[noVICE]

I have noticed that some couples are now informing their guests that phones are to be switched off (in some cases collected) for the duration of the ceremony. Many people are very self-absorbed these days and I feel that the couple need to be more assertive with their guests to ensure that photographers can do a good job. In general these rogue guests are more likely to listen and react to an angry bride/groom rather than some polite words from another person with a camera.

[aurele]

Really sorry to read such a sad story from you, Zafar !

Lots of very good advice in the response though ! For me, the "unplugged" wedding is probably the best option to discuss with the bride and groom.

This "unplugged" kind of thing is growing even in some concert, shows, and so on, in Europe. And that's a good thing.

The video is very informative and funny

[johnyates]

In general these rogue guests are more likely to listen and react to an angry bride/groom rather than some polite words from another person with a camera.

The B&G who have a significant monetary investment in the outcome of the photos are the ones most likely to keep the "rogue" guests in line. Raise your prices!

[polachekphotography]

It appears you're on the right track but just ran into a particularly difficult group. I'll echo that your best bet in this situation is communication with the B&G beforehand, and contract language to define what your role is and what you are and are not responsible for, and what cooperation you need in order to get the best results.

One way to deal with future would be to arrange for the bride, groom, and wedding party to move to a second location for the formals. If the whole family is coming along it's always good to get the family photos done first, after which they can be dismissed. No interference from outside parties that way.

I also agree with Winder's suggestion: Meet with the officiant beforehand and have them announce that there is a pro photographer taking photos of the ceremony and that everyone else is to stay in their seats. You can also have the officiant announce that the B&G will be leaving afterwards for a PRIVATE photo session.

Another big help in this situation would be having a second shooter or assistant to herd people. We've also had good luck enlisting help from one of the bridesmaids or someone else close to the family (preferably someone who's not shy and has a good "teacher" or "mom" voice, lol) to get everyone organized. This is often more effective coming from someone who's familiar to the group.

[Zafar Iqbal]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. There have been many useful suggestions which I'm going to use to come up with a better approach for future clients. I don't think there is ever going to be a fail safe solution and I'm also perfectly fine with a wedding being hectic - this particular one was just too chaotic and from too many different people, including professionals.

I will hopefully though not experience anything similar for a long time. Fortunately most of the weddings I've done show, that the guests do respect the professionals.

[Tippon]

I'm not a pro by a long shot, but I can tell you what happened in my wedding, which might help

The vicar told us in advance that there would be no photography in the church, and just one video camera on a stand. Before my wife arrived, he also told the guests.

We took the family and friend shots on the church grounds, and as our photographer is a bit shy, one of my friends took over herding the crowd into the required positions. He's an entertainer in Cyprus, so he's definitely not shy! Me and the new wife then went into a separate area with the photographer and his wife / assistant for some couples shots.

At the meal and evening reception, we wanted street style photography rather than posed shots, as we both prefer natural poses. This obviously made it easier for the photographer, but won't be everyone's cup of tea.

Good luck for any future weddings

[terihanright]

I recently covered a wedding and had the worst experience ever:

Complete lack of respect - and I mean that literally.

Tons of people wanted to take their own photographs. Mostly cellphone users = they crowded up very close. Typical working space at key moments incl. group shots were 1-2 meters while rubbing elbows and shoulders.

No matter how few or many I tried to photograph, someone else always jumped in.. and one more.. and one more. This led to some mis-fires ie. not a single shot taken because the group was never finished before it dissolved itself (by added help from the by-standing cell-phone shooters, who naturally just clicked away no matter how the group looked - so much for me being there at the wedding).

I repeatedly expressed my worries and kindly asked people to respect what I was doing but to no vain. Instead some got angry with me and later deliberately walked past in front of the cam, while I was attempting group or couple shots.

I told all this to the person I was in contact with during the day, and he understood - he tried and tried but he too failed.

There was a videographer there as well and I had few words with him before guests started to arrive, to introduce myself, let him know how I prefer to work, and also to asked how he works, so I too could respect his ways as well. He seemed to get offended by it and assured me he had done tons and tons of weddings and is fully routined with working alongside with photographers. That's was a huge lie or his definition was entirely different. He completely ignored what I had wished for and when we did the formal group/family shots, *he* got angry with me.

For instance, I set up for *the* family shot. Shuffled people around so the group would look nicer. Moved trash away from the floor etc. etc. and when I stepped away to take a shot, the videographer tells *me* to step aside and in a nasty tone. Like hell I was going to make him ruin the shot I just set up for. I really felt like slapping him several times during the day.

And what did he do with every single group? Pan across all faces. Seriously? Why not just use a photo and zoom in on that and pan - it's almost as lifeless as whatever you are trying :/

When the couple arrived (each by them selfs and their own families), I had asked for few clean long-focal shots. I got none. The videographer was right up their faces all the way from car, entrance and to where they were supposed to sit.

I also told my contact person that I can't deliver what the couple is expecting. There were no point in trying, since there were so many issues. It wasn't hard working conditions. It was impossible working conditions.

