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12-11-2014, 11:30 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
To be able to share what you're working on, you have to be working on something. Ricoh doesn't keep secrets, the three lenses they are working on were displayed as well.
If two of the lenses are indeed spec'd to cover FF image circle, then we should be expecting the FF camera soon...

12-11-2014, 11:58 AM - 3 Likes   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
But everybody is asking: "Pentax, be Pentax." (again)

Traditionally, Pentax was always very innovating. Who pioneered the SLR in Japan? Who brought 35mm format to the common people? The LX? Who made best use of IBIS and made its customers benifit from it the most? Tiny ltd lenses, the smallest DSLR, WR, etc... We can go on and on...

Suddenly it stopped and other brands took over that role. Pentax is currently only expanding on their innovations from the past. Upgrading a sensor here, some better AF there, but nothing new.

What does this thing look like to you guys:
I think your heavy bias toward what Sony has produced is blinding you a bit. In my opinion Pentax continues to be pretty innovative. You may not like them, or be interested in buying one but;
1. Pentax Q
2. Pentax K01
3. Pentax 645D and Z

I consider all of these to be VERY innovative.

On the SLR side they have recently put out some great entry level cameras that, IMHO, have really redefined what "entry level" should include.

Some people want Pentax to put out a full frame camera so badly they can't even see the rest of the line. I know that I am one of a very small minority, but I applaud Pentax/Ricoh for avoiding the full frame trap. I'm not sure people are even thinking logically about this. The sales of ALL digital SLR cameras has fallen of the proverbial cliff, even Pentax, but everyone is clamoring for Pentax to come out with a more expensive DSLR, just when sales are in the basement.

And though no one wants to believe it, APSC is a great format. Sensor size has nothing to do with image quality, only print size. How many of you have printed over 16x20? I'd be willing to bet it isn't too many. And for those who want to see their full frame lenses in full frame glory, don't forget that includes a lot of vignetting and soft corners you don't even see at all now.

I still insist, if you want full frame buy the 645D or Z. At least the lenses can handle the format. As for the cost? Save some money. If its important enough you will be able to save for it.
12-11-2014, 12:16 PM   #63
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Let's not forget the selectable AA filter. Pretty innovative, I'd say.
12-11-2014, 02:32 PM   #64
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I haven't read through the entire thread. Forgive me if someone posted something similar.


In my opinion, Pentax is going to have to stay afloat on the SLR ship. I don't see how they are going to be competitive in mirrorless with all of the competition. They're also going to need a FF SLR. I say this because the market for APS-C SLRs is going to contract. I don't see how they are going to compete in this area since mirrorless cams are less expensive to manufacturer.


I honestly am not enthusiastic for the brand's future. I wish I felt differently. I think it's going to be real tough attracting new users to the system. Forget about all of us - we're gluttons for punishment and will buy almost anything with the Pentax name on it.

---------- Post added 12-11-14 at 04:35 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Let's not forget the selectable AA filter. Pretty innovative, I'd say.
It is but... nobody (outside the Pentax community) really cared. They needed this feature with the 16MP cam. At 24MP you're not likely to encounter scenarios in which moiré is a factor.

12-12-2014, 07:32 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
The smaller market share does not mean the brand is dying.
No it doesn't, but no company wants to be the smallest player in a contracting market. Its going to take innovative products and strong marketing to make it. Fuji is giving the industry a clinic on marketing and innovation. The Fuji X-T1 is selling for $500 more than a K-3 and its not $500 better. The k-3 is actually a better body, with better ergonomics and more features. I prefer the RAW files of the K-3. I really like the X-T1, but its not as good as the K-3. SO why is Fuji kicking Ricoh in the proverbial market share? Lenses and marketing. In the past Pentax could hang its hat on it premium primes, but they have sat on the sidelines while Fuji has rolled out a line of premium primes that surpass the Pentax offering.

Fuji has connected with 300 photographers around the world who are high profile bloggers and do a lot of workshops, and these guys have created a huge marketing buzz for Fuji.

Sony has an unknown number of "Sony Artisan" photographers who also are high profile and they have done wonders in establishing credibility for Sony. The A7m2 is launching at almost the same price as the K-3 did last year. It really hits a sweet spot for size/performance/cost in mirrorless just like the D750 did for DSLR.

People have wanted Pentax/Ricoh to roll out a D-LX for years, and Sony has beat them to it. My A7m2 arrives today with K-mount adapter. Looking forward to using my 31mm as designed.

