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12-22-2014, 03:50 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxian_tmb Quote
Like any other profession, often the people at the top are merely competent at their craft, but are outgoing, personable, and able to shamelessly "sell" themselves. I have seen a lot of people in my profession who are great at what they do, but don't have the personality to market and therefore ultimately fail.


I was raised with the maxim of "Doing good work is the best marketing; no one likes a braggart." Sadly, in today's global economy with 24/7 connectivity, and everyone yelling "look at me!; look at me!" that is sadly not the case any longer.
An artist/craftman/producer can be either a good marketing guy himself or delegate the task to a guy that would do that for him.

12-22-2014, 07:36 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
An artist/craftman/producer can be either a good marketing guy himself or delegate the task to a guy that would do that for him.
That is very true! One of the best things that ever happened to me was going to work for someone who understood that having a talent for marketing doesn't automatically come along with a talent for shooting. However, if a person is going to go into business for themselves, they need to have both talents.
12-23-2014, 09:32 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
An artist/craftman/producer can be either a good marketing guy himself or delegate the task to a guy that would do that for him.
Or they may not be interested in the monetary factor. We used to run a store where pottery and other art were part of the products we sold. With potters some of the better ones we dealt with were part timers who were not intetested in being full time because they had other jobs that were not only sucessful but that they enjoyed. Some of those that were sucessful in art did so based on name recognition because of their marketing.

I have never pushed sales and I photograph for myself so I do not even care if the subject would be of interst to others. I am sure I could sell some work if I made that effort, how much I do not know. But I have sold many times the number of pieces in my lifetime than did Vincent Van Gough

There are some local photographers whose work sell that I would not hang in my house and we have a wide range of art in our home. I think very little of their style but others do. Perhaps I suck as a consumer too

Last edited by redrockcoulee; 12-23-2014 at 09:33 AM. Reason: typo
12-23-2014, 12:52 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
Or they may not be interested in the monetary factor. We used to run a store where pottery and other art were part of the products we sold. With potters some of the better ones we dealt with were part timers who were not intetested in being full time because they had other jobs that were not only sucessful but that they enjoyed. Some of those that were sucessful in art did so based on name recognition because of their marketing.

I have never pushed sales and I photograph for myself so I do not even care if the subject would be of interst to others. I am sure I could sell some work if I made that effort, how much I do not know. But I have sold many times the number of pieces in my lifetime than did Vincent Van Gough

There are some local photographers whose work sell that I would not hang in my house and we have a wide range of art in our home. I think very little of their style but others do. Perhaps I suck as a consumer too
Of course but the question is if you need the money or not. for you, obviously not... So no need to care

12-23-2014, 05:24 PM   #65
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikAb-NYkseI#t=422

Neil Gaiman - Inspirational Commencement Speech at the University of the Arts 2012

Why you don't do it for the money.

Last edited by Winder; 12-23-2014 at 05:32 PM.
12-24-2014, 07:09 AM   #66
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12-24-2014, 08:21 PM   #67
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The post above is true enough. It's not just all about the money. If I wanted to market more and do weddings I could be making a lot more than I do. But after 30 years of pushing this product and that one for half a dozen bosses, most of which weren't worth a hoot, I am heartily sick of sales, of pushing a brand. I do what I have to do to sell my stuff, but only that much. I keep it pretty low key. Photography-wise I let my work talk for me. Clients do refer me mostly so far. So long as I can make my rent and utilities doing my photography and my craft stuff I'm pretty happy.

The only thing I ever worry about is getting really sick. Our new health care system didn't help my situation much. With my chronic condition the premiums were too much. Basically I ended up with a tax credit and not much else. I'm still lacking sufficient health insurance. I didn't have much photo work this week anyway and I'm done for now making stuff for my crafts shows this Winter so me having a bug didn't hurt my bottom line much. But if I ever got worse than I am now, had to be hospitalized I'd be so screwed. It would be nice to have a 200K cushion in the bank in case of hospitalization, but then again the stress of having to make it just might put me there...
12-25-2014, 05:51 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
The post above is true enough. It's not just all about the money. If I wanted to market more and do weddings I could be making a lot more than I do. But after 30 years of pushing this product and that one for half a dozen bosses, most of which weren't worth a hoot, I am heartily sick of sales, of pushing a brand. I do what I have to do to sell my stuff, but only that much. I keep it pretty low key. Photography-wise I let my work talk for me. Clients do refer me mostly so far. So long as I can make my rent and utilities doing my photography and my craft stuff I'm pretty happy.

