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awaldram · 10-22-2013, 04:26 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

They bought into a system, sink cash into proprietary accessories like lenses and flashes, and then can't afford and/or can't justify to switch when they want to. That's less simple. All they can do is wait in frustration. Of course they're going to be verbal about that.

So they bought into a manufacturer that until recently was saying NO FF EVER.

and so they wait in frustration !!!!!

come-on give us a break, are you saying all FF wanna Be's are complete idiots ? plowing cash into a system with no prospect of FF and now screaming and ranting because there maybe a faint hope.?

Seems a very foolish buyer to me.

I think it more likely a certain type of consumer is used to buying without thought or research ' want it buy it' and is frustrated as their compulsion is thwarted by reality.
So they blame Ricoh Pentax for their neglect.

Nobody can possible say they bought Pentax expecting a FF upgrade path (unless they hang out on RH blog site)

Macario · 10-22-2013, 04:42 AM

Originally posted by tabl10s

what do you want for the K-1/LX-D? Large sensor,12-14 FPS, 38 MP's...or more, High-Point finder like the Nikon F3 w/100% & magnification, Focus Peaking that changes color as image comes into view, integral WiFi, AF in video mode, auto in-camera lens calibration, manual override of horizontal level if askew. That's about it.

it is impossible to get all you want in a new camera. There will always be thing missing that you wanted. So it will always be a compromise what you want and what you get. If you cannot compromise, don't buy it.

Clavius · 10-22-2013, 04:57 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by awaldram

So they bought into a manufacturer that until recently was saying NO FF EVER.

and so they wait in frustration !!!!!

come-on give us a break, are you saying all FF wanna Be's are complete idiots ? plowing cash into a system with no prospect of FF and now screaming and ranting because there maybe a faint hope.?

Seems a very foolish buyer to me.

I think it more likely a certain type of consumer is used to buying without thought or research ' want it buy it' and is frustrated as their compulsion is thwarted by reality.
So they blame Ricoh Pentax for their neglect.

Nobody can possible say they bought Pentax expecting a FF upgrade path (unless they hang out on RH blog site)

...You haven't noticed all the film enthusiasts in here then? Should they all have looked into the crystal ball when they bought into Pentax before digital? I agree though, people that bought into Pentax during the no-FF-ever-era shouldn't complain. But I'm guessing that the latter category aren't the ones complaining because *they're not into Pentax for the FF. (*shouldn't be.)

stormtech · 10-22-2013, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by sledger

Well the catch22 there is that first I must read the post to know it's one to avoid..

Exactly - this belongs in the rumor or FF section so I can also avoid this type of thing.......

Rupert · 10-22-2013, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by Ash

Good answer. And most of us cannot utilise the current tools to the best of their ability before asking for something more. FF sounds like something we all want (well a lot of us anyway) and yet just about all that we shoot can be just as effectively done on APS-C. I once craved for a Pentax FF, but now haven't looked any further than the K-5 II that I already have. And I'd say even the majority of pros could do what they do with a K-5 II or K-3.

Absolutely agree! What I would love to see, (but never will because it is not possible), is a thread where former APS-C shooters post their best work with their APS-C cameras and then their best work after obtaining a FF camera to show the "Great Improvement" they have achieved.

I'm not anti-FF, but I got off that bandwagon a couple of years ago after visiting a friends studio in Dallas. It is a high class first rate studio, with clients including many of the Dallas Cowboys and their families among others. He was shooting with two D700s in the studio, but outside the studio and on vacations he preferred a smaller more adaptive camera and to my surprise, pulled out a (then new model) K5 with a nice assortment of Ltd lenses. He was quick to point out to me that he could and had used it in his studio on occasion and was perfectly satisfied with the results. After viewing more of his work, and some with the K5, it made me re-think the FF issue. Why were his K5 shots so outstanding? He was a damn good shooter! It was that simple.

Maybe some of those that can show their outstanding improvement with a FF camera can give us some of their examples before and after for our critique?

Best Regards!

**monochrome** · 10-22-2013, 06:05 AM

Now that We haven't gotten everything We wanted from PentaxForums We thought We would take up some time and space and give you all Our complaint.

