[Ratmagiclady]

Of course, anyone who's been with Pentax more than a year ought to know you shouldn't panic at new-release prices. Never mind get indignant. The people who need and want the newest and best soonest will pay that, the rest of us wait a few months and are darn happy they're still making Limiteds with whatever coating. And know that we can still have primo glass that's been made since people were asking "Where were you when Kenedy was shot."

I mean, look at this banner below. I'm still shooting a Pentax I got in 2008. (I'd upgrade if I were in a position to, but still happy enough. ) If I were buying much of anything new, I'd have a lotta limiteds, (Could live if I could only have those, too,) cause that's why I'm here.

Someone puts the latest coatings on some of the best lenses ever made, then some will buy those, sooner, or later. Maybe the rest of us will happily buy the other versions happily. People who want that soonest support the company by buying soonest. The rest of us talk about it and wait. This is kind of how Pentaxians go. If we need the limit of what can be made, we're here for a reason that means we're still around.

Kind of why I'm behind those sincere about wanting full-frame. They don't want 'Full Frame to compete with Canon at 18 frames a second,' they just want the image quality and top-notch finder.

A lot of people come and whine why Pentax isn't Nikon or Canon. If I had the money to buy either, I wouldn't whine. Just pick my tools.

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Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 09-02-2013 at 02:47 PM.

[Clavius]

Oh, I wish they would, rather than whine about it. Companies raise their prices when they can, lower them when they have to. People buy if the price is right. It's how it's supposed to be. It's called market economy.

You vote with your money. Great! I wish more would if they really believe they get more elsewhere. If they don't, well, stop whining.

Just to play devils advocate again: It would be a lot easier to vote with your money if you weren't locked into a system. Market economy doesn't work when you only get to choose your gear supplier once. If you got two camera bodies and say 15 lenses, then the hassle and cost of switching systems becomes a huge big barrier. Selling everything to stinghy Pentaxians and replacing everything again with a different system is enough to make you chose another hobby or risk a divorce.

It would only adhere to the rules of the free market economy if we could take our lenses and mount them on different camera makers bodies without losing any functionality.

I added another system, stopped updating my Pentax gear and chose to write my Pentax gear off as a loss. I nutered my FA limiteds so they work on my Canon. And my four year old daughter plays with my K-5. The K-5IIs and the DA limiteds still see some action now and then. But most other users are much more financially responsible/sane that I am, and they do the responsible thing and obviously choose not to switch. At that point whining is the only way to vent the frustrations and system-choice regrets. And then they are told to "go out and shoot more".

My point is: the whiners do have a point.

[Rondec]

I think forumites want (a) to see that Ricoh is investing in the brand and in the SLR camera line and (b) to do it in a way that pleases them. Under Hoya (which apparently now are the good old days), Pentax raised prices dramatically, ceased working on anything new, except for sealing a few older lenses and then charging more for them and released a couple of decent cameras that had some QA issues. Until I see a clear direction from Ricoh, I will hold my fire and just be glad that they are investing in the brand. If at some point Pentax goes away, I guess I can still shoot my lenses on a NEX or something equivalent, so all is not lost.

[normhead]

I'll see you point and raise you a point....

No company is guaranteed a place in the world. The fact that Pentax has been sold twice in the last 5 years is a message in itself. There is simply no point in whining about it. Take it on the chin and move on. For a lot of whiners, they are in denial thinking there is still some kind of a choice. Odds are Pentax is not Apple. There is no Steve Jobs waiting to come back and raise the company from it's ashes. You can either be happy with the Pentax you have or leave, those are two good choices, whining accomplishes nothing. It doesn't change the circumstance Pentax seems locked into over at Pentax headquarters. Ricoh used to have an SLR division years ago. It's not like they were successful. What Pentax was doing didn't work, and Ricoh has already lost an SLR division once, so I'm not sure what they are doing thinking they'll be successful this time. It's quite possible they will be as delusional as the whiners. Those are pretty much the facts of the day.

Whining changes none of that. If Pentax has what you want....it's a good system for you. If it doesn't, switch to something that does. It's as simple as that. The fact that you made a bad decision when you bought Pentax gear doesn't mean the rest of us need to hear about it ad infinitum. There is more bad information posted by whiners as any other source. They just don't have a very balanced perspective.

