[Belnan]

I have been told that Pentax will be releasing new DSLR's featuring a new APS-C sensor that does not have 16 MP nor 24 MP. Not a lot to go on I know, I have asked this person for info in the past and they turned out to be incorrect, but I believe they were pretty strait up to the best of there knowledge. I suspect that the sensor will be the 20mp sensor in the A58 which appears to be pretty good and would like to see what Pentax can due with this sensor. I am also not sure if the upcoming K-3 (if it exists) will use this sensor or the 24MP one. I am not going to ask this source anything else since I don't really know them and I am concerned I am already being a bit obnoxious. I for one hope they are correct though...

[DeadJohn]

Another day, another rumor.

[rawr]

Paragraphs. How do they work?

Unfortunately DxOMark has no score for the Alpha 58, so it's hard to say whether it has a good or bad sensor. But I seriously doubt Pentax would opt for it, simply because of the marketing disadvantages of running a 20MP APS-C sensor while competitors like Nikon are running competent 24MP sensors.

The other option, when your contact says 'APS-C sensor that does not have 16 MP nor 24 MP', is that they may be going higher than 24MP... or going with a Foveon sensor like that in the Sigma DP2M or SD1

[Belnan]

Another day, another rumor.

Well true enough, wasn't sure if it was worth posting. I thought it was more relevant than some of the other conversations though. I really got to stop spending so much time obsessing over Pentax rumors and speculations. Anyway time will tell, I have since spent a bit of time looking at the IR comparometer A58 images and they look pretty nice.

[Belnan]

Paragraphs. How do they work?

Unfortunately DxOMark has no score for the Alpha 58, so it's hard to say whether it has a good or bad sensor. But I seriously doubt Pentax would opt for it, simply because of the marketing disadvantages of running a 20MP APS-C sensor while competitors like Nikon are running competent 24MP sensors.

The other option, when your contact says 'APS-C sensor that does not have 16 MP nor 24 MP', is that they may be going higher than 24MP... or going with a Foveon sensor like that in the Sigma DP2M or SD1

Good point. That would have never occurred to me for the same reason, poor high iso of the sigma sensors. But who the heck knows what is going on behind closed doors.

[interested_observer]

We do know that Pentax will not be developing (custom design) their own sensor, they have not in the past, they don't have the market, nor the capitalization. I doubt that they have the basic semiconductor design capability to do so either. They will go with a sensor from someone else, be it Sony, Samsung, or some other design house / FAB.

We also know that Pentax does have some demonstrated excellent talent in extracting more performance and capability from a sensor than what Sony, Nikon and Canon have been able to bring to market in the past. I doubt that they will be interested in loosing ISO range, DR, low noise or any of the other sensor capabilities that they have shown in the past just to increase MP resolution. That may be the problem. The sensor that the D7100 is using is not significantly better than the one used in the D7000, essentially just more resolution. They may be just waiting for the right sensor to become available from whomever. If that is the case the K5II and K5IIs are product extensions - designed to mark time, extend their new product development window, and thus makes a lot of sense. Who knows? Those that do are not talking.

I'll just wait until they get around to announcing something. It will happen sooner or later. Otherwise, I'll go take some pictures - as my current K5 still works just fine.....

[jeffshaddix]

Thanks for the tidbit. A 20MP sensor would be good. Do remember that in one of the many interviews, Pentax said they were looking into other forms of sensor technology to enhance detail beyond removing the AA filter (and no, I don't think they were referring to increasing MP or sensor size). Foveon is a possibility, as well as other non-bayer sensors. It'll be interesting to see where Pentax goes...

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Last edited by jeffshaddix; 04-21-2013 at 08:41 PM.

[interested_observer]

Thanks for the tidbit. A 20MP sensor would be good. Do remember that in one of the many interviews, Pentax said they were looking into other forms of sensor technology to enhance detail beyond removing the AA filter (and no, I don't think they were referring to increasing MP or sensor size). Foveon is a possibility, as well as other non-bayer sensors. It'll be interesting to see where Pentax goes...

I do remember reading that Pentax alluded to this. Personally, I do not think that Foveon has all the qualities that Pentax really needs, however it does have a number of positive qualities. I think that these positive qualities can be replicated by Pentax fairly easily, but would be somewhat difficult for either Canon or Nikon. Pentax has all the pieces available to create the same type of ultra high resolution shifted images as Hasselblad.

• Hasselblad Squeezes 200MP Images By Shaking a 50MB Sensor | Gadget Lab | Wired.com

They can shift the sensor, even rotate the sensor, taking multiple images with a 1.5 pixel shift, and then combine them together (in camera HDR processing). Thus an APS-C sensor based camera becomes the ultimate high resolution landscape camera with exceptional color accuracy. Using this approach, the K5/K5II/K5IIs/K30 could produce 64MP images in this mode, using the current 16MP sensor.

