removed while keeping backwards compatibility).

New lenses on old bodies? Why? There's a K-mount line of lenses for APS-C. Demanding new lenses to work on old bodies is like demanding casettes with music in record stores, just because your car still happens to have a casette-deck.

So I should not be allowed to:
- buy FF lenses first, body second
- keep the K-5 as a backup camera, without needing to have two sets of lenses
- use FF lenses on my APS-C camera, because I really like that focal length.
And I am dictating things?

I'll ask you for the third time: Then what is wrong with a new, technically more advanced, mount?

Breaking the compatibility.

LOL! Sorry, I didn't know only YOU were allowed to do that.

Never happened

This is hillarious! You're the one with the mission to prevent Pentax from advancing. In every thread you end up ranting against every hint of the redundancy of bouncy, flopping mirrors.

Yeah, sure. I'm responsible for this nasty weather, too - because I said "it's cold outside" this morning.

[Kunzite]

The reason I said mirrorless might be the only area where a mount change would make sense is because it brings Nikon and Canon back down on Pentax's level (as well as that of Olympus, Sony, and Panasonic) because pretty much all the companies are using new mounts. The fact that this field is so competitive is proof that it's a market in which there's room to seriously compete with...and even beat...Canikon. However, you could be right in that if Pentax could crossover the K-mount into their mirrorless cameras, it could give them a marketing edge that other companies don't have.

That would work only if Nikon and Canon will drop their own SLR mounts, which obviously won't happen. Even then, the effect would be lowering them well below Olympus, Sony and Panasonic.

[slocant]

Moreover, K-mount is keeping Pentax from going mirrorless.

Why do you think the K-mount is holding Pentax from developing a mirrorless body?

They've already developed one: the K-01? (Disclaimer: I love it)

Eventually, the OVF is going to lose against the EVF somewhere down the line in the future. What if by then Pentax has a whole range of FF products and they're stuck with OVF because of K-mount?

Why would Pentax be stuck with optical viewfinders (OVF) because of the K-mout?

Sony's SLTs kept the Minolta A-mount and all have electronic viewfinders (EVF).

These only need a pellicle mirror to enable phase-detection autofocus. But with phase-detection capabilities baked into current sensors even that mirror could no longer be necessary.

And Sony's SLTs are available with both APS-C-sized sensors (a77 etc) and 35mm-sized sensors (a99).

Cheers,

[Zaphodmonster]

I would do what I did this morning take my Super A and K7 along with the FA 43mm ltd, FA 77mm ltd and DA 21mm.
Go out and have a hell of a time shooting out on the street.
And continue to do that untill those lenses fall apart and there are no more replacement parts/used k mount cameras to buy and use

[Zaphodmonster]

Oh yeah forgot to add .... I doubt it will come to pass.

Love and kisses

[goubejp]

Ah, so Pentax doesn't need to be better then the competition. Errr owwkeeeee....



People are willing to pay over $7000,- for such lenses. See the Noctilux. If Pentax does something like that, for a more Pentaxy price....

And how many will be sold per year ?

The third party lens support is dropping rapidly now with K-mount already. (What does that tell us, btw?) A new, more modern mount might even breathe life back into that 3rd party mount support for Pentax.

Third party support drops because expected sales volume is too narrow for Pentax lenses; most concerned lenses are high end lenses like sigma 120-300 f2.8 What will be the market for a full frame Pentax with a new mount ? Will it allow a third party to have sufficient returns on his investment, knowing that it will have to support Pentax for 2 mounts now, one for full frame, the other for APS-C ? Cause I don't imagine Pentax now dropping the K mount for APS-C camera...

Because the legacy glass will be outresolved by the sensor anyway. There is not much point in using legacy glass. They are well supported by legacy bodies.

Certainly not, the full frame does not have higher pixel density than the current APS-C; and many of the legacy lenses, including FA* family, A* family, DFA family, outresolve the sensor - if it was not the case there were no discussion at all about the moiré on the K5iis version

[grispie]

Originally posted by Clavius
I'll ask you for the third time: Then what is wrong with a new, technically more advanced, mount?
Breaking the compatibility.

+1
so hope it's not gonna happen

one thing though,
Pentax tried to retain the k-mount for mirrorless body
We all know what a success it was.

if i were a pentax manager, my question would be: "what would the market's reaction have been, if we had redesigned a new lens mount & lenses for a mirrorless route for the k01 series?" it might have meant better business...

(in a way, they did: the Q, although a bit too extreme i think)

So, in a way, i do agree with clavius, if there is enough logic...

[Clavius]

That's called "shifting the burden of proof"; as usual in such cases, it's you who has to prove that a dramatic change makes sense, yet you fail to do so.

Wrong, arguments enough: Please see post #11:

- Backwards compatibility is useless because the new sensor will outresolve the legacy lenses you so desperately want to stay compatible with.

- More cash for our beloved Pentax company, because people need to aquire the new lens lineup. Pentax so desperately needs it! I see that as an advantage.

- Posibility for faster lenses.

- Faster usually means better IQ from those lenses too. Look at stopped down 1.2 lenses, for example.

- Posibility for better, more modern mount. Think about better communication between lens and body. For example, no more front or backfocussing due to automatic calibration. (Look at the new Sigma system.) Lenses that receive firmware upgrades through the mount. Sky's the limit.

- And the possibility for the shorter registry distance, which makes so much more possible: Increased off-brand lens options, possibility to remove mirror and mirrorbox (wether you like it or not.) etc...