Some suggestions for whiners..

Don't buy anything you can't replace, life happens , no matter what you do, your camera and lens may get smashed onto the ground when you fall tomorrow. Have a plan.

When you buy a piece of equipment, buy it for what it is, not for what it might be.

Don't look at Nikon or Canon and expect Pentax to compete with the. Pentax has 1/8 the market share, and will probably release one eight the new products. Smaller means less.

Don't expect niche equipment from Pentax... they have the limited on small APS-c bodies, that's their niche, stop expecting them to be something different.

You can never completely avoid disappointment... but buying Pentax and then expecting them to compete with Canon and Nikon.. that hasn't happened for 30 years, it's probably not going to happen again.

The old adage, simpler is better still holds true. Every time you get a new feature, be it auto-focus, in a lens or whatever, there are more parts to fail and more likelihood they will fail. When you buy an SDM accept, sooner or later that motor is going to go. Hope it's later. If it's sooner, tough luck, but it's not like it's not predicable. All electric motors eventually fail. All of them, 100%. The only question is when.

Don't wait for people like me to listen to your whining and tell you you've made a mistake buying Pentax gear, or you've simply grown out of it.... figure it out on your own, do something about it, move on.

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Last edited by normhead; 09-03-2013 at 06:36 AM.

[Uluru]

I
Some suggestions for whiners..

I'll suggest one correction — no one is a whiner. The story of Pentax is peculiar one, quite uncommon, and it is unfinished, left in mid-air few years ago and now the sequel will reveal what has happened.

Thus it is unfair to call some people whiners, because many of them would like to see a resolution — at least at some points. They do have a right to know — it is our natural right and urge to seek knowledge. They are passionate, supportive too, and they do care. I'd say that those silent types, who selfishly calculate, pack things and go upon the first sign of trouble, are the worst kind — pure and simple opportunists.

[Rondec]

I'll suggest one correction — no one is a whiner. The story of Pentax is peculiar one, quite uncommon, and it is unfinished, left in mid-air few years ago and now the sequel will reveal what has happened.

Thus it is unfair to call some people whiners, because many of them would like to see a resolution — at least at some points. They do have a right to know — it is our natural right and urge to seek knowledge. They are passionate, supportive too, and they do care. I'd say that those silent types, who selfishly calculate, pack things and go upon the first sign of trouble, are the worst kind — pure and simple opportunists.

When you say peculiar, do you mean that in most cases a company like Pentax would have just gone out of business, rather being taken over and split up? I think of Konica/Minolta, Contax and Kodak as plenty of cases where the original company (at least the photography arm) just crashed and burned.

[Clavius]

I think forumites want (a) to see that Ricoh is investing in the brand and in the SLR camera line and (b) to do it in a way that pleases them. Under Hoya (which apparently now are the good old days), Pentax raised prices dramatically, ceased working on anything new, except for sealing a few older lenses and then charging more for them and released a couple of decent cameras that had some QA issues. Until I see a clear direction from Ricoh, I will hold my fire and just be glad that they are investing in the brand. If at some point Pentax goes away, I guess I can still shoot my lenses on a NEX or something equivalent, so all is not lost.

At least "Pentax" was still some sort of separate entity under Hoya. Their own offices, own manufacturing plants, own website, R&D, etc. It only got degraded to a mere product line recently with their new masters.

Imagine Volkswagen deciding their Porsche product line no longer requires it's own sales units and garages, but Porsche customers need to buy and service at Volkswagen from now on.

[Uluru]

When you say peculiar, do you mean that in most cases a company like Pentax would have just gone out of business, rather being taken over and split up? I think of Konica/Minolta, Contax and Kodak as plenty of cases where the original company (at least the photography arm) just crashed and burned.

I don't know the right answer, but Pentax cannot be classified easily. It defies the odds. Even Canon and Nikon and other brand users respect it, and I think half openly cheer for it. Many want to see Pentax brand coming back again, bringing some fresh air into the photography industry.

[Kunzite]

At least "Pentax" was still some sort of separate entity under Hoya. Their own offices, own manufacturing plants, own website, R&D, etc. It only got degraded to a mere product line recently with their new masters.

