I have an ethical problem with Pentax AIV lenses

LFLee · 09-18-2013, 10:32 AM

Hm..... do you concern about whaling that exist in Japan ? google it?
You might stop using camera as well...

scratchpaddy · 09-18-2013, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by LFLee

You might stop using camera as well...

I thought my camera was made in the Philippines. Is there something we should collectively punish everyone in that country for, as well?

**monochrome** · 09-18-2013, 10:59 AM

The problem with making ethical decisions is you have to make ethical decisions.

Whether your ethical decision is meaningful in terms of greater effect on the world or the outcome isn't really relevant. The only action open to you - the only choice on your plate is your choice. Make your choice for your reasons. Hard as it may be, live with the compromise of having made that choice. Don't complain; don't explain; don't exclaim - just choose. Just act.

The problem with making ethical decisions is you have to make ethical decisions.

normhead · 09-18-2013, 11:17 AM

I'll boycott anybody for good cause. Kraft used to be the head of the list. Boycotting a whole country because of thier poachers would be excessive. One of the biggest cause of poaching in Canada is Chinese medicine's prescription of bear bladder in some cures. So are you going to boycott Canada? the poachers are Canadians, to the Chinese, the buyers are Chinese .

How far is this going to go? I can probably find a reason to boycott every fortune 500 company. But I have other considerations. One of the biggest atrocities ever committed was the killing of millions of Vietnamese during the Vietnam war. So looking at the karmic balance sheet maybe you should be buying only Vietnamese product.

nosliwmit · 09-18-2013, 11:33 AM

Well, I think the OP has a perfectly valid point that is worthy of intelligent discussion. While the purchase of a camera or a couple of lenses may offer very little in the way of leverage in the grand scheme of things, why shouldn't we think about where our money goes and who it supports? I think it would be fantastic if we could all take into account a company's environmental stewardship, labor practices, adherence to intellectual property laws etc. when we make purchasing decisions (though we have to be careful not to paint with too broad a brush as has been rightly noted in numerous responses). If photography equipment expenditures account for a significant part of our disposable income then it's where we're most in a position to apply what little leverage we have. I salute the OP for thinking about this and starting this discussion. It's too bad there aren't easy answers.

LFLee · 09-18-2013, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by scratchpaddy

I thought my camera was made in the Philippines. Is there something we should collectively punish everyone in that country for, as well?

probably! like they cut down rain forest....

chill.

mikeSF · 09-18-2013, 11:48 AM

If misdeeds of the citizens had any influence on my buying habits, I would have stopped buying USA-made products years ago.
Your dilemma seems like utter nonsense to me.

derelict · 09-18-2013, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by LaurenOE

Chic-Fil-A

More for me!

OP, you should also boycott things made in China for their human rights violations. Not to mention their environmental violations. Oh wait, you cannot do that and have all the basics. Boycotting Vietnamese made things will do absolutely nothing. Boycotts do nothing on an individual basis.

normhead · 09-18-2013, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by derelict

More for me!

OP, you should also boycott things made in China for their human rights violations. Not to mention their environmental violations. Oh wait, you cannot do that and have all the basics. Boycotting Vietnamese made things will do absolutely nothing. Boycotts do nothing on an individual basis.

My boycott of Kraft hasn't even brought a letter of acknowledgement. Oh wait, I forgot to tell them I was boycotting them... but, come on, they should have noticed... I mean my business was worth at least 50 pounds of cheese a year...my boycott cost them at least $50 off their bottom line. The shock was when I found out they had stopped the practice I was boycotting them for, no one told me... I missed out on Kraft cheese slices fo years for no reason. These boycotts are so complicated. I feel like now I should buy Kraft product (whenever it's on sale, I won't pay more than a penny a gram for cheese, my own personal boycott of sorts.) After all, I deprived them of their profits for at least 5 years and gave them to other cheese companies.. I feel so guilty.