Who are you to dictate to all K-mount users, that they shouldn't want the continuation of their system?
You are a Pentax customer trying to move away from a Pentax mount.

1st: Newsflash: The new mount would be a Pentax mount too. Just as the Q-mount and the 645-mount are very much Pentax-mounts.

2nd: You're the only one talking about moving away. I'm not. Appearently, if Pentax markets a new mount, you're going to force everybody to stop using their K-mount lenses, or something? M42 was abandoned decades ago, and the lenses are still being put to very good use right now. Some of my favorites are M42, and they might even end up on the new Pentax FF for years to come. (Whatever mount it may have.)

By "restriction" I assume you are talking about a constant revenue stream, right? A loyal user base who is ready to spend money on even more advanced cameras.

Yes, very loyal: "Dear Pentax, keep K-mount going or I'll switch systems!!!" That would sound pretty loyal to people with the stockholm syndrome maybe, but not to the sane.

That "loyal" userbase that you speak of is not even willing to spend any money on more advanced lenses with a new mount that make Pentax even more competitive and generating more revenue for them.

And that "constant revenue stream" you are speaking of is quickly and steadily declining. How do you think Pentax has become so tiny? Not because of their past/current impressive steady revenue stream, I would think.

I myself will stick with Pentax because I'm a fanboy, new mount or not, FF or not. They make very good products. A new Pentax mount will most certainly ROCK!

So I should not be allowed to:
- buy FF lenses first, body second

? Any particular reason why you wouldn't be allowed to do that? Just asking...

- keep the K-5 as a backup camera, without needing to have two sets of lenses

A possible new Pentax FF DSLR is an entirely new camera. Something never seen before. A breakthrough. Long awaited. If it needs a new mount to make it possible, that would not be that strange or dramatic at all. An etirely new system needing entirely new accessories is not that extraordinary.

- use FF lenses on my APS-C camera, because I really like that focal length.

? Any particular reason why you wouldn't be able to do that? Won't there be some kind of adapter? There's a K to Q. A 645 to K. A M42 to K. Then why not a Pentax X to K?

Sure. I'm responsible for this nasty weather, too - because I said "it's cold outside" this morning.

That was you?! I would like to have a word about that with you then!! We were doing so well with all the global warming, and then you had to go on and mess things up...

[grispie]

A possible new Pentax FF DSLR is an entirely new camera. Something never seen before. A breakthrough. Long awaited. If it needs a new mount to make it possible, that would not be that strange or dramatic at all. An etirely new system needing entirely new accessories is not that extraordinary.

someone is on a roll here :-)
& i'd be happy to invest in some new lenses to go with the system. can't let the past hold your future forever.

[GibbyTheMole]

It's a big fat lie perpetrated by a guy with too much time on his hands. Why would FF necessitate abandoning the K mount? The K-mount was designed for 35mm film cameras and FF digital = 35mm film frame size. Just use the same mount & make FF lenses. Geez...

Not to mention, they're already set up to manufacture the K-mount. Creating & producing a new mount just to alienate their customers would cost a bunch of money and be monumentally stupid. If they want to kill Pentax, it would be cheaper, easier, and and quicker to send everyone home & blow it up.

In other news:
Ford is abandoning it's traditional wheel design in 2014 and going with an all-new square wheel design.
Fender will switch from producing electric guitars to gas models.
Apple has discontinued manufacture of the iPad and has sold the trademark to Kotex.

[grispie]

In other news:
Ford is abandoning it's traditional wheel design in 2014 and going with an all-new square wheel design.
Fender will switch from producing electric guitars to gas models.
Apple has discontinued manufacture of the iPad and has sold the trademark to Kotex.

you're stretching it...
if they had produced a thinner K01 & built new lenses around it, there might have been a K02 already.
Competition does it.

On the pro level, it would make far less sense & more difficult to sell to long time customers, i agree.
& probably it's a non existing discussion

[JPT]

The fact that a mirrorless FF camera would be different from anything else on the market would be a pretty good reason in itself. Imagine Pentax released something like the D800 that matched its Nikon rival in every spec. It still wouldn't give new customers much of a reason to choose Pentax over the more established brands. In fact, I find it hard to imagine what features they would have to add to make a traditional FF DSLR attractive to customers who are not already invested in Pentax. This forum, by its nature, is a bit of an echo chamber for people who have strong connections to K-mount, both financial and emotional. So, a DSLR would be good for many of us, but I think Pentax has bigger ambitions than retaining a relatively small core of existing customers.

A mirrorless FF, on the other hand, would be something new and something that you often hear users of other brands requesting. Actually, I have a theory that there is a race amongst a few companies to be the first to release such a camera. Sony is thought to be releasing one in 2014, Samsung too. I read that Nikon also has a wider and shorter mount in development. If this is true, it might explain why Pentax doesn't want to talk about it.

If Pentax do this, they will probably make a fully functioning adapter for K-mount, so we will be able to use our glass with little compromise. Perhaps the K-01 could be seen as a trial to perfect their CDAF technology for old lenses.

Rice High might be right, but if so, it'll be pure coincidence rather than any real inside knowledge.

[TaoMaas]

In other news:
Ford is abandoning it's traditional wheel design in 2014 and going with an all-new square wheel design.
Fender will switch from producing electric guitars to gas models.
Apple has discontinued manufacture of the iPad and has sold the trademark to Kotex.

"New Coke", anyone?