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12-10-2014, 11:36 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by emergo Quote

Have you considered that people are frustrated because they love the Pentax brand for those and many more reasons, and they are concerned that the brand may disappear if it doesn't keep abreast of the times and trends? Why else would they be so passionate about their Pentax dream camera? They love the brand and they want to see it continue. They don't want to leave it.

If you follow the logic that Pentax should not offer products similar to what other manufacturers offer, then they shouldn't bother offering any SLR, APSC or otherwise, as Canon, Nikon and others offer those too. They shouldn't offer any high quality compacts, or rugged trail cameras. They should throw out all their products, except the 645, and maybe the Q.

we can't fault people for their enthusiasm and passion for the brand. It may sound like a broken record at times, and there is no way to please everyone, but we have to let the dreamers dream.

but hey, that's just my opinion. and that's all this is in the end anyway, right?
I totally agree with this.

Some people says ''change the system if you don't like it'', as changing the system is as easy as changing a shirt. Is not, at least for most of us. It's like saying that money grows on trees. And the financial point is not the only one.

I love my camera. It's the third Pentax DSLR I have (had), in a row. I am to be blamed that I want more from Pentax? That, at least, I want to know a direction? Not a catchphrase like ''filling the gaps''

After all, Pentax is not only a Ricoh brand, but is MY photo system, and I care about it. I put my passion, my time, my money in it. And I want to know that it has a future.


Last edited by JimmyDranox; 12-10-2014 at 11:52 PM.
12-10-2014, 11:41 PM   #47
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Based on RP's KS-1 ad on their FB page today, they're going straight back to the gender politics of 1952.

https://www.facebook.com/RicohImaging/photos/a.173724382692.132787.101083642...517693/?type=1

The ladies will love that pink or yellow camera!

SMH

The criticism is a bit tongue-in-cheek on my part, but really, after that kerfuffle over the 'accidental' image problem a few weeks or so back, you'd think their Marketing personnel would be more cautious.

Now, excuse me while I go get my fiance one of these while she puts her hair up in rolls and makes an aspic jelly while wearing a polka dot dress and high heels.
12-11-2014, 02:38 AM - 2 Likes   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by emergo Quote
I cannot agree. I have used many different brands throughout the years - not Sony/Minolta, although that A7 seems interesting - and I find that Pentax makes an exceptional camera. High quality products, very well laid out controls, easy to use, great menu system, limited primes, etc.

Have you considered that people are frustrated because they love the Pentax brand for those and many more reasons, and they are concerned that the brand may disappear if it doesn't keep abreast of the times and trends? Why else would they be so passionate about their Pentax dream camera? They love the brand and they want to see it continue. They don't want to leave it.

If you follow the logic that Pentax should not offer products similar to what other manufacturers offer, then they shouldn't bother offering any SLR, APSC or otherwise, as Canon, Nikon and others offer those too. They shouldn't offer any high quality compacts, or rugged trail cameras. They should throw out all their products, except the 645, and maybe the Q.

Can you imagine how amazing it would have been if a concept such as the A7 was produced by Pentax, with their quality and usability baked right in? It could have been a game changer for the company. Or imagine that Pentax joined the MIcro 4/3 group of manufacturers. Have you ever used one of Olympus' M43 cameras? the menu system alone is enough to drive you crazy, but that system has real advantages. a Pentax M43 would be amazing.

we can't fault people for their enthusiasm and passion for the brand. It may sound like a broken record at times, and there is no way to please everyone, but we have to let the dreamers dream.

but hey, that's just my opinion. and that's all this is in the end anyway, right?
That's not it. K-mount products like the K-3 are definitely Pentax, and nobody's logic (but a strawman ) is asking for its removal from the line-up. Pentax is traditionally a SLR brand, and SLRs are still the most important part. Pentax making K-mount DSLR is Pentax.

