[k5astro]

I just thought I would make this point because Pentax does not have optical viewfinders in their mirrorless cameras - including compact.

One thing I like about the DSLR is the "through the lens" view. As far as I'm concerned its the only way to view and frame a picture properly. Now with the advent of video in most cameras, I've discovered that the optical viewfinder is even more essential. Again, in order to keep the subject in the frame and properly focused, the viewfinder is needed WHILE shooting - stills or video.

Hopefully, Pentax will add optical viewfinders to the next GR or MX.

[SideRaptor]

Uh, how good there possibly be an optial viewfinder on mirrorless camera...?

[k5astro]

As good as say a Fuji X100 or a Leica M

Edit: I guess to add detail to my initial point. It can be very difficult to keep a moving subject in the frame with an LCD viewer. The optical viewfinder helps a lot.

[aleonx3]

do you mean electronic viewfinder? How can you have optical viewfinder when there is no mirror?

[monochrome]

You mean like this optical viewfinder?

[k5astro]

Optical viewfinder does not necessarily mean "through the lens" like in the DSLR. All rangefinders have optical viewfinders but they do not provide "through the lens" viewing.

A "through the lens" viewfinder at all times would be ideal. The (D)SLR is a compromise where the mirror flips up during the brief time that the picture is taken. Perfectly good compromise until you try to use the new video features and must use the LCD viewfinder. A lot of people like the mirrorless because it gets rid of the mirror and prism, makes the camera smaller, etc. but it has disadvantages like having to hold the camera out in front of you. OK when you snap a pic but horrible when you try to video something or you're trying to do a lot of pics like in a photoshoot. The optical viewfinder helps in steadying the camera in both still and video modes, is more comfortable over time, and you can see the full dynamic range of the image with your eye instead of the limited dynamic range of the sensor and LCD.

I used to have a powershot (point-and-shoot) with lcd back and optical viewfinder and I always preferred the viewfinder.

[k5astro]

@monochrome - yeah, or this one:

[k5astro]

or this one if the pic insert works :-P

(Edit: probably my next camera unless Pentax comes out with something equivalent)

[monochrome]

[EDIT: In Replies below it has been observed that since a rangefinder is used optically it is an optical viewfinder used for framing. That is, of course, correct]

What you mean is a rangefinder. Generally, an optical viewfinder refers to a "through-the-lens" viewfinder that uses a mirror to reflect the image up to a prism, so that the image exits through the rear of the viewfinder. What you see is (approximately) what the lens sees (subject to design limitations).

A Rangefinder is a separate optical assembly altogether. It must be corrected for the fact that it is not in the identical optical patch as the image projected onto the sensor, i.e. it must be corrected for parallax. It must be coupled to the lens focusing mechanics in an analog camera or for manually focusing a digital camera and for actually seeing the focus of "autofocus" (unless the RF viewfinder is simply hyperfocal and the user accepts the camera's autofocus as always "correct"),

Opinion Follows:

In digital rangefinders most VF's are just framing devices. True focusing mechanisms are Electronic ViewFinders (EVF's), which don't yet have fidelity as good as an OVF, suffer from lag, display issues and other imperfections and aren't yet quite up to standard for real Sports/Action in cameras. They work well in dedicated video recording devices, just as true optical viewfinders work well in still recording devices..

[k5astro]

@monochrome - you have good points but I don't mean rangefinder. Check out this camera with an optical viewfinder :

Fujifilm X100S Digital Camera | Fujifilm Canada

[stevebrot]

Uh, how good there possibly be an optial viewfinder on mirrorless camera...?

As noted above, the same as on any other camera where bracing against the face to steady the camera is desirable. Holding the camera at arms length to take the shot is OK for iPhone or snapshots, but not particularly great otherwise.

There is also the matter of shooting in bright light where you can't see the LCD display or shooting in a club setting or performance where the brightness of the LCD is a distraction to other people present.

In general, the need could be satisfied (at least for primes) with a series of auxiliary finders and Pentax does sell an auxiliary optical viewfinder for the "Q7" that works with the normal lens for that camera. It might also be possible to re-purpose auxiliary finders from other makers.


Steve


(...shoots a lot with rangefinder film cameras...well acquainted with non-ttl finders...)

[stevebrot]

Generally, an optical viewfinder refers to a "through-the-lens" viewfinder that uses a mirror to reflect the image up to a prism, so that the image exits through the rear of the viewfinder. What you see is (approximately) what the lens sees (subject to design limitations).

...Unless, of course, the optical path for the viewfinder is not through the lens. Historically, the viewfinder is intended to frame the shot (hence the name). Focus may or may not be supported, depending on the camera. The main challenge with non-reflex (non-TTL) viewfinders is support of multiple focal lengths, particularly zooms.


Steve

[k5astro]

@stevebrot - great points. That Q7 auxiliary finder would be great for DSLR video. To bad it won't work on my K5ii

[monochrome]

@monochrome - you have good points but I don't mean rangefinder. Check out this camera with an optical viewfinder :

Fujifilm X100S Digital Camera | Fujifilm Canada

"When you want to view the subject with maximum clarity or keep shutter time lag to a minimum, the Optical Viewfinder (OVF) impresses with stunning optical quality. For confirmation of focus, exposure, white balance and depth of field while shooting the scene, just move the lever to Electronic Viewfinder (EVF). According to the demands of the shooting conditions and your creative inspiration, the FUJIFILM X100S gives you the capability of switching between two viewfinders."By their own description that is a hybrid viewfinder. They used the term Optical Viewfinder incorrectly. What about their "Features" description contradicts anything I wrote? You choose either a Rangefinder with electronic information overlay or a full EVF.

[monochrome]

...Unless, of course, the optical path for the viewfinder is not through the lens. Historically, the viewfinder is intended to frame the shot (hence the name). Focus may or may not be supported, depending on the camera. The main challenge with non-reflex (non-TTL) viewfinders is support of multiple focal lengths, particularly zooms.


Steve

I knew when I wrote someone would expand / correct me and if I could have laid money down I'd have bet it would be you

To clarify I suppose OVF is "correct" and I should narrow my points to TTL viewfinders, but in modern, accepted parlance that seems fussy and imprecise.