[RonHendriks1966]

Yeah, I am sure there will be lots of posts about great deals for Canon products for Christmas as they dump inventories at COSTCO and BESTBUY.

This is a serious problem for the whole camera industrie. There is a declining market for more then two years and still no sign of reaching rockbottom. Lots of inventory with different manufactuars and down the sales system, from distributers to stores. Pricedumping to clear stocks is something that ruins the market. That is something that has effect on all players in the market. Also Ricoh Imaging needs to deal with this changing market.

I was at the opening of the new Media Markt in Eindhoven and they had some special offers. A double kit Nikon D5100 with 15-55 and 50-200 for only 444 euro! No Pentax in the store, but the same package (I know they are very different, but not for all customers) K-S1 is 799 euro. Try and make some sales in that market.

There are signs that de economy also over the coming two years would be slow overhere in Europe.

Smart production by Ricoh with not to many inventory could be the difference to stand out.

[jsherman999]

It's called the ignore list. Just click the username and click ignore. Makes the forums seem so much nicer.

Personally I think very few - if anyone - really adhere's to their ignore list. Maybe you alone. I suspect most people succumb to curiosity (I know I have and gave up the concept of ignore lists a couple years ago, I always 'cheated' anyway.)

On a moderated forum, are they really that necessary? Someone saying something about photography or the industry or technology that's so objectionable you just can't bear to read it?

I find thin skins more objectionable than anything Ogl has ever posted that I've seen. He's a long-time forum member who sometimes posts interesting if direct observations. I for one am glad he's around.

[cali92rs]

I find thin skins more objectionable than anything Ogl has ever posted that I've seen. He's a long-time forum member who sometimes posts interesting if direct observations. I for one am glad he's around.

How fun would a forum be if everyone agreed?
It's not like the guy put down someone's mother or religion...he put down a multi-billion dollar corporation for goodness-sake.
Let's stop pretending like we have to coddle them. They can (and will) do what they want to do with or without our undying allegiance.

[Rondec]

Which FF camera would that be, the one that outsells the K3 or the one that outsold the K5? [COLOR="Silver"]

The issue from Canon/Nikon stand point is not absolute sales, which crush sales of companies like Pentax and Olympus and Fuji. The issue is production versus sales, which is quite problematic. When you over produce products and then have to discount them to clear inventory before your next release, that can be an issue.

Ricoh can easily make a profit selling a tenth the cameras that Nikon sells. In fact, too much demand could be problematic for them. This is a good thing -- if Ricoh had to sell as many full frame cameras as there are D610s that get sold in order to turn a profit, we wouldn't see a full frame Pentax ever.

[monochrome]

I find thin skins more objectionable than anything Ogl has ever posted that I've seen

There are plenty of members who come into just about any and every thread possible and post the same darned thing, over and over and over.

[normhead]

How fun would a forum be if everyone agreed?
It's not like the guy put down someone's mother or religion...he put down a multi-billion dollar corporation for goodness-sake.
Let's stop pretending like we have to coddle them. They can (and will) do what they want to do with or without our undying allegiance.

Well no, he actually put down the person who made the post. He implied they had paid to put it on the forum as if it were an advertisement. There's are a lot of people here who seem to hate any Pentax user who is happy with their camera. The only folks who support ogl seem to be folks of similar mind.

[jsherman999]

The issue from Canon/Nikon stand point is not absolute sales, which crush sales of companies like Pentax and Olympus and Fuji. The issue is production versus sales, which is quite problematic. When you over produce products and then have to discount them to clear inventory before your next release, that can be an issue.

Ricoh can easily make a profit selling a tenth the cameras that Nikon sells. In fact, too much demand could be problematic for them. This is a good thing -- if Ricoh had to sell as many full frame cameras as there are D610s that get sold in order to turn a profit, we wouldn't see a full frame Pentax ever.

The production/inventory vs. sales issue is just a visible (and sometimes temporary) indicator of the same problem affecting Pentax as well, and it's simply more visible because of that higher volume. A Nikon or Canon could re-fit themselves into a lower-volume company if they wanted or needed to.

I see nothing fundamental affecting Canon or Nikon that doesn't also affect Pentax - it's just that the Canon/Nikon issues are much more visible.

In other words there's really no scenario in which Nikon or Canon would need to declare bankruptcy or divest/close it's DSLR business that Pentax would survive... at least a Pentax that still sells DSLRs.

[ogl]

ogl tends to be more Russian than some .

Don't you think that mass media are mercenary in any country?

[Edgar_in_Indy]

There's are a lot of people here who seem to hate any Pentax user who is happy with their camera. The only folks who support ogl seem to be folks of similar mind.