The only thing I ever worry about is getting really sick. Our new health care system didn't help my situation much. With my chronic condition the premiums were too much. Basically I ended up with a tax credit and not much else. I'm still lacking sufficient health insurance. I didn't have much photo work this week anyway and I'm done for now making stuff for my crafts shows this Winter so me having a bug didn't hurt my bottom line much. But if I ever got worse than I am now, had to be hospitalized I'd be so screwed. It would be nice to have a 200K cushion in the bank in case of hospitalization, but then again the stress of having to make it just might put me there...
But maybe pay of better insurance ? I don't know your system because in France even if you don't make any money the system will pay for good share of day to day health expense and entirely for expensive health expense. It is not perfect as it doesn't work if you become fully dependant for the long run but still I saw it for my mother case. Well we were not lacking money, but for sure over the 5-6 years of her cancer, the total expenses where for more than €100000. Even just a single injection of drugs to flight it could be as high as 4000€. And we paid none of that. All was covered by social security. Everybody pay continoulsy a taxas part of their salary... You complain when you pay, but you do not complain when they provide your a new heart become your's doesn't work so well anymore. There no choice but at least it mostly fix such issue.

But I don't know, you could maybe get a better insurence no?


Last edited by Nicolas06; 12-25-2014 at 05:59 AM.
12-25-2014, 12:29 PM   #69
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12-25-2014, 12:30 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
But maybe pay of better insurance ? I don't know your system because in France even if you don't make any money the system will pay for good share of day to day health expense and entirely for expensive health expense. It is not perfect as it doesn't work if you become fully dependent for the long run but still I saw it for my mother case. Well we were not lacking money, but for sure over the 5-6 years of her cancer, the total expenses where for more than €100000. Even just a single injection of drugs to flight it could be as high as 4000€. And we paid none of that. All was covered by social security. Everybody pay continoulsy a taxas part of their salary... You complain when you pay, but you do not complain when they provide your a new heart become your's doesn't work so well anymore. There no choice but at least it mostly fix such issue.

But I don't know, you could maybe get a better insurence no?
I tried. But with my ongoing autoimmune condition thing the only two insurance plans I could get would have cost me more per month in payments than my rent. I can't be on welfare and the state program because I am self employed and they won't let me, also because I was on it for a while and I hit my limit for that. So I have to shop for insurance and the only companies so far willing to work with the Obamacare people they want more than my rent, per month, no kidding. The Obamacare thing it kind of works if you really chronic and poor and you can't work at all and if social security agrees that you can't. They work with you a lot more apparently if you can get SSD or SSI. But if you can't get it or you do want to be self employed and actually try to have a job and work when you can then you can't get hardly any help. I tried for several years to get SSD/SSI appeal after appeal. I got nowhere. 30 plus years of paying into it and I got nothing when I needed it. I finally stopped beating a dead horse and gave it up.

I have several autoimmune diseases, severe arthritis, particularly in my back, a folder 9 inches thick, several doctors saying I can't work a regular job anymore but I never got anything and the state cut me off after a time because their program is not meant to be permanent. The only way I could work at all was to make my own job. My Dad gave me the roof over my head when he moved. Otherwise I would not have it. It's not much of a roof, mobile home, and old one in bad shape, but it's mine. Car ditto, I got it when he stopped driving. I drive him now and own his old car.

I make my rent and that by doing crafts and selling them and by doing what photography jobs I can handle when I can get the work. I live on about $1200 a month most of the time. Use my plastic admittedly way too much. :P That's it. Some months I do get lucky and I make more but an insurance payment like that? I just can't even begin to make it. My insurance plan these days it's the local ER. They did give me a tax credit for what that's worth but basically the government plan thing it turned out to be pretty useless to me. I was not too happy with that. All that waiting and applying and I got nothing I could afford...
12-29-2014, 09:03 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
I live on about $1200 a month most of the time. Use my plastic admittedly way too much. :P That's it. Some months I do get lucky and I make more but an insurance payment like that?
obamacare guarantees that people get insurance regardless of pre-existing conditions, which is a huge improvement over the old system.

but as you mentioned it can be expensive for people who make middle-class money... but $1200 a month is poverty level, so most or all of your entire premium should be subsidized by obamacare.

at least that's how it works in california; ymmv, if you live in one of those republican states that refused to accept medicare subsidies, or whatever.

obamacare in cali bases it's rates off of household income, not individual income, so if you are living with someone who makes middle class income, it could be driving the cost of your premiums way up.

don't mean to derail this thread, i hope that your health improves.
12-29-2014, 09:58 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
obamacare guarantees that people get insurance regardless of pre-existing conditions, which is a huge improvement over the old system.