Parallax · 09-18-2013, 12:55 PM

If we're going to boycott based on crimes against humanity then we have to put Hong Kong up near the top of the list for giving us William Hung

You Tube

IchabodCrane · 09-18-2013, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by Parallax

If we're going to boycott based on crimes against humanity then we have to put Hong Kong up near the top of the list for giving us William Hung

William Hung Original American Idol Auditon - YouTube

I was thinking of throwing my Samsung plasma TV in the dumpster because of Psy's Gangnam Style video.

Seriously, if Pentax in any tangible way was connected to or knowingly using products from rhino poaching.... I would not buy their gear. I've seen nothing suggesting they are.

normhead · 09-18-2013, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by Parallax

If we're going to boycott based on crimes against humanity then we have to put Hong Kong up near the top of the list for giving us William Hung

William Hung Original American Idol Auditon - YouTube

I realized long ago, if you start boycotting everyone who deserves it, you're not going to buy anything from anybody, except maybe the Amish, and they're practically a cult so I'd have to boycott them eventually.

**dms** · 09-18-2013, 01:32 PM

If you feel this strongly email Pentax your views and refuse to buy/use lenses made in Vietnam. While Pentax has no strong clout to negotiate anything w/ Vietnam government, and your stance is a drop in the ocean, I don't see where you have another choice. There are lots of Pentax lenses available that aren't made there. To do otherwise would be in conflict with your moral stand. Only you can decide where and when to "draw the line."

tabl10s · 09-18-2013, 01:35 PM

Give it up as it'll get you nowhere.

Germany and Japan were once allies 70 years ago(no camera for you).

Italy was bad too and gave us the Mafia(no $10k 11-speed bikes/Ferrari's or Bugatti's for you).

The United States allowed Slavery...

aurele · 09-18-2013, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by normhead

I realized long ago, if you start boycotting everyone who deserves it, you're not going to buy anything from anybody, except maybe the Amish, and they're practically a cult so I'd have to boycott them eventually.

You've sum up the point, but better than other : it was funnier

09-18-2013, 10:38 AM	#17
scratchpaddy Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Phoenix Posts: 3,361	Originally posted by LFLee You might stop using camera as well... I thought my camera was made in the Philippines. Is there something we should collectively punish everyone in that country for, as well? Last edited by scratchpaddy; 09-18-2013 at 10:45 AM.

09-18-2013, 10:59 AM	#18
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	The problem with making ethical decisions is you have to make ethical decisions. Whether your ethical decision is meaningful in terms of greater effect on the world or the outcome isn't really relevant. The only action open to you - the only choice on your plate is your choice. Make your choice for your reasons. Hard as it may be, live with the compromise of having made that choice. Don't complain; don't explain; don't exclaim - just choose. Just act. The problem with making ethical decisions is you have to make ethical decisions. Last edited by monochrome; 09-18-2013 at 12:13 PM.

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09-18-2013, 10:32 AM	#16
LFLee Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Southern California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,292	Hm..... do you concern about whaling that exist in Japan ? google it? You might stop using camera as well...

09-18-2013, 11:17 AM	#19
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	I'll boycott anybody for good cause. Kraft used to be the head of the list. Boycotting a whole country because of thier poachers would be excessive. One of the biggest cause of poaching in Canada is Chinese medicine's prescription of bear bladder in some cures. So are you going to boycott Canada? the poachers are Canadians, to the Chinese, the buyers are Chinese . How far is this going to go? I can probably find a reason to boycott every fortune 500 company. But I have other considerations. One of the biggest atrocities ever committed was the killing of millions of Vietnamese during the Vietnam war. So looking at the karmic balance sheet maybe you should be buying only Vietnamese product.

09-18-2013, 11:33 AM	#20
nosliwmit Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Pacific Northwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 913	Well, I think the OP has a perfectly valid point that is worthy of intelligent discussion. While the purchase of a camera or a couple of lenses may offer very little in the way of leverage in the grand scheme of things, why shouldn't we think about where our money goes and who it supports? I think it would be fantastic if we could all take into account a company's environmental stewardship, labor practices, adherence to intellectual property laws etc. when we make purchasing decisions (though we have to be careful not to paint with too broad a brush as has been rightly noted in numerous responses). If photography equipment expenditures account for a significant part of our disposable income then it's where we're most in a position to apply what little leverage we have. I salute the OP for thinking about this and starting this discussion. It's too bad there aren't easy answers.