Oh, and whenever I did get to photograph, the groups heads were turned all over the place - the hell they are since i have 100 cellphones besides me.

People just simply didn't get the single point that with so many cameras, non is ending up with anything good.

Oh and the place the reception was held at - I'm amazed by the lack of their lack of professionalism and service level. Music was playing all the time and often so loud that I couldn't hear my own thoughts, let alone communicate with whomever I was attempting to photograph. Communication developed into sign language. They also kicked the final guests (family members) out 1½h earlier than what the couple had booked for!

Most of the guest had already left by the end of the day and this was when I could shine. I now had peace and room to do *my* stuff and did some fancy shots with the couple. Ironically the remainder of the people loved them (why couldn't they figure this out early since i was *hired* for this, and give me the space I needed throughout the day?! :/ ). So much so that everyone wanted to have their turns, from young to old. Fine.. but then the place kicked us out. I had to pack my gear in complete darkness with only some light shining through the window. I asked the organizer to turn it back on - twice to make sure he heard me, and he did, but he asked me to move my stuff outside where there is light. I'm pretty sure I'm going to advice every single person I talk to from now on, not to use that place. Well done.

I was frustrated but had a smile on my face all day - because how I appear to be affects who I photograph. But both the videographer and the organizer at the places were idiots. The videographer started to yell at people at one point (yah, it was hard for him too, but don't yell, you moron).

I've had challenging weddings before, but this tops them all, combined, by far! I've had issues with multiple Uncle Bob types at the same wedding, but nothing that even comes close to this. Was the wedding *that* special? Not at all. What I experienced and witnessed was lack of civilized behavior from many many people, including professionals.

So yah, I'm pissed. I have some good shots, but I do not have "my kind of shots". The kind the couple hired me for. I feel bad about it on their behalf, but I do not for a second feel I failed anyone, which otherwise is something I can easily do.

What would you have done? I feel I tried everything I could - almost everything. One last option that I see would be to turn off the music, grab everyone attention by yelling, preferably using a mic, and telling people to shove their phones - in a kinder way. But I'm not too fond of that option and honestly, I don't think it would have helped.

Now I'm actually a bit calmer after having written all this

I have done a few weddings --- for friends with limited money, but what you went through was hell. I don't think you could have done anything differently, you tried to get cooperation. After all, you cannot force people's cooperation. I cannot understand the videographer getting angry with you. He yelled at the wedding guests ? I would never do such a thing. I have been the primary videographer at a few weddings too. I was always secondary to the hired photographer, and never got in his way. I knew my job,-- get the couple arriving, the cake exchange, the vows, the first dance, the throwing of the bouquet -- etc. I never interfered with the professional photographer. For the most part, my takes kept me clear of him. There was never too much overlap. After all, that would be a waste.
I think if I had an experience like yours, I would never do another wedding. But I have to remember I never made a living out of photographing weddings. And I always had the advantage of knowing many of the people at the wedding. Cooperation came easily. I have had nightmares before taking weddings that remind me of your experience, but thankfully I have never had an experience as negative as yours. Except for the time I was coerced into being the disk jockey. -- That was a nightmare for a different thread.

[Zafar Iqbal]

I'm not a pro by a long shot, but I can tell you what happened in my wedding, which might help

Thank you very much for sharing your experiences. What you describe is how it mostly is. I've since then been told the families weren't on the same page and one specifically asked their side of the guests, to take as many photos as they could as there was apparently some trust issues regarding who's getting the photos that I was taking. Yeah, don't ask. I'm amazed by this thinking myself, if it's true. It does explain why there was *that many* guests photographing though if it's true.

I have done a few weddings --- for friends with limited money, but what you went through was hell. I don't think you could have done anything differently, you tried to get cooperation.

Thanks. I feel I did what I could but the experience and this thread has thought me I need to be aware of more things and talk about them with the couple before the wedding.

After all, you cannot force people's cooperation. I cannot understand the videographer getting angry with you. He yelled at the wedding guests ?

You are right in that we can't force people, though I'd hate it if the guest never didn anything as well. They contribute to the day in a major way. Sometimes too much

The "fun" thing about the videographer is that he got angry during a traditional happening, where all of the couples friends gather up super close to them, to tease/bribe the groom (and the grooms friends verbally defend him). It was hard to get room and good angles. That's just how it is and he should know that. Maybe he knew it but still prioritized himself over what's actually happening - which IMO is very wrong, or at least not my style. It's a moment thing and I'm perfectly fine with people crowding up in such instances. Competing with guest photographers is completely different.

I think if I had an experience like yours, I would never do another wedding. But I have to remember I never made a living out of photographing weddings. And I always had the advantage of knowing many of the people at the wedding. Cooperation came easily.

I'm a stubborn guy and don't give up easily on some matters. Besides, I do like some chaos as it can be and often is a part of the day - and i love capturing moments too much. But competing with guest photographers as I did, and having to deal with the kind of "professionals" as I did, is unacceptable.