but as you mentioned it can be expensive for people who make middle-class money... but $1200 a month is poverty level, so most or all of your entire premium should be subsidized by obamacare.

at least that's how it works in california; ymmv, if you live in one of those republican states that refused to accept medicare subsidies, or whatever.

obamacare in cali bases it's rates off of household income, not individual income, so if you are living with someone who makes middle class income, it could be driving the cost of your premiums way up.

don't mean to derail this thread, i hope that your health improves.
How much you pay for your insurance will vary somewhat on where you live and what providers and doctors you can get. Insurance? Even with several autoimmune diseases I can still get it, if I want to pay 1.5 times my rent per month for the privilege. (I don't, can't.) For the record the folks at Obamacare offered me a full tax rebate credit and that was IT. I took it just so I don't have to pay a penalty. I went through the whole process twice, once with a counselor just to make sure I wasn't screwing it up somehow. Nope. Still not affordable. I ended up with the tax rebate and not much else. It's not just about income. Having a chronic condition can very much influence what you will pay because it influences what carriers will accept you. You can get insurance. They'll find you someone apparently, but there's no guarantee what you will pay for it and apparently Obamacare DOESN'T just subsidize care for everyone who is like me.

If you can qualify for SSD or SSI they make it a lot easier and will pay more for you, but I do not unfortunately and I have a self employment thing going on which apparently also complicates things a lot. The counselor said she's unfortunately seeing a lot of people here in my position and yeah actually, I believe I do live in one of "those" states. Liberal it definitely ain't. Right now I can't just leave. Believe me I would if I could. Living here just sucks for me, in SO many ways, but I'm taking care of my Dad who's pretty old. I am his only caretaker. The rest of his kids would not do this. They'd just put him in a home which neither he nor I will allow.

I can't leave while the old man lives and breathes because he just loves this stupid state, all the heat and sun, and all the conservative people who annoy me all to heck usually. He won't move to suit me. I kid him though that he won't be in his grave a month and I'll be packed up and gone and I am serious too. There will be long skid marks on the driveway, lol. Honestly he's so old I don't expect to be here for more a few more years. He's had a few strokes already. He's doing okay but he's not in the best health. It's the right thing to do. He's not the best Dad sometimes he can be a cranky old pighead actually. The older he gets the more it feels like I am raising HIM. He's got the manners of a bratty 2 year old and a very entitled somewhat bigoted attitude besides, but he is my only living parent at this point.

I will not just abandon him in his declining years. I want him to be happy for the time he has left. I want him to stay in his own house for as long as he can. But when he's gone, so am I. I am outta here, as they say, probably out to WA because I have friends there and likely could manage okay out there where I am thinking of going. Things will change a lot out there, for the better I hope...
12-30-2014, 11:44 AM - 1 Like   #73
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EDIT: ok, i just found the bare minimum income for the subsidy is $11,670 for one person filing single, in a state with no expanded medicad coverage:
https://www.healthcare.gov/lower-costs/qualifying-for-lower-costs/

QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
How much you pay for your insurance will vary somewhat on where you live and what providers and doctors you can get. Insurance? Even with several autoimmune diseases I can still get it, if I want to pay 1.5 times my rent per month for the privilege.
"Obamacare bars insurers from denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions, or physical or mental illnesses or conditions that existed before coverage began. Insurers also can no longer refuse to pay for otherwise-covered medical care and services due to a pre-existing condition or charge you more because of a pre-existing condition in the family."
Obamacare and You: If You Have a Pre-Existing Condition | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

when i filled out my obamacare application on the california state site, i don't remember it asking about pre-existing conditions, age was the only factor.

one of these links might help? Obamacare: Six Tools to Make You a Smarter Health-Care Shopper - Businessweek

"How Medicaid expansion works
The Affordable Care Act provides states with additional federal funding to expand their Medicaid programs to cover adults under 65 with income up to 133% of the federal poverty level. (Because of the way this is calculated, it’s effectively 138% of the federal poverty level.) Children (18 and under) are eligible up to that income level or higher in all states.
This means that in states that have expanded Medicaid, free or low-cost health coverage is available to people with incomes below a certain level regardless of disability, family status, financial resources, and other factors that are usually taken into account in Medicaid eligibility decisions.
First, find out if your state is expanding Medicaid. (Select the question “Is my state expanding Medicaid?”)"
https://www.healthcare.gov/medicaid-chip/medicaid-expansion-and-you/

here is a list of the states that didn't expand medicare, if you live in one of those states, ymmv
Current Status of State Medicaid Expansion Decisions | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

Last edited by osv; 12-30-2014 at 12:21 PM.
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