What??? To me, this is a misrepresentation of the situation, since that is not what happened in this thread, at all. And I don't remember anybody being "hated" on here for liking their Pentax camera.

Just because somebody doesn't play along in putting a happy face on Pentax's business situation and product decisions, it doesn't mean that they don't want people to be happy with their Pentax cameras. I loved my K-x, and it made me sell my Canon t2i (which had just recently been released and was the hot camera at the time). And I like my K-30 even more. But at the same time, I'm frustrated with some of the decisions I have seen Pentax making in recent years.

I love my Pentax camera, and I like the brand, and I want to see the system continue to grow and flourish. So when somebody posts something like, "Hey look, Canon's profits declined! Hooray for Pentax!", I'm not going to automatically play along.

[ogl]

Well no, he actually put down the person who made the post. He implied they had paid to put it on the forum as if it were an advertisement. There's are a lot of people here who seem to hate any Pentax user who is happy with their camera. The only folks who support ogl seem to be folks of similar mind.

I never hate any people.... I try to love people. Don't pass, please, the desirable for reality.
Demonize me is rather silly method of discussing. My thoughts are FAR from what you write here....


My motto
Treat every person you meet today like they are the most important person in the world.

Or

Do to others what you want them to do to you


Imagine - you know nothing about me...about my personality.

The words in the forum means almost nothing if you want to know the real personality of man.
You consider all too serious.

[Edgar_in_Indy]

Do to others what you want them to do to you.

From a legal standpoint, enacting that philosophy could get somebody into A LOT of trouble.

[mecrox]

The production/inventory vs. sales issue is just a visible (and sometimes temporary) indicator of the same problem affecting Pentax as well, and it's simply more visible because of that higher volume. A Nikon or Canon could re-fit themselves into a lower-volume company if they wanted or needed to.

I see nothing fundamental affecting Canon or Nikon that doesn't also affect Pentax - it's just that the Canon/Nikon issues are much more visible.

In other words there's really no scenario in which Nikon or Canon would need to declare bankruptcy or divest/close it's DSLR business and Pentax would survive... at least a Pentax that still sells DSLRs.

Considering the sluggish picture of the world economy Canon paint in this report, they probably did quite well in fact. When I last looked their stock was about evens so I guess the verdict may be "they are as well as can be expected". And Canon point out that while compacts and the low end are taking a hammering, they are seeing "solid growth" in their higher-end camera products, singling out the 70D in this regard. And don't forget Canon have a phenomenal presence in dedicated video which some other camera companies are not in at all.

Fewer sales but higher unit price is a trend already very apparent. However, with everyone trying to pile into the same fairly narrow band of more upmarket cameras, things are likely get pretty tricky I'd have thought. There are only a limited number of sales to go round once you leave the low end behind. At this point ruthless $$$ marketing to get your sales in before the other guy has a chance hoves into view and Canon are pretty darn strong in this department

The vulnerable one out of Canon and Nikon is Nikon, at a guess. They've little to fall back on other than cameras and cameras provide most of their income. For Ricoh, cameras are a very minor part of their overall income. That's still true though to a far smaller extent with outfits like Olympus and Fuji - neither depends on camera sales for the majority of their income. As for Sony, I don't know how they make their figures work. They seem to keep on posting huge overall group losses.

The joker in the pack is China. If their economy starts to foobar, we'd all get a pretty nasty flu and especially so for any camera company more heavily exposed to it than others.

[micromacro]

You consider all too serious.

Actually, I like your point.
I shoot with my old second hand (or who knows how many hands) Pentax more often than with brand new Canon. Damn, and I'm doing that for free!
How about some modest reward from Ricoh? I agree to accept K5iis, or K-3.

[cali92rs]

The issue is production versus sales, which is quite problematic. When you over produce products and then have to discount them to clear inventory before your next release, that can be an issue.

Maybe the samething is going on with the K-3. The price they are at now is at fire sale levels, especially considering they just heavily discounted the price not too long ago.

[normhead]

Maybe the samething is going on with the K-3. The price they are at now is at fire sale levels, especially considering they just heavily discounted the price not too long ago.

When the price drops that fast it does make you wonder... although it could also be that they're willing to drop the price to keep the production line running. Without knowing what their inventory levels are it's hard to guess. Given how proud the Pentax exec at Photokina was, of the 3 week waiting period on a 645z, my guess is Pentax has really bought into the Apple model of no inventory, factory production matches sales within a few days. As the cost of setting up the production line is amortized over more and more cameras, the price should go down. If the camera is making a decent profit it doesn't matter what the price is, as long as you don't have a new model to sell. That's way better than over-producing and selling at less than cost, from a standpoint of company stability.

But the big picture is, If Canon only lost 1% of their profit... is that really that big a deal?