This method can also provide one additional attribute. By shifting the sensor just by a bit more than a pixel, the Bayer pattern of the photo receptors (the pixels) can align (or come close to aligning), in a fashion similar to the Foveon sensor. In this way, Pentax can maintain their Bayer based sensor with all of the positive attributes (wide ISO range, etc.), while also potentially matching the positive and desirable Foveon qualities. The downside would be the need for a tripod and the taking of 4 to 6 successive frames, back to back (in an automated fashion). For landscapers this would not be a problem at all. Of course there would be uses that this would not be possible - i.e., sports and action images. Essentially anything that moves - however this mode would not need to be active across the board.

Actually if Pentax applied this in a similar fashion as bracketing (a special case of bracketing), just take and store the 4 or 6 images (as RAW or JPG) and let post processing perform the stacking, would certainly provide a much higher quality result. Just tag the EXIF with the amount of pixel shift and direction (within each frame), and the stacking would be easy and quick.

I can see folks then wanting to do both the shifting and the bracketing so as to capture the additional dynamic range.

The only downside is that the Forum is pretty fixated on a FF sensor and a higher resolution sensor to match or exceed Nikon, and thus would probably perceive this as lagging behind, loosing even more ground to N&C.

[bossa]

An interesting concept to be sure.. and there's also the new Panasonic tech as well...

[joe.penn]

A Foveon sensor in a Pentax body with a descent frame rate would be a hugeeeeeeeee game changer. Not only that, pentax cutting a deal with sigma for the sensors would most definitely push sigma into producing their great high end glass in pentax mount.

[Kunzite]

It would be very nice, indeed - but guess what, many would complain about the lack of usable high-ISO and other Foveon characteristics (ignoring its strong points)

[reeftool]

It would be logical to assume that the next DSLR that Pentax introduces will have a new sensor. The current 16 megapixel one they are using has been around for a while. The 2 new K5 models are just slightly upgraded versions of the K5. If they roll out a new camera later this year or early next year with the same sensor, it won't go well. Not that there is anything wrong with the current sensor. That's just the way the business is.

[Clavius]

I do remember reading that Pentax alluded to this. Personally, I do not think that Foveon has all the qualities that Pentax really needs, however it does have a number of positive qualities. I think that these positive qualities can be replicated by Pentax fairly easily, but would be somewhat difficult for either Canon or Nikon. Pentax has all the pieces available to create the same type of ultra high resolution shifted images as Hasselblad.

• Hasselblad Squeezes 200MP Images By Shaking a 50MB Sensor | Gadget Lab | Wired.com

They can shift the sensor, even rotate the sensor, taking multiple images with a 1.5 pixel shift, and then combine them together (in camera HDR processing). Thus an APS-C sensor based camera becomes the ultimate high resolution landscape camera with exceptional color accuracy. Using this approach, the K5/K5II/K5IIs/K30 could produce 64MP images in this mode, using the current 16MP sensor.

This method can also provide one additional attribute. By shifting the sensor just by a bit more than a pixel, the Bayer pattern of the photo receptors (the pixels) can align (or come close to aligning), in a fashion similar to the Foveon sensor. In this way, Pentax can maintain their Bayer based sensor with all of the positive attributes (wide ISO range, etc.), while also potentially matching the positive and desirable Foveon qualities. The downside would be the need for a tripod and the taking of 4 to 6 successive frames, back to back (in an automated fashion). For landscapers this would not be a problem at all. Of course there would be uses that this would not be possible - i.e., sports and action images. Essentially anything that moves - however this mode would not need to be active across the board.

Actually if Pentax applied this in a similar fashion as bracketing (a special case of bracketing), just take and store the 4 or 6 images (as RAW or JPG) and let post processing perform the stacking, would certainly provide a much higher quality result. Just tag the EXIF with the amount of pixel shift and direction (within each frame), and the stacking would be easy and quick.

I can see folks then wanting to do both the shifting and the bracketing so as to capture the additional dynamic range.

The only downside is that the Forum is pretty fixated on a FF sensor and a higher resolution sensor to match or exceed Nikon, and thus would probably perceive this as lagging behind, loosing even more ground to N&C.

Fantastic idea!

And what about using two APS-C sensors in one body?

A Foveon sensor in a Pentax body with a descent frame rate would be a hugeeeeeeeee game changer. Not only that, pentax cutting a deal with sigma for the sensors would most definitely push sigma into producing their great high end glass in pentax mount.

That would be awesome, but why would Sigma join forces with Pentax and not a different camera company with bigger muscles?

It would be very nice, indeed - but guess what, many would complain about the lack of usable high-ISO and other Foveon characteristics (ignoring its strong points)

Why would they complain when Pentax already serves their needs in a range of other Pentax bodies? Such people complain, just to complain. Therefore, they can be ignored. Not everybody's needs can be fulfilled in one camera.

[joe.penn]

That would be awesome, but why would Sigma join forces with Pentax and not a different camera company with bigger muscles?

Well, good point, but it would be a way for Sigma to push some of the sensors out into the market. IMHO, there is no APS-C sensor out there right now (maybe even FF sensor) that produces image quality as good (or even close to it) straight out of the camera than the Foveon sensor.

[audiobomber]

IMHO, there is no APS-C sensor out there right now (maybe even FF sensor) that produces image quality as good (or even close to it) straight out of the camera than the Foveon sensor.

At base ISO. I don't see Foveon as marketable on a sufficient scale to interest Pentax.