We can Ignore a sub-Forum. We can Ignore a Poster. We cannot Ignore a Thread.

We wish PentaxForums had a "Ignore Thread" option so We could selectively filter such. It isn't enough to just not read it. We don't even want to see the thread title.

mamethot · 10-22-2013, 06:07 AM

That would be a nice feature...

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/forum-suggestions-news-help/240343-questi...ml#post2549686

**boriscleto** · 10-22-2013, 06:20 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by monochrome

Now that We haven't gotten everything We wanted from PentaxForums We thought We would take up some time and space and give you all Our complaint.

We can Ignore a sub-Forum. We can Ignore a Poster. We cannot Ignore a thread.

We wish PentaxForums had a "Ignore Thread" option so We could selectively filter such. It isn't enough to just not read it. We don't even want to see the thread title.

If you ignore a user you don't see the threads they started, except in the latest threads. When you've boriscleto'd™ enough of the complainers you won't want an ignore thread option...

**monochrome** · 10-22-2013, 06:23 AM

Originally posted by boriscleto

If you ignore a user you don't see the threads they started, except in the latest threads. When you've boriscleto'd™ enough of the complainers you won't want an ignore thread option...

I see you "Marked" the active verb!!

**boriscleto** · 10-22-2013, 06:30 AM

When the Pentax FF is finally released you can be sure there will be people complaining it doesn't do this...

The Onion *NSFW

Dan · 10-22-2013, 06:48 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by awaldram

So they bought into a manufacturer that until recently was saying NO FF EVER.

and so they wait in frustration !!!!!

come-on give us a break, are you saying all FF wanna Be's are complete idiots ? plowing cash into a system with no prospect of FF and now screaming and ranting because there maybe a faint hope.?

Seems a very foolish buyer to me. ...

What an insulting and poorly informed post!

First, Pentax never said "NO FF EVER". For a long time they said "we have no plans" to introduce FF. That was when FF cameras were expensive, large beasts. It was too early for them to consider making such a camera, and too early for most Pentax users to consider buying one--from Pentax or anyone else. So at the time their plans made perfect sense. But the technology has advanced (as it tends to do) and the cost of sensors has declined. It seems that the technology may have finally reached the point where it makes sense for Pentax--and many of their customers--to go "full frame". This is why Ricoh/Pentax have changed their plans and have been working on the development of a FF camera. I have long believed that the cost of FF would eventually decline to the point where it would become compelling for Pentax to make a FF camera. If we are not quite there we are very close.

By the way, when I bought into the Pentax system it was in the film days, when Pentax used the same "sensor" as everyone else. We called it "film". I purchased the *ist-D when it came out. It had great compatibility with film-era lenses. (The on-camera flash even worked with K and M-series lenses.) At that time no one other than Canon had a FF camera, and the full-frame Canon was both absurdly expensive and huge. Nikon's pro-level camera used a crop sensor. That's where the technology was at the time. That's not where it is now.

A lot of Pentax users bought into the system in the film days and have hung around because we like the Pentax virtues of high-quality prime lenses and compact, rugged camera bodies. How "foolish" of us to do this! Or maybe not! Apparently Ricoh has a plan, and we are going to like it!

As for "screaming" and "ranting", that seems to be a pretty good characterization of your post.

Dan

Parallax · 10-22-2013, 07:04 AM

This isn't about the K-3 so it doesn't belong in the K-3 forum. Since we don't have a "Here we go again" forum, I'll move it to General Photography and Industry.

tabl10s · 10-22-2013, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by awaldram

So they bought into a manufacturer that until recently was saying NO FF EVER.

and so they wait in frustration !!!!!

come-on give us a break, are you saying all FF wanna Be's are complete idiots ? plowing cash into a system with no prospect of FF and now screaming and ranting because there maybe a faint hope.?

Seems a very foolish buyer to me.

I think it more likely a certain type of consumer is used to buying without thought or research ' want it buy it' and is frustrated as their compulsion is thwarted by reality.
So they blame Ricoh Pentax for their neglect.

