Schools requiring Senior Portrait from specific photog

gryhnd · 06-20-2014, 09:54 AM

First time I've run into this, but I've certainly heard about it. A parent wants me to take their senior's portrait for the yearbook. School says they have to use the photographer/company they have chosen (I assume that means contracted-with).

Is that legal? Or as Barbossa said, they are "...more what you call guidelines, than actual rules ."

I've yet to contact the school about it (just came up today) and have just started googling around. In the meantime I am looking for comments from others who have been in the same situation.

TYIA

JinDesu · 06-20-2014, 09:57 AM

I would assume that if the school is producing the yearbook, they have the final say in what photos go into that yearbook, no? The schools in my area just bring you into the gym where they have the photographers set up and it's a queue process.

gryhnd · 06-20-2014, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by JinDesu

I would assume that if the school is producing the yearbook, they have the final say in what photos go into that yearbook, no?

Well that's what I'm asking. Do they really? I know they would like it that way.

The families' pay for the yearbook and I presume the production line portrait, so it's not as if the school is giving it away. If they were then sure.

JinDesu · 06-20-2014, 10:12 AM

If the families are paying for the yearbook to be produced, is there a form that they signed to submit the money? Or is it out of the tuition fees? In my case, the school produced the yearbook and we payed for it ahead of time to get our copy. Effectively we bought a product, so we wouldn't get any say in the photographs.

**jatrax** · 06-20-2014, 11:03 AM

As far as I know any of the schools I went to or my children went to required you to go to 'their' photographer. Sometimes had him come in and setup in the school, sometimes had forms to fill out to schedule sessions. But that is just one school district, no idea if they are all that way.

I would ask the school if they allow other photographers. My guess is that the rule is in place so all pictures meet a certain standard and perhaps certain 'look'. I can guess they would get some pretty awful snapshots if they just allowed anyone to be the 'photographer'. You might see what it would take to get approved.

Mistlefoot · 06-20-2014, 11:30 AM

Is it legal?

You mean to say that you want to force someone to put a picture that you took into a book they are producing?

gryhnd · 06-20-2014, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by Mistlefoot

Is it legal?

You mean to say that you want to force someone to put a picture that you took into a book they are producing?

Sarcasm. Always helpful.

Asking an honest question because I haven't run into it before.

Mistlefoot · 06-20-2014, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by gryhnd

Sarcasm. Always helpful.

Asking an honest question because I haven't run into it before.

gyhnd: It was not meant to be disrespectful, but rather utilize Socratic Logic to point to in what I saw as obvious....

**monochrome** · 06-20-2014, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by JinDesu

I would assume that if the school is producing the yearbook, they have the final say in what photos go into that yearbook, no? The schools in my area just bring you into the gym where they have the photographers set up and it's a queue process.

My daughter was Editor-in-Chief of her High School Yearbook, a nationally-competitive Yearbook that won a national Pace Award her year. She was Photography Editor the prior year. Journalism was taught as a vocation at her school (as were Art, Theater and Music) and the Yearbook and Newspaper were the hands-on laboratories that proved the classroom instruction.

The Yearbook required photos be taken by their contract photographer and that photos be taken at the contract photographer's studio on one of three studio sets. Families / students had a choice of 15 - 20 Proofs to select for the Senior Photo - but the Yearbook would not print anything submitted from outside the system. The proofs weren't just head-shots. They included most shots and angles including full-body. The student would either select a contract photo or print a gray box on the page if there was no photo taken. We actually hated the photos ourselves - but that was the deal. The idea of the gray box was so unpleasant that 634 Seniors mad appointments at the studio and had their portraits done.

The Yearbook photo was no charge to the family. Prints were available separately, of course.

The Yearbook insisted they retain editorial control over the content and design standards of the book, including personal portrait photos. Their policy was, and is, anyone may refuse to participate and may decline to purchase a Yearbook, so the Yearbook may set standards and Editorial and Content Guidelines and Rules.

Over the years there seems to be this argument about every third year and the School District has never lost the argument yet (even to the point of responding to a legal inquiry).

I believe this is common practice, just as Newspaper retains content rights.

OregonJim · 06-20-2014, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by gryhnd

A parent wants me to take their senior's portrait for the yearbook. School says they have to use the photographer/company they have chosen

If the school allowed this, it would open the door for everyone's Uncle Bob with a camera to submit his 'artsy' shot for the yearbook.

I think the school and the contracted photographer have the right and responsibility to control consistency in the presentation of the work.

**monochrome** · 06-20-2014, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by OregonJim

If the school allowed this, it would open the door for everyone's Uncle Bob with a camera to submit his 'artsy' shot for the yearbook.

I think the school and the contracted photographer have the right and responsibility to control consistency in the presentation of the work.

And they have some control over the amount of skin visible in the photo.*

*I'm sorry, that neckline is too low. Here's a black shroud.

!@!@@#$#$^$%^&

You know the rules. Wear the shroud or come back two weeks Tuesday at 2:15.

stevebrot · 06-20-2014, 01:05 PM

It depends on the school and Senior portraits are often a special case. The usual case is for the school to contract for the yearbook portraits. It makes no difference whether the cost of the yearbook is borne directly by the student or is a benefit of enrollment. What is important to the yearbook staff is that the photos be of consistent quality and appearance and are available in time to meet the publisher's deadlines.

