More violations of photographers rights

**boriscleto** · 02-24-2014, 11:02 AM

Cop harasses photographer, steals his cellphone battery and tries to get YouTube to pull the video | The Raw Story

Quote:

A New York City cop beat up and arrested a man for video recording him inside a subway station from 30 feet away Saturday night, walking up to him and getting in his face all while claiming the man was invading his personal space…
Thomas also obtained footage from another man who had recorded Rojas with his knees on Thomas’ back as he lay face down on the sidewalk just outside the sub station, seconds after Rojas had bashed his face into the pavement, busting his lip.

The injury was so bad that they had to transport him to the hospital twice during his 24-hour incarceration where doctors described him as a victim of assault.

Quote:

[Thomas] is still facing charges of resisting arrest, trespassing, disorderly conduct and obstructing government…

mattieyp3 · 02-24-2014, 11:31 AM

Interesting. While I kinda agree that this violates the photographers rights, I'd say that many photographers take their "rights" too far and also violate the other individuals rights. In no way am I saying that this photographer was wrong. It certainly sounds like the cop was wrong. However, our rights are only afforded to us so long as they do not infringe upon the rights of another. SO while a photographer should be allowed to snap away, he should also be mindful of those he is capturing to ensure that he is not trampling underfoot their rights in the process.

**monochrome** · 02-24-2014, 11:42 AM - **1 Like**

Seems to me the only time we here of this kind of overreaction to casually photographing someone is when the subject is a celebrity or a law enforcement officer. I wonder in both cases what they're doing that they're afraid someone might know about.

mrNewt · 02-24-2014, 12:02 PM

I think is also the nature of a person...

For example, personally I do not like or enjoy to be photographed or to be part of a video (I know... the irony right!?).
If I see someone is about to take a picture of me (or video) I always ask nicely to not... in that case I expect the person to respect my wishes and back off.

And because I don't like it, consciously I just cannot take a picture of someone without first asking for permission.
I would never be a good street photographer...

Now, I do NOT approve the cop's reaction, however, I think / strongly believe that in this case, the photographer should of backed off and turned his camera down when the cop requested so - whatever the reason was.

There is such thing as the photographer's rights but is also such a thing as decency, respect to other's wishes and common courtesy.
I think there should be a law that says if a person does not wishes to be photographed or video recorded, the photographer/videographer should back off.

**MSL** · 02-24-2014, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by mrNewt

And because I don't like it, consciously I just cannot take a picture of someone without first asking for permission. I would never be a good street photographer... Now, I do NOT approve the reaction of the cop, however, I think in this case, the photographer should of backed off and turned his camera down when the cop requested so - whatever the reason was. There is such thing as the photographer rights but is also such a thing as decency, respect to other's wishes and common courtesy. I think there should be a law that says if a person does not wishes to be photographed or video recorded, the photographer/videographer should back off.

I struggle with this when I look at other people's street photography shots and wonder if I would be willing to take them seeing as I don't want to be photographed myself.
I'm not sure how you can enforce a law about being recorded in a public place, given how many government and private surveillance cameras are out there. You'd run into a really fuzzy area if a photographer set up a camera but had it take photos at random times or some other non-photographer driven trigger (say catch in focus) as to how this could be enforced.

mrNewt · 02-24-2014, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by MSL

I struggle with this when I look at other people's street photography shots and wonder if I would be willing to take them seeing as I don't want to be photographed myself.
I'm not sure how you can enforce a law about being recorded in a public place, given how many government and private surveillance cameras are out there. You'd run into a really fuzzy area if a photographer set up a camera but had it take photos at random times or some other non-photographer driven trigger (say catch in focus) as to how this could be enforced.

Yes, is a gray area... but then again, video surveillance and someone that shoves a camera in your face are 2 different things...

I believe that when someone ask you to not take a picture/video of their person, the person with the camera should lose any rights of taking picture of that person and just back off... public or not.

johnyates · 02-24-2014, 12:31 PM

I think this has a lot to do with a faulty recruitment process for the police. Being a good police officer takes a special kind of person, who could likely find a better job elsewhere. And then there are those who join the police because they like being able to bully.

**MSL** · 02-24-2014, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by mrNewt

I believe that when someone ask you to not take a picture/video of their person, the person with the camera should lose any rights of taking picture of that person and just back off... public or not.