Nobody can possible say they bought Pentax expecting a FF upgrade path (unless they hang out on RH blog site)

I added "Large Sensor" at the last minute. If Ricoh can find a way to switch back-n-forth between the two formats in one body, that would be fantastic. I shot my "Full Frame" LX for 32 years and didn't know APS-C was. I knew Pentax had new digital cameras, but refused to get one because they had less MP's than my point-n-shoot.

They same people bitching about FF threads were thought of the same way as the FF crowd when asking about the K-5 bounce/overexposure problem. I don't need FF, but if it comes around, I'll get it.

Dan · 10-22-2013, 07:22 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by sledger

I want it to stop.... just stop...

What do you mean by "it". If by "it" you mean people complaining about missing features, that will never stop. The introduction of a FF camera will not stop it. Nothing will stop it. When I read a forum I fully expect to find people complaining about this or that. I suggest that you try to get used to it.

On the other hand, if by "it" you mean FF fans trolling threads on subjects that have nothing to do with FF and hijacking the thread, well that probably won't stop either, but I can offer some advice: "PLEASE don't feed the trolls". It is a breach of etiquette to hijack a thread, but responding to the trolls just makes it worse.

As for the current thread, should a complaint about the "missing features" of the K-3 be posted in the K-3 subforum? Sure, why not? Surely the K-3 subforum is not just for people who are happy with the camera. People should feel free to post about what they consider to be missing features. The trolls in this case are not the people complaining about missing features, but rather those of you who have hijacked the thread to complain about FF "fan boys". And so with this post I am ignoring my own advice by feeding the trolls! Ack!!

I sometimes find it difficult to take my own advice.

Dan

Parallax · 10-22-2013, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by Dan

And so with this post I am ignoring my own advice by feeding the trolls! Ack!!

Vicious circle, isn't it?

10-22-2013, 06:05 AM	#21
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Now that We didn't get all We wanted with the last PF upgrade . . . . Now that We haven't gotten everything We wanted from PentaxForums We thought We would take up some time and space and give you all Our complaint. We can Ignore a sub-Forum. We can Ignore a Poster. We cannot Ignore a Thread. We wish PentaxForums had a "Ignore Thread" option so We could selectively filter such. It isn't enough to just not read it. We don't even want to see the thread title. Last edited by monochrome; 10-22-2013 at 06:22 AM.

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10-22-2013, 04:26 AM	#16
awaldram Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery Posts: 732	Originally posted by Clavius They bought into a system, sink cash into proprietary accessories like lenses and flashes, and then can't afford and/or can't justify to switch when they want to. That's less simple. All they can do is wait in frustration. Of course they're going to be verbal about that. So they bought into a manufacturer that until recently was saying NO FF EVER. and so they wait in frustration !!!!! come-on give us a break, are you saying all FF wanna Be's are complete idiots ? plowing cash into a system with no prospect of FF and now screaming and ranting because there maybe a faint hope.? Seems a very foolish buyer to me. I think it more likely a certain type of consumer is used to buying without thought or research ' want it buy it' and is frustrated as their compulsion is thwarted by reality. So they blame Ricoh Pentax for their neglect. Nobody can possible say they bought Pentax expecting a FF upgrade path (unless they hang out on RH blog site)

10-22-2013, 04:42 AM	#17
Macario Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Hoek van Holland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,393	Originally posted by tabl10s what do you want for the K-1/LX-D? Large sensor,12-14 FPS, 38 MP's...or more, High-Point finder like the Nikon F3 w/100% & magnification, Focus Peaking that changes color as image comes into view, integral WiFi, AF in video mode, auto in-camera lens calibration, manual override of horizontal level if askew. That's about it. it is impossible to get all you want in a new camera. There will always be thing missing that you wanted. So it will always be a compromise what you want and what you get. If you cannot compromise, don't buy it.