But some people are asking Pentax to stop being Pentax and become a Sony/Olympus/Samsung/whatever clone, hoping... I don't know what they could be hoping for. Perhaps lower prices. Perhaps full compatibility with their lenses. Perhaps they don't know it themselves. Anyway, those demands are unreasonable and disregard the Pentaxians who likes Pentax (instead of Sony/Olympus/whatever).
The A7 has a number of compromises (e.g. build quality, ergonomics) and special know-how in building ultra compact electronic devices, and I don't see how Pentax could clone it and still get a "Pentax" product. You can't have a Pentax and a Sony in the same product.
The m4/3 is nothing amazing, on the contrary, it's a compromise too, a sensor which is a bit too small for no real benefits. Why would Pentax switch from APS-C to m4/3? It would help them do what, support a competitor's mount?

Summarizing, such requests are all over the place - and they will never stop, there will always be another brand to copy. "Pentax, be Sony!". "Pentax, be Olympus!". "Pentax, be Samsung, too!" "Hey, Pentax! You weren't Fuji this week! It's Fuji's turn!". How about "Pentax, be Pentax"? Is it that bad?

---------- Post added 11-12-14 at 11:39 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I totally agree with this.
[...]
I love my camera.
How would you like if you had to change the system (not necessarily the brand) to something completely different, because Pentax got crazy and decided to become a Sony clone?
12-11-2014, 03:00 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But some people are asking Pentax to stop being Pentax and become a Sony/Olympus/Samsung/whatever clone, hoping... I don't know what they could be hoping for. Perhaps lower prices. Perhaps full compatibility with their lenses. Perhaps they don't know it themselves. Anyway, those demands are unreasonable and disregard the Pentaxians who likes Pentax (instead of Sony/Olympus/whatever).
The A7 has a number of compromises (e.g. build quality, ergonomics) and special know-how in building ultra compact electronic devices, and I don't see how Pentax could clone it and still get a "Pentax" product. You can't have a Pentax and a Sony in the same product.
The m4/3 is nothing amazing, on the contrary, it's a compromise too, a sensor which is a bit too small for no real benefits. Why would Pentax switch from APS-C to m4/3? It would help them do what, support a competitor's mount?

Summarizing, such requests are all over the place - and they will never stop, there will always be another brand to copy. "Pentax, be Sony!". "Pentax, be Olympus!". "Pentax, be Samsung, too!" "Hey, Pentax! You weren't Fuji this week! It's Fuji's turn!". How about "Pentax, be Pentax"? Is it that bad?
But everybody is asking: "Pentax, be Pentax." (again)

Traditionally, Pentax was always very innovating. Who pioneered the SLR in Japan? Who brought 35mm format to the common people? The LX? Who made best use of IBIS and made its customers benifit from it the most? Tiny ltd lenses, the smallest DSLR, WR, etc... We can go on and on...

Suddenly it stopped and other brands took over that role. Pentax is currently only expanding on their innovations from the past. Upgrading a sensor here, some better AF there, but nothing new.

What does this thing look like to you guys:


12-11-2014, 03:22 AM   #50
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In case you didn't notice, that "rumor" is completely made up, and the rendering is fake. So it's all wishful thinking... to a world where Sony and Sony clones are the only option (and of course, there's no room for Pentax in their imaginary world).
What's wrong with those people?
12-11-2014, 03:57 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
In case you didn't notice, that "rumor" is completely made up, and the rendering is fake. So it's all wishful thinking... to a world where Sony and Sony clones are the only option (and of course, there's no room for Pentax in their imaginary world).
What's wrong with those people?
Yes, it says artist rendering right there in the link. Your point? I don't think anybody doubts the rumor that Canon, and probably Nikon, will have an aswer to the Sony's LX-D. (A7II and A9)
12-11-2014, 04:06 AM   #52
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I doubt Sony will ever make an "LX-D".

12-11-2014, 04:36 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I doubt Sony will ever make an "LX-D".
Lets see...
- FF, check
- Waiste level viewfinder, check
- Configurable eye level VF, check
- FF format, check
- Optional completely functioning mirrorbox with different mount, check.

You're right, it's much more then any imagined LX-D. Point is, Pentax didn't do it, Sony had to.