Senior portraits are often treated differently with the option for the student to provide a suitable photo that meets the yearbook staff's requirements. At my daughter's high school this was a big deal. She retained a local portrait photographer and did a half-day shoot on location at the Oregon coast several hours to the west of town. When all was said and done, she had a portfolio from which one shot was selected for the yearbook. Other poses were used for gifts to family members. The yearbook shot was per spec. The rest of the portfolio photos were more creative.

So, the short answer is:

The school makes the rules
If parents want to gift the graduate with a portrait session, that is their prerogative
If the school opts to accept/reject an outside portrait, that is also their prerogative. Parents/graduates should not expect the school to automatically accept an outside photo for the yearbook regardless of quality or good taste. See first point above.

Steve

(...worked on yearbook staff two years of high school...was part of the decision to substitute a photo of a primate for a student that was uncooperative in the yearbook photo process...)

**Miguel** · 06-20-2014, 02:38 PM

Now you can be hired by the family to produce an alternative or really, authoritative, set of portraits of their daughter for the real world. I'm sure you have way more flexibility than the contract photographer.

M

penguinsoda · 06-20-2014, 06:21 PM

What the parents could do is let the school contracted photographer do the yearbook shot... they take everyones pic specifically for the yearbook, and families have the option of buying or not buying prints of what they take. The student will have a standard, cookie cutter, just like everyone else's yearbook mug shot, then they (the parents) can hire you do do outside senior shots that they will purchase and send to relatives with the graduation announcements etc. They yearbook has to use the stock head shot for the yearbook, but parents have the right to go outside of the contracted photographers if they want different portraits.

magkelly · 06-20-2014, 09:54 PM

Often this depends upon the school. But most want their photographer at least for the standard class head shots. Other senior pics may be in the yearbook though for clubs, prom and so forth and some of that stuff can be self submitted. But I've hardly ever seen a senior head shot for the yearbook that wasn't done by their person. A lot of seniors will do senior pics of their own though. For themselves, in formal dress and cap and gown. It's not the one that always gets in the book but they still want a nice set to commemorate their last year, to send out with graduation announcements etc.

06-20-2014, 09:54 AM	#1
gryhnd Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Southeastern MA Posts: 240	Schools requiring Senior Portrait from specific photog First time I've run into this, but I've certainly heard about it. A parent wants me to take their senior's portrait for the yearbook. School says they have to use the photographer/company they have chosen (I assume that means contracted-with). Is that legal? Or as Barbossa said, they are "...more what you call guidelines, than actual rules ." I've yet to contact the school about it (just came up today) and have just started googling around. In the meantime I am looking for comments from others who have been in the same situation. TYIA

06-20-2014, 12:47 PM	#9
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by JinDesu I would assume that if the school is producing the yearbook, they have the final say in what photos go into that yearbook, no? The schools in my area just bring you into the gym where they have the photographers set up and it's a queue process. My daughter was Editor-in-Chief of her High School Yearbook, a nationally-competitive Yearbook that won a national Pace Award her year. She was Photography Editor the prior year. Journalism was taught as a vocation at her school (as were Art, Theater and Music) and the Yearbook and Newspaper were the hands-on laboratories that proved the classroom instruction. The Yearbook required photos be taken by their contract photographer and that photos be taken at the contract photographer's studio on one of three studio sets. Families / students had a choice of 15 - 20 Proofs to select for the Senior Photo - but the Yearbook would not print anything submitted from outside the system. The proofs weren't just head-shots. They included most shots and angles including full-body. The student would either select a contract photo or print a gray box on the page if there was no photo taken. We actually hated the photos ourselves - but that was the deal. The idea of the gray box was so unpleasant that 634 Seniors mad appointments at the studio and had their portraits done. The Yearbook photo was no charge to the family. Prints were available separately, of course. The Yearbook insisted they retain editorial control over the content and design standards of the book, including personal portrait photos. Their policy was, and is, anyone may refuse to participate and may decline to purchase a Yearbook, so the Yearbook may set standards and Editorial and Content Guidelines and Rules. Over the years there seems to be this argument about every third year and the School District has never lost the argument yet (even to the point of responding to a legal inquiry). I believe this is common practice, just as Newspaper retains content rights. Last edited by monochrome; 06-21-2014 at 07:23 AM.