[Alizarine]

The experience hasn't scared me off but it has made me think about a thing or two I should add to my business-terms. I don't know how practical it would be or if it will be be scaring potential clients away. It's a tricky business to do business :/

When a wedding is good, even slightly, it feels really good to cover it.

I think it's about time you had a good assistant (or assistants) to do the setting-up for you. One of the key stuff (which I still find difficulty with) is to make the guests feel there is an OFFICIAL person tasked to cover the event, and that you could (or would) willingly "shoot" for them with their phones or tablets, if needed. The last thing a wedding photographer should be equated to is a "family friend who's doing some side photography for the event"... at least that's how from my experience. I can feel where you're coming from. But I've not experienced (and hopefully not) that degree of difficulty with clients.

[Zafar Iqbal]

I think it's about time you had a good assistant (or assistants) to do the setting-up for you. One of the key stuff (which I still find difficulty with) is to make the guests feel there is an OFFICIAL person tasked to cover the event, and that you could (or would) willingly "shoot" for them with their phones or tablets, if needed. The last thing a wedding photographer should be equated to is a "family friend who's doing some side photography for the event"... at least that's how from my experience. I can feel where you're coming from. But I've not experienced (and hopefully not) that degree of difficulty with clients.

I've always had the contact person have that responsibility. It's a big help to have an assistant, but using someone many guests already know has it's own benefits as well. Perhaps two would be better.

I try hard to display a positive attitude towards guests during the day and that I feel I'm good at. As bad as that wedding was, I still helped a guest out who asked about his camera settings, and took shots using other guests cell phones (after I had completed mine... of cause! :P ). I think it's important to be positive no matter what.

I've for some time now considered a discreet logo on my blazer jacket - but that's going to be expensive so I've been putting it off.

[alcstudios]

I used to do weddings, only 1 was similar to the OP's. It started out good, when I got to the place the brides father handed me a check for my services and I set up and started to work, it was a very young couple getting married and all their friends wanted to do was to see how drunk they could get from the open bar, had people jumping in front of me, running to the bar right after every shot and could not get any of them to listen to me even after numerous attempts so I could do my job.... but I found a fix, I walked up to the father, handed him his check back and said I couldn't work in this shit and I had already been there an hour and a half but it just wasn't worth my time... still amazes me to this day how he got everyones attention and things worked out good.

I use this same system at restaurants that are very slow to bring me my check, get up and start walking out and believe me they will bring that check. but I'm an A-hole and do things differently

[terihanright]

Years ago, competition for space and good angles was never a problem. But now we have all the smartphones to thank for making your job a lot harder ! Think about it, everyone has a camera with them now. Before smartphones, maybe 30% of wedding guests had cameras. Going back before digital, few guests had cameras. Maybe some disposable film cameras. It was easier back in the day... really showing my age now

[Zafar Iqbal]

I used to do weddings, only 1 was similar to the OP's. It started out good, when I got to the place the brides father handed me a check for my services and I set up and started to work, it was a very young couple getting married and all their friends wanted to do was to see how drunk they could get from the open bar

Youngsters :P

I once photographed at a 18th birthday and within the first hour, the first guy became so wasted that he went unconscious. We hadn't even reached the destination yet where the actual party would occur. As the evening progressed more and more asked me not to photograph them and it ended up being so many that around midnight, I told the birthday kid I couldn't do more photos without risking anyone not wanting to be in them, would be in them. She understood and we agreed I could leave.

I've noticed *many* young guys being overly insecure about themselves since I started photographing (only 3 years). It's rather horrible.

Years ago, competition for space and good angles was never a problem. But now we have all the smartphones to thank for making your job a lot harder ! Think about it, everyone has a camera with them now. Before smartphones, maybe 30% of wedding guests had cameras. Going back before digital, few guests had cameras. Maybe some disposable film cameras. It was easier back in the day... really showing my age now

I'm hoping people will settle down with this technology thing and eventually realize, that even though there are many things easily available to us, it can still make a very good sense to rely on an respect professionals. It's hard enough as it is to make people understand not only, why they should hire a photographer, but also why it costs like it does. On the other hand, however, there are also many who thinks they want to become professionals but aren't mentally equipped for the tasks. they deliver crap which in turn enforces the clients view, that professionals are overpraised and there really isn't much in pro photography.

[7samurai]

Sorry to hear about your experience. Thank you for posting your experience since this will give me an opportunity to have discussions with the wedding organizer and party before hand.
On a recent wedding I attended, they actually encouraged everyone to take pictures and post them to flicker. All I can say is I felt sorry for the photographer they hired. At least he got some quality time with just the couple before the chaos.

[bossa]

You have cured me of any desire to shoot weddings professionally. Thank you.

Ditto.

It's also bad when you're playing a gig at a wedding and they try to get you to let one of their drunken guests play your $7,000 guitar.

If someone touches my guitar when I'm playing they risk losing an awful lot, as, for some reason, it just pushes my buttons.