10-22-2013, 04:57 AM - 1 Like	#18
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by awaldram So they bought into a manufacturer that until recently was saying NO FF EVER. and so they wait in frustration !!!!! come-on give us a break, are you saying all FF wanna Be's are complete idiots ? plowing cash into a system with no prospect of FF and now screaming and ranting because there maybe a faint hope.? Seems a very foolish buyer to me. I think it more likely a certain type of consumer is used to buying without thought or research ' want it buy it' and is frustrated as their compulsion is thwarted by reality. So they blame Ricoh Pentax for their neglect. Nobody can possible say they bought Pentax expecting a FF upgrade path (unless they hang out on RH blog site) ...You haven't noticed all the film enthusiasts in here then? Should they all have looked into the crystal ball when they bought into Pentax before digital? I agree though, people that bought into Pentax during the no-FF-ever-era shouldn't complain. But I'm guessing that the latter category aren't the ones complaining because they're not into Pentax for the FF. (shouldn't be.)

10-22-2013, 05:44 AM	#19
stormtech Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: In the boonies (NW Penna) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,744	Originally posted by sledger Well the catch22 there is that first I must read the post to know it's one to avoid.. Exactly - this belongs in the rumor or FF section so I can also avoid this type of thing.......

10-22-2013, 05:50 AM	#20
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Originally posted by Ash Good answer. And most of us cannot utilise the current tools to the best of their ability before asking for something more. FF sounds like something we all want (well a lot of us anyway) and yet just about all that we shoot can be just as effectively done on APS-C. I once craved for a Pentax FF, but now haven't looked any further than the K-5 II that I already have. And I'd say even the majority of pros could do what they do with a K-5 II or K-3. Absolutely agree! What I would love to see, (but never will because it is not possible), is a thread where former APS-C shooters post their best work with their APS-C cameras and then their best work after obtaining a FF camera to show the "Great Improvement" they have achieved. I'm not anti-FF, but I got off that bandwagon a couple of years ago after visiting a friends studio in Dallas. It is a high class first rate studio, with clients including many of the Dallas Cowboys and their families among others. He was shooting with two D700s in the studio, but outside the studio and on vacations he preferred a smaller more adaptive camera and to my surprise, pulled out a (then new model) K5 with a nice assortment of Ltd lenses. He was quick to point out to me that he could and had used it in his studio on occasion and was perfectly satisfied with the results. After viewing more of his work, and some with the K5, it made me re-think the FF issue. Why were his K5 shots so outstanding? He was a damn good shooter! It was that simple. Maybe some of those that can show their outstanding improvement with a FF camera can give us some of their examples before and after for our critique? Best Regards!

10-22-2013, 06:07 AM	#22
mamethot Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Greater Montreal Area Posts: 736	That would be a nice feature... https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/forum-suggestions-news-help/240343-questi...ml#post2549686

10-22-2013, 06:20 AM - 1 Like	#23
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,477	Originally posted by monochrome Now that We haven't gotten everything We wanted from PentaxForums We thought We would take up some time and space and give you all Our complaint. We can Ignore a sub-Forum. We can Ignore a Poster. We cannot Ignore a thread. We wish PentaxForums had a "Ignore Thread" option so We could selectively filter such. It isn't enough to just not read it. We don't even want to see the thread title. If you ignore a user you don't see the threads they started, except in the latest threads. When you've boriscleto'd™ enough of the complainers you won't want an ignore thread option...

10-22-2013, 06:23 AM	#24
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by boriscleto If you ignore a user you don't see the threads they started, except in the latest threads. When you've boriscleto'd™ enough of the complainers you won't want an ignore thread option... I see you "Marked" the active verb!!

10-22-2013, 06:30 AM	#25
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,477	When the Pentax FF is finally released you can be sure there will be people complaining it doesn't do this... The Onion *NSFW