Exactly the point of this thread. Pentax was the biggest innovator. Even in the digital era, up untill 2010. Where are they going? If I have to judge from their most recent performance: A boring new K-2, with 28mp APS-C sensor and slightly improved AF in about a year or three.
12-11-2014, 04:49 AM   #54
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There has been negativity regarding Pentax's future for years. And it has been discussed here many many times also. The smaller market share does not mean the brand is dying. Whether Pentax offers something that the competition doesn't becomes a more relative than absolute aspect, since nowadays digital photography technology is so advanced that there is a greater effect of the law of diminishing returns in terms of IQ and responsiveness. So what is left is more ergonomics and build than functionality. I'm not even going to mention format, because this again is more personal preference. But I don't seen Pentax crumbling just because it does not bridge the gap between APS-C and MF in time for the world not to lose hope. The DA Ltds on Pentax APS-C cameras, the Q-system, and the MF offerings are pretty hard to match.
12-11-2014, 05:03 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Yes, it says artist rendering right there in the link. Your point? I don't think anybody doubts the rumor that Canon, and probably Nikon, will have an aswer to the Sony's LX-D. (A7II and A9)
I do.
12-11-2014, 05:15 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
There has been negativity regarding Pentax's future for years.
You do realise that that's a bad thing, right?


QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
And it has been discussed here many many times also. The smaller market share does not mean the brand is dying.
Whether Pentax offers something that the competition doesn't becomes a more relative than absolute aspect, since nowadays digital photography technology is so advanced that there is a greater effect of the law of diminishing returns in terms of IQ and responsiveness. So what is left is more ergonomics and build than functionality.
Agreed, all things being equal, ergonomics, UI and personal preference are what's left... But all things are not equal, are they?
12-11-2014, 06:20 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Lets see...
- FF, check
- Waiste level viewfinder, check
- Configurable eye level VF, check
- FF format, check
- Optional completely functioning mirrorbox with different mount, check.

You're right, it's much more then any imagined LX-D. Point is, Pentax didn't do it, Sony had to.

Exactly the point of this thread. Pentax was the biggest innovator. Even in the digital era, up untill 2010. Where are they going? If I have to judge from their most recent performance: A boring new K-2, with 28mp APS-C sensor and slightly improved AF in about a year or three.
Wow, you counted FF only twice Yet using 135 film was the most generic feature one could think of. And since when was the LX's mirror box optional?
Do you actually know the LX? Ever saw one? It was known for things like the OTF metering (working in very low light), and it had an interchangeable optical viewfinder system; both obviously absent on the A7 series. It was also much simpler, completely different interface, it didn't leak light, it could work without batteries...
But, I guess the A7 is closer to being a "digital LX" than a banana.

Indeed, there's a bad thing that some people are active here only to bash Pentax. They won't succeed in killing Pentax, though; fortunately they don't have that kind of power.
12-11-2014, 06:54 AM   #58
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It will be some time before I can buy more gears. But in the future, I still want all my new lenses to work as a system without the need of any kind of adapters. I want to grow into this system. I want Pentax to survive and not to bash It. I want K-mount to live whether the future will be EVF or OVF, APS-C or FF. Pentax without the K-mount won't be Pentax.
12-11-2014, 11:00 AM   #59
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I think that most of recent debate wouldn't take place if Ricoh didn't make that decision one year or more ago, to keep a total silence about his future product. I look on photo news, and I see that X firm is researching some multilayer sensor, other firm is working on organic sensor, other at some upgraded lenses, and so on. Every firm keeps some unofficial channels of communication with their consumers.

If Ricoh will change that strategy of total secret, they can creat a climate of trust, even when they must delay some delivery. They will not be the first to do this. But if anybody see launch after launch of new product, new technologies from competition, month after month, and very few and rare news from Ricoh, people begin to ask where Ricoh-Pentax is going.
12-11-2014, 11:27 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I think that most of recent debate wouldn't take place if Ricoh didn't make that decision one year or more ago, to keep a total silence about his future product. I look on photo news, and I see that X firm is researching some multilayer sensor, other firm is working on organic sensor, other at some upgraded lenses, and so on. Every firm keeps some unofficial channels of communication with their consumers.

If Ricoh will change that strategy of total secret, they can creat a climate of trust, even when they must delay some delivery. They will not be the first to do this. But if anybody see launch after launch of new product, new technologies from competition, month after month, and very few and rare news from Ricoh, people begin to ask where Ricoh-Pentax is going.
To be able to share what you're working on, you have to be working on something. Ricoh doesn't keep secrets, the three lenses they are working on were displayed as well.
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