I agree and decency would get most people to act that way. I guess my point is that it is easy to ask the person with the 40mm lens because you'll be pretty sure they are aiming it at you (unless it is the XS

), but someone with a 200mm+ lens can shoot photos of people without them having a clue it is being done. A law needs to be broadly enforceable and written to avoid loopholes.

mrNewt · 02-24-2014, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by MSL

I agree and decency would get most people to act that way. I guess my point is that it is easy to ask the person with the 40mm lens because you'll be pretty sure they are aiming it at you (unless it is the XS

), but someone with a 200mm+ lens can shoot photos of people without them having a clue it is being done. A law needs to be broadly enforceable and written to avoid loopholes.

Well if you don't notice them because they are sniping you from across the city, is OK I guess... until they find the picture online and they ask you to take it down.
But when you do notice and you do ask them to not, then they should not.

Joel B · 02-24-2014, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Seems to me the only time we here of this kind of overreaction to casually photographing someone is when the subject is a celebrity or a law enforcement officer. I wonder in both cases what they're doing that they're afraid someone might know about.

Actually the only time we see this with law enforcement is when there is visual evidence of the act! Otherwise it is not news and the victim is arrested, booked, and sent for trial without anything to back a claim of brutality! This situation happens all too often even here in little old Des Moines!! Video or Photo use a great to keep Police honest!! So keep up the good work even if harassed! We just had a groom on his wedding day get pummeled by a Policeman who was hired off duty by the family!! The groom got a merry barrel of cash for that one!

geru2000 · 02-24-2014, 01:15 PM

New York state privacy laws do not restrict photographing in public places including, people, places,or things unless the photographer is going to use that photo commercially.

Personally if I were doing street photography I'd ask permission, however it isn't required by NYS law.

johnyates · 02-24-2014, 01:35 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by geru2000

Personally if I were doing street photography I'd ask permission, however it isn't required by NYS law.

This was not "street" photography:

Quote:

Shawn Randall Thomas, a New York photographer, was approached by NYPD officer Efrain Rojas when he noticed Thomas filming another officer's interaction with a turnstile jumper in a subway station.

This was more like news photography.

**MSL** · 02-24-2014, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by mrNewt

Well if you don't notice them because they are sniping you from across the city, is OK I guess... until they find the picture online and they ask you to take it down. But when you do notice and you do ask them to not, then they should not.

Originally posted by Joel B

Actually the only time we see this with law enforcement is when there is visual evidence of the act! Otherwise it is not news and the victim is arrested, booked, and sent for trial without anything to back a claim of brutality! This situation happens all too often even here in little old Des Moines!! Video or Photo use a great to keep Police honest!! So keep up the good work even if harassed! We just had a groom on his wedding day get pummeled by a Policeman who was hired off duty by the family!! The groom got a merry barrel of cash for that one!

Asking someone to take things down is tedious, time consuming and ineffective given how quickly things replicate on the internet.

This discussion makes me think back to when I a friend took me up to show me one of the fancy hotels in Jasper, Alberta. A young, newlywed couple happen to pull up in a horse drawn carriage and suddenly all these tourists come streaming out of their tour bus and start taking pictures of the couple. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry for the poor couple who were now a part of dozens of travel albums.

Joel B · 02-24-2014, 01:40 PM

Sort of like putting monitors in news rooms to keep tabs on the industry!!! WARNING! WARNING! Danger Will Robinson!! There is a reason why photo journalists are covered under the First Amendment! Do not let that right be taken away from you!!!!

Woolcott · 02-24-2014, 01:45 PM

Both of these guys need to learn how to handle conflict resolution.

Cop was unprofessional and unclear of the law, the guy filming was spoiling for a fight.

p.s. I'm not sure about the US, but the law on video/photographing police officers in the course of their duties is a bit of a grey area here in the UK.