10-22-2013, 06:48 AM - 2 Likes	#26
Dan Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 325	Originally posted by awaldram So they bought into a manufacturer that until recently was saying NO FF EVER. and so they wait in frustration !!!!! come-on give us a break, are you saying all FF wanna Be's are complete idiots ? plowing cash into a system with no prospect of FF and now screaming and ranting because there maybe a faint hope.? Seems a very foolish buyer to me. ... What an insulting and poorly informed post! First, Pentax never said "NO FF EVER". For a long time they said "we have no plans" to introduce FF. That was when FF cameras were expensive, large beasts. It was too early for them to consider making such a camera, and too early for most Pentax users to consider buying one--from Pentax or anyone else. So at the time their plans made perfect sense. But the technology has advanced (as it tends to do) and the cost of sensors has declined. It seems that the technology may have finally reached the point where it makes sense for Pentax--and many of their customers--to go "full frame". This is why Ricoh/Pentax have changed their plans and have been working on the development of a FF camera. I have long believed that the cost of FF would eventually decline to the point where it would become compelling for Pentax to make a FF camera. If we are not quite there we are very close. By the way, when I bought into the Pentax system it was in the film days, when Pentax used the same "sensor" as everyone else. We called it "film". I purchased the *ist-D when it came out. It had great compatibility with film-era lenses. (The on-camera flash even worked with K and M-series lenses.) At that time no one other than Canon had a FF camera, and the full-frame Canon was both absurdly expensive and huge. Nikon's pro-level camera used a crop sensor. That's where the technology was at the time. That's not where it is now. A lot of Pentax users bought into the system in the film days and have hung around because we like the Pentax virtues of high-quality prime lenses and compact, rugged camera bodies. How "foolish" of us to do this! Or maybe not! Apparently Ricoh has a plan, and we are going to like it! As for "screaming" and "ranting", that seems to be a pretty good characterization of your post. Dan

10-22-2013, 07:04 AM	#27
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,333	This isn't about the K-3 so it doesn't belong in the K-3 forum. Since we don't have a "Here we go again" forum, I'll move it to General Photography and Industry.

10-22-2013, 07:06 AM	#28
tabl10s Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Sacramento(formerly from B'Ham, England). Posts: 1,424 Original Poster	Originally posted by awaldram So they bought into a manufacturer that until recently was saying NO FF EVER. and so they wait in frustration !!!!! come-on give us a break, are you saying all FF wanna Be's are complete idiots ? plowing cash into a system with no prospect of FF and now screaming and ranting because there maybe a faint hope.? Seems a very foolish buyer to me. I think it more likely a certain type of consumer is used to buying without thought or research ' want it buy it' and is frustrated as their compulsion is thwarted by reality. So they blame Ricoh Pentax for their neglect. Nobody can possible say they bought Pentax expecting a FF upgrade path (unless they hang out on RH blog site) I added "Large Sensor" at the last minute. If Ricoh can find a way to switch back-n-forth between the two formats in one body, that would be fantastic. I shot my "Full Frame" LX for 32 years and didn't know APS-C was. I knew Pentax had new digital cameras, but refused to get one because they had less MP's than my point-n-shoot. They same people bitching about FF threads were thought of the same way as the FF crowd when asking about the K-5 bounce/overexposure problem. I don't need FF, but if it comes around, I'll get it.

10-22-2013, 07:22 AM - 1 Like	#29
Dan Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 325	Originally posted by sledger I want it to stop.... just stop... What do you mean by "it". If by "it" you mean people complaining about missing features, that will never stop. The introduction of a FF camera will not stop it. Nothing will stop it. When I read a forum I fully expect to find people complaining about this or that. I suggest that you try to get used to it. On the other hand, if by "it" you mean FF fans trolling threads on subjects that have nothing to do with FF and hijacking the thread, well that probably won't stop either, but I can offer some advice: "PLEASE don't feed the trolls". It is a breach of etiquette to hijack a thread, but responding to the trolls just makes it worse. As for the current thread, should a complaint about the "missing features" of the K-3 be posted in the K-3 subforum? Sure, why not? Surely the K-3 subforum is not just for people who are happy with the camera. People should feel free to post about what they consider to be missing features. The trolls in this case are not the people complaining about missing features, but rather those of you who have hijacked the thread to complain about FF "fan boys". And so with this post I am ignoring my own advice by feeding the trolls! Ack!! I sometimes find it difficult to take my own advice. Dan

10-22-2013, 07:24 AM	#30
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,333	Originally posted by Dan And so with this post I am ignoring my own advice by feeding the trolls! Ack!! Vicious circle, isn't it?

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