09-18-2013, 11:37 AM	#21
LFLee Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Southern California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,292	Originally posted by scratchpaddy I thought my camera was made in the Philippines. Is there something we should collectively punish everyone in that country for, as well? probably! like they cut down rain forest.... chill.

09-18-2013, 11:48 AM	#22
mikeSF Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: East Bay Area, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,620	If misdeeds of the citizens had any influence on my buying habits, I would have stopped buying USA-made products years ago. Your dilemma seems like utter nonsense to me.

09-18-2013, 12:18 PM	#23
derelict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: NoVa Posts: 525	Originally posted by LaurenOE Chic-Fil-A More for me! OP, you should also boycott things made in China for their human rights violations. Not to mention their environmental violations. Oh wait, you cannot do that and have all the basics. Boycotting Vietnamese made things will do absolutely nothing. Boycotts do nothing on an individual basis.

09-18-2013, 12:24 PM	#24
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by derelict More for me! OP, you should also boycott things made in China for their human rights violations. Not to mention their environmental violations. Oh wait, you cannot do that and have all the basics. Boycotting Vietnamese made things will do absolutely nothing. Boycotts do nothing on an individual basis. My boycott of Kraft hasn't even brought a letter of acknowledgement. Oh wait, I forgot to tell them I was boycotting them... but, come on, they should have noticed... I mean my business was worth at least 50 pounds of cheese a year...my boycott cost them at least $50 off their bottom line. The shock was when I found out they had stopped the practice I was boycotting them for, no one told me... I missed out on Kraft cheese slices fo years for no reason. These boycotts are so complicated. I feel like now I should buy Kraft product (whenever it's on sale, I won't pay more than a penny a gram for cheese, my own personal boycott of sorts.) After all, I deprived them of their profits for at least 5 years and gave them to other cheese companies.. I feel so guilty.

09-18-2013, 01:13 PM	#26
IchabodCrane Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,728	Originally posted by Parallax If we're going to boycott based on crimes against humanity then we have to put Hong Kong up near the top of the list for giving us William Hung William Hung Original American Idol Auditon - YouTube I was thinking of throwing my Samsung plasma TV in the dumpster because of Psy's Gangnam Style video. Seriously, if Pentax in any tangible way was connected to or knowingly using products from rhino poaching.... I would not buy their gear. I've seen nothing suggesting they are.

09-18-2013, 01:23 PM	#27
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Parallax If we're going to boycott based on crimes against humanity then we have to put Hong Kong up near the top of the list for giving us William Hung William Hung Original American Idol Auditon - YouTube I realized long ago, if you start boycotting everyone who deserves it, you're not going to buy anything from anybody, except maybe the Amish, and they're practically a cult so I'd have to boycott them eventually.

09-18-2013, 01:32 PM	#28
dms Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New York, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,192	If you feel this strongly email Pentax your views and refuse to buy/use lenses made in Vietnam. While Pentax has no strong clout to negotiate anything w/ Vietnam government, and your stance is a drop in the ocean, I don't see where you have another choice. There are lots of Pentax lenses available that aren't made there. To do otherwise would be in conflict with your moral stand. Only you can decide where and when to "draw the line."

09-18-2013, 01:35 PM	#29
tabl10s Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Sacramento(formerly from B'Ham, England). Posts: 1,424	Give it up as it'll get you nowhere. Germany and Japan were once allies 70 years ago(no camera for you). Italy was bad too and gave us the Mafia(no $10k 11-speed bikes/Ferrari's or Bugatti's for you). The United States allowed Slavery...

09-18-2013, 01:52 PM	#30
aurele Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Paris, France Photos: Albums Posts: 3,217	Originally posted by normhead I realized long ago, if you start boycotting everyone who deserves it, you're not going to buy anything from anybody, except maybe the Amish, and they're practically a cult so I'd have to boycott them eventually. You've sum up the point, but better than other : it was funnier