02-24-2014, 11:02 AM	#1
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	More violations of photographers rights Cop harasses photographer, steals his cellphone battery and tries to get YouTube to pull the video \| The Raw Story Quote: A New York City cop beat up and arrested a man for video recording him inside a subway station from 30 feet away Saturday night, walking up to him and getting in his face all while claiming the man was invading his personal space… Thomas also obtained footage from another man who had recorded Rojas with his knees on Thomas’ back as he lay face down on the sidewalk just outside the sub station, seconds after Rojas had bashed his face into the pavement, busting his lip. The injury was so bad that they had to transport him to the hospital twice during his 24-hour incarceration where doctors described him as a victim of assault. Quote: [Thomas] is still facing charges of resisting arrest, trespassing, disorderly conduct and obstructing government…

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Photographers Rights and Photography Restrictions	Lowell Goudge	General Photography	54	02-21-2022 08:18 PM
Fox Sees Discussion Of Women's Rights And Education As A "Distraction"	jogiba	General Talk	11	08-24-2012 08:23 AM
Q&A on photographers rights in the US	mattt	Photographic Industry and Professionals	8	08-18-2012 02:12 PM
Legal question regarding rights of photos	designinme_1976	General Talk	15	07-16-2009 05:22 PM

02-24-2014, 11:31 AM	#2
mattieyp3 Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Washington, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 160	Interesting. While I kinda agree that this violates the photographers rights, I'd say that many photographers take their "rights" too far and also violate the other individuals rights. In no way am I saying that this photographer was wrong. It certainly sounds like the cop was wrong. However, our rights are only afforded to us so long as they do not infringe upon the rights of another. SO while a photographer should be allowed to snap away, he should also be mindful of those he is capturing to ensure that he is not trampling underfoot their rights in the process.

02-24-2014, 11:42 AM - 1 Like	#3
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Seems to me the only time we here of this kind of overreaction to casually photographing someone is when the subject is a celebrity or a law enforcement officer. I wonder in both cases what they're doing that they're afraid someone might know about.

02-24-2014, 12:02 PM	#4
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	I think is also the nature of a person... For example, personally I do not like or enjoy to be photographed or to be part of a video (I know... the irony right!?). If I see someone is about to take a picture of me (or video) I always ask nicely to not... in that case I expect the person to respect my wishes and back off. And because I don't like it, consciously I just cannot take a picture of someone without first asking for permission. I would never be a good street photographer... Now, I do NOT approve the cop's reaction, however, I think / strongly believe that in this case, the photographer should of backed off and turned his camera down when the cop requested so - whatever the reason was. There is such thing as the photographer's rights but is also such a thing as decency, respect to other's wishes and common courtesy. I think there should be a law that says if a person does not wishes to be photographed or video recorded, the photographer/videographer should back off.

02-24-2014, 12:07 PM	#5
MSL Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Greater Toronto Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,749	Originally posted by mrNewt And because I don't like it, consciously I just cannot take a picture of someone without first asking for permission. I would never be a good street photographer... Now, I do NOT approve the reaction of the cop, however, I think in this case, the photographer should of backed off and turned his camera down when the cop requested so - whatever the reason was. There is such thing as the photographer rights but is also such a thing as decency, respect to other's wishes and common courtesy. I think there should be a law that says if a person does not wishes to be photographed or video recorded, the photographer/videographer should back off. I struggle with this when I look at other people's street photography shots and wonder if I would be willing to take them seeing as I don't want to be photographed myself. I'm not sure how you can enforce a law about being recorded in a public place, given how many government and private surveillance cameras are out there. You'd run into a really fuzzy area if a photographer set up a camera but had it take photos at random times or some other non-photographer driven trigger (say catch in focus) as to how this could be enforced.

02-24-2014, 12:11 PM	#6
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	Originally posted by MSL I struggle with this when I look at other people's street photography shots and wonder if I would be willing to take them seeing as I don't want to be photographed myself. I'm not sure how you can enforce a law about being recorded in a public place, given how many government and private surveillance cameras are out there. You'd run into a really fuzzy area if a photographer set up a camera but had it take photos at random times or some other non-photographer driven trigger (say catch in focus) as to how this could be enforced. Yes, is a gray area... but then again, video surveillance and someone that shoves a camera in your face are 2 different things... I believe that when someone ask you to not take a picture/video of their person, the person with the camera should lose any rights of taking picture of that person and just back off... public or not.

02-24-2014, 12:31 PM	#7
johnyates Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Saskatoon, SK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,345	I think this has a lot to do with a faulty recruitment process for the police. Being a good police officer takes a special kind of person, who could likely find a better job elsewhere. And then there are those who join the police because they like being able to bully.