06-20-2014, 01:05 PM	#12
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	It depends on the school and Senior portraits are often a special case. The usual case is for the school to contract for the yearbook portraits. It makes no difference whether the cost of the yearbook is borne directly by the student or is a benefit of enrollment. What is important to the yearbook staff is that the photos be of consistent quality and appearance and are available in time to meet the publisher's deadlines. Senior portraits are often treated differently with the option for the student to provide a suitable photo that meets the yearbook staff's requirements. At my daughter's high school this was a big deal. She retained a local portrait photographer and did a half-day shoot on location at the Oregon coast several hours to the west of town. When all was said and done, she had a portfolio from which one shot was selected for the yearbook. Other poses were used for gifts to family members. The yearbook shot was per spec. The rest of the portfolio photos were more creative. So, the short answer is: The school makes the rules If parents want to gift the graduate with a portrait session, that is their prerogative If the school opts to accept/reject an outside portrait, that is also their prerogative. Parents/graduates should not expect the school to automatically accept an outside photo for the yearbook regardless of quality or good taste. See first point above. Steve (...worked on yearbook staff two years of high school...was part of the decision to substitute a photo of a primate for a student that was uncooperative in the yearbook photo process...)

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06-20-2014, 09:57 AM	#2
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	I would assume that if the school is producing the yearbook, they have the final say in what photos go into that yearbook, no? The schools in my area just bring you into the gym where they have the photographers set up and it's a queue process.

06-20-2014, 10:03 AM	#3
gryhnd Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Southeastern MA Posts: 240 Original Poster	Originally posted by JinDesu I would assume that if the school is producing the yearbook, they have the final say in what photos go into that yearbook, no? Well that's what I'm asking. Do they really? I know they would like it that way. The families' pay for the yearbook and I presume the production line portrait, so it's not as if the school is giving it away. If they were then sure.

06-20-2014, 10:12 AM	#4
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	If the families are paying for the yearbook to be produced, is there a form that they signed to submit the money? Or is it out of the tuition fees? In my case, the school produced the yearbook and we payed for it ahead of time to get our copy. Effectively we bought a product, so we wouldn't get any say in the photographs.

06-20-2014, 11:03 AM	#5
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	As far as I know any of the schools I went to or my children went to required you to go to 'their' photographer. Sometimes had him come in and setup in the school, sometimes had forms to fill out to schedule sessions. But that is just one school district, no idea if they are all that way. I would ask the school if they allow other photographers. My guess is that the rule is in place so all pictures meet a certain standard and perhaps certain 'look'. I can guess they would get some pretty awful snapshots if they just allowed anyone to be the 'photographer'. You might see what it would take to get approved.

06-20-2014, 11:30 AM	#6
Mistlefoot Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia Photos: Albums Posts: 328	Is it legal? You mean to say that you want to force someone to put a picture that you took into a book they are producing?

06-20-2014, 11:44 AM	#7
gryhnd Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Southeastern MA Posts: 240 Original Poster	Originally posted by Mistlefoot Is it legal? You mean to say that you want to force someone to put a picture that you took into a book they are producing? Sarcasm. Always helpful. Asking an honest question because I haven't run into it before.

06-20-2014, 11:49 AM	#8
Mistlefoot Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia Photos: Albums Posts: 328	Originally posted by gryhnd Sarcasm. Always helpful. Asking an honest question because I haven't run into it before. gyhnd: It was not meant to be disrespectful, but rather utilize Socratic Logic to point to in what I saw as obvious....

06-20-2014, 01:00 PM	#10
OregonJim Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon Posts: 1,327	Originally posted by gryhnd A parent wants me to take their senior's portrait for the yearbook. School says they have to use the photographer/company they have chosen If the school allowed this, it would open the door for everyone's Uncle Bob with a camera to submit his 'artsy' shot for the yearbook. I think the school and the contracted photographer have the right and responsibility to control consistency in the presentation of the work.

06-20-2014, 01:04 PM	#11
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by OregonJim If the school allowed this, it would open the door for everyone's Uncle Bob with a camera to submit his 'artsy' shot for the yearbook. I think the school and the contracted photographer have the right and responsibility to control consistency in the presentation of the work. And they have some control over the amount of skin visible in the photo.* *I'm sorry, that neckline is too low. Here's a black shroud. !@!@@#$#$^$%^& You know the rules. Wear the shroud or come back two weeks Tuesday at 2:15.

06-20-2014, 02:38 PM	#13
Miguel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Seattle Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,743	Now you can be hired by the family to produce an alternative or really, authoritative, set of portraits of their daughter for the real world. I'm sure you have way more flexibility than the contract photographer. M

06-20-2014, 06:21 PM	#14
penguinsoda Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: So Cal Desert Posts: 124	What the parents could do is let the school contracted photographer do the yearbook shot... they take everyones pic specifically for the yearbook, and families have the option of buying or not buying prints of what they take. The student will have a standard, cookie cutter, just like everyone else's yearbook mug shot, then they (the parents) can hire you do do outside senior shots that they will purchase and send to relatives with the graduation announcements etc. They yearbook has to use the stock head shot for the yearbook, but parents have the right to go outside of the contracted photographers if they want different portraits.

06-20-2014, 09:54 PM	#15
magkelly Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,901	Often this depends upon the school. But most want their photographer at least for the standard class head shots. Other senior pics may be in the yearbook though for clubs, prom and so forth and some of that stuff can be self submitted. But I've hardly ever seen a senior head shot for the yearbook that wasn't done by their person. A lot of seniors will do senior pics of their own though. For themselves, in formal dress and cap and gown. It's not the one that always gets in the book but they still want a nice set to commemorate their last year, to send out with graduation announcements etc.