An illusion, as they were under Hoya's control. Cost cutting, including in the R&D. Protecting margins at the expense of market share. A decline in the number of high grade lenses - 5 in 2008 (pre-takeover projects, at least some of them), 1 in 2009, only regular lenses in 2010, no DSLR product in 2011. Projects which could not bring quick money, scrapped (the TC and the long lens). And, the worst thing of all, a hostile takeover with the intention of splitting Image Business ("our" Pentax) and selling it away.
But please, tell me more about how Ricoh is bad because they named a company they own "Ricoh Imaging" and not "Pentax"

[monochrome]

Boriscleto. On the basis of this post being the marginal application of force.

[Rondec]

An illusion, as they were under Hoya's control. Cost cutting, including in the R&D. Protecting margins at the expense of market share. A decline in the number of high grade lenses - 5 in 2008 (pre-takeover projects, at least some of them), 1 in 2009, only regular lenses in 2010, no DSLR product in 2011. Projects which could not bring quick money, scrapped (the TC and the long lens). And, the worst thing of all, a hostile takeover with the intention of splitting Image Business ("our" Pentax) and selling it away.
But please, tell me more about how Ricoh is bad because they named a company they own "Ricoh Imaging" and not "Pentax"

Absolutely. At best, Hoya was a caretaker, giving just enough to keep Pentaxians on the hook, but apparently the whole time shopping the camera division to whoever would buy it. And who could blame them? Pentax completely mis-played the digital camera age and ended up bleeding money and users. Still, I don't view much that Hoya did as worthwhile. The best thing to come out of them was the K5 and even then, the best thing about it was the fact that they actually got a cutting edge sensor from Sony (for once).

[Jonathan Mac]

I applaud the OP, though I won't be laughing the next time I want to buy a new lens and have only third parties to choose from because the prices have been massively increased by Pentax.

I thought that I was the only non-crazy one who realised that price increases are bad for the consumer, which for the un-initiated, is also part of market economics.

I personally find it little short of appauling that this website chose to post such a frankly ridiculous article on it's front page. If price increases are good then Pentax should triple all it's lens and camera prices, and surely we'll wake up in a day's time and find CaNikon have gone bust. And then Pentax can triple their prices again.

[monochrome]

The appalling thing is the way Hoya allowed / forced Pentax America under the prior administration to debase the brand to a Dollar Store also-ran. The market strategy is not to offer value based on price but on features, ergonomics, quality, innovative and different technology (IBIS, WR) size and IQ.

If we have to pay higher dollars to receive those qualities, so be it. If we don't want to pay those prices for any value set, find something else.

Ricoh is not ruining the brand. Ricoh is rescuing the brand.

[Uluru]

I applaud the OP, though I won't be laughing the next time I want to buy a new lens and have only third parties to choose from because the prices have been massively increased by Pentax.

I thought that I was the only non-crazy one who realised that price increases are bad for the consumer, which for the un-initiated, is also part of market economics.

I personally find it little short of appauling that this website chose to post such a frankly ridiculous article on it's front page. If price increases are good then Pentax should triple all it's lens and camera prices, and surely we'll wake up in a day's time and find CaNikon have gone bust. And then Pentax can triple their prices again.

Please note that I wrote the joke as a response to the article on the home page, not as a comment to price rises per se. Ricoh may increase or decrease the prices as they find it suitable, but I was amused by the human comedy side of it; an online forum equivalent of taking a street photograph and memorising a moment of awkwardness of human life.

At least Pentax Forums allows both to be read ... although I sincerely doubt that anything like the original post above will be on the front cover

[jamarley]

Wow, it's starting to sound like Annie Hall in here - two elderly women are at a Catskill mountain resort, and one of 'em says, "Boy, the food at this place is really terrible." The other one says, "Yeah, I know; and such small portions." For those of you too young to know, it was a Woodie Allen movie from the dark ages, 1977 to be exact. Funny how human complaints are so enduring.

And my father-in-law, back in those days, at the grocery store would pick up a can of peas or corn or something similar, scoff at the price and say "When I was your age these were a nickel and a loaf of bread was fifteen cents!" His kids, including my wife, would laughingly remind him what he was earning at that time. Tranquility would return for a while, at least until the next shopping trip.