02-24-2014, 12:52 PM	#8
MSL Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Greater Toronto Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,749	Originally posted by mrNewt I believe that when someone ask you to not take a picture/video of their person, the person with the camera should lose any rights of taking picture of that person and just back off... public or not. I agree and decency would get most people to act that way. I guess my point is that it is easy to ask the person with the 40mm lens because you'll be pretty sure they are aiming it at you (unless it is the XS ), but someone with a 200mm+ lens can shoot photos of people without them having a clue it is being done. A law needs to be broadly enforceable and written to avoid loopholes.

02-24-2014, 12:56 PM	#9
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	Originally posted by MSL I agree and decency would get most people to act that way. I guess my point is that it is easy to ask the person with the 40mm lens because you'll be pretty sure they are aiming it at you (unless it is the XS ), but someone with a 200mm+ lens can shoot photos of people without them having a clue it is being done. A law needs to be broadly enforceable and written to avoid loopholes. Well if you don't notice them because they are sniping you from across the city, is OK I guess... until they find the picture online and they ask you to take it down. But when you do notice and you do ask them to not, then they should not.

02-24-2014, 01:08 PM	#10
Joel B Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Barnett MO. Photos: Albums Posts: 2,336	Originally posted by monochrome Seems to me the only time we here of this kind of overreaction to casually photographing someone is when the subject is a celebrity or a law enforcement officer. I wonder in both cases what they're doing that they're afraid someone might know about. Actually the only time we see this with law enforcement is when there is visual evidence of the act! Otherwise it is not news and the victim is arrested, booked, and sent for trial without anything to back a claim of brutality! This situation happens all too often even here in little old Des Moines!! Video or Photo use a great to keep Police honest!! So keep up the good work even if harassed! We just had a groom on his wedding day get pummeled by a Policeman who was hired off duty by the family!! The groom got a merry barrel of cash for that one!

02-24-2014, 01:15 PM	#11
geru2000 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Watertown, NY Posts: 267	New York state privacy laws do not restrict photographing in public places including, people, places,or things unless the photographer is going to use that photo commercially. Personally if I were doing street photography I'd ask permission, however it isn't required by NYS law.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-24-2014, 01:35 PM - 1 Like	#12
johnyates Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Saskatoon, SK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,345	Originally posted by geru2000 Personally if I were doing street photography I'd ask permission, however it isn't required by NYS law. This was not "street" photography: Quote: Shawn Randall Thomas, a New York photographer, was approached by NYPD officer Efrain Rojas when he noticed Thomas filming another officer's interaction with a turnstile jumper in a subway station. This was more like news photography.

02-24-2014, 01:38 PM	#13
MSL Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Greater Toronto Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,749	Originally posted by mrNewt Well if you don't notice them because they are sniping you from across the city, is OK I guess... until they find the picture online and they ask you to take it down. But when you do notice and you do ask them to not, then they should not. Originally posted by Joel B Actually the only time we see this with law enforcement is when there is visual evidence of the act! Otherwise it is not news and the victim is arrested, booked, and sent for trial without anything to back a claim of brutality! This situation happens all too often even here in little old Des Moines!! Video or Photo use a great to keep Police honest!! So keep up the good work even if harassed! We just had a groom on his wedding day get pummeled by a Policeman who was hired off duty by the family!! The groom got a merry barrel of cash for that one! Asking someone to take things down is tedious, time consuming and ineffective given how quickly things replicate on the internet. This discussion makes me think back to when I a friend took me up to show me one of the fancy hotels in Jasper, Alberta. A young, newlywed couple happen to pull up in a horse drawn carriage and suddenly all these tourists come streaming out of their tour bus and start taking pictures of the couple. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry for the poor couple who were now a part of dozens of travel albums.

02-24-2014, 01:40 PM	#14
Joel B Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Barnett MO. Photos: Albums Posts: 2,336	Sort of like putting monitors in news rooms to keep tabs on the industry!!! WARNING! WARNING! Danger Will Robinson!! There is a reason why photo journalists are covered under the First Amendment! Do not let that right be taken away from you!!!!

02-24-2014, 01:45 PM	#15
Woolcott Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: London Posts: 79	Both of these guys need to learn how to handle conflict resolution. Cop was unprofessional and unclear of the law, the guy filming was spoiling for a fight. p.s. I'm not sure about the US, but the law on video/photographing police officers in the course of their duties is a bit of a grey area here in the UK.