The brand might not be dying, but it might become irrelevant if Ricoh doesn't figure a few things out.
12-12-2014, 07:52 AM   #66
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Please, stop using Fuji as an example - with all the hype, they're far behind Pentax. Or, as I like to say, Pentax is beating Fuji with the Q.
12-12-2014, 11:56 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Pentax is beating Fuji with the Q.
12-12-2014, 12:01 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Please, stop using Fuji as an example - with all the hype, they're far behind Pentax. Or, as I like to say, Pentax is beating Fuji with the Q.
Congratulations, you made my wine come out my nose.

12-12-2014, 12:15 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
I think your heavy bias toward what Sony has produced is blinding you a bit. In my opinion Pentax continues to be pretty innovative. You may not like them, or be interested in buying one but;
1. Pentax Q
2. Pentax K01
3. Pentax 645D and Z
i think that the best example of pentax innovations is the k3, which was introduced in a timely manner... but:

the q is no longer available.
the k01 was probably a couple of years too late, because sony had a 24mp nex7 that had a real evf, on the market months before the k01 came out.
the 645d is up against much cheaper 36mp cameras from sony and nikon, and when the 50mp(?) sony/nikon/canon(?) hits the market in a year, they will be much cheaper than a 645z... probably not in the same pq league, but winning market share because of price and size.

there are a *lot* of pentax people talking about sony ff cameras on this forum, and most of 'em can't afford a 645z.
12-12-2014, 12:16 PM - 1 Like   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Please, stop using Fuji as an example - with all the hype, they're far behind Pentax. Or, as I like to say, Pentax is beating Fuji with the Q.
Fuji is a good example. They have only had the X-mount 3-4 years and are doing phenomenally well. How long has K-mount been in existence?

A guy who does SEO work was comparing internet key word searches for Fuji X-T1 and comparing it to the Sony A7. The discussion was on which mirrorless brand is getting the most interest in search, on blogs, YouTube videos, and on-line reviews. I asked him to run the K-3 to compare. Pentax and the K-3 didn't have 1/3 of the activity level of the X-T1 and the Sony A7. If Fuji is a niche, then Pentax is a super niche. The K-3 is selling for $800. The Fuji X-T1 is selling for $1,200. The K-3 is a better camera, but because Ricoh has pathetic marketing few people really knows how good the K-3 is. Because Fuji knows how to market, they can sell the X-T1 for 50% more than the K-3.

How many reviews are there on the Fuji 56mm F/1.4? How many on the DA* 55mm F/1.4? How many Youtube videos?
12-12-2014, 12:49 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Congratulations, you made my wine come out my nose.
Thank you.
FTR I'm using a Logitech Washable K310 keyboard, which is excellent for reading various stuff on the Internet.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Fuji is a good example. They have only had the X-mount 3-4 years and are doing phenomenally well. How long has K-mount been in existence?
Please define "phenomenally well". It's not sales, otherwise they'll at least appear in statistics such as the yearly BCNRanking's: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/137-photographic-industry-professionals/2...eport-bcn.html
I'm basing my "Pentax is beating Fuji with the Q" on sales - on the most MILC-friendly market i.e. Japan.

Is it hype, then? Indeed, Fuji is able to generate a lot of hype; Pentax just can't compete here.
12-12-2014, 12:49 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Fuji is a good example. They have only had the X-mount 3-4 years and are doing phenomenally well. How long has K-mount been in existence?

A guy who does SEO work was comparing internet key word searches for Fuji X-T1 and comparing it to the Sony A7. The discussion was on which mirrorless brand is getting the most interest in search, on blogs, YouTube videos, and on-line reviews. I asked him to run the K-3 to compare. Pentax and the K-3 didn't have 1/3 of the activity level of the X-T1 and the Sony A7. If Fuji is a niche, then Pentax is a super niche. The K-3 is selling for $800. The Fuji X-T1 is selling for $1,200. The K-3 is a better camera, but because Ricoh has pathetic marketing few people really knows how good the K-3 is. Because Fuji knows how to market, they can sell the X-T1 for 50% more than the K-3.

How many reviews are there on the Fuji 56mm F/1.4? How many on the DA* 55mm F/1.4? How many Youtube videos?
I was a Fuji X user, before I moved to Pentax and the K-5 II, and I have to say it's just a 'hype'. Although the IQ is good and has the best sooc JPEGs - by a mile - compared to any other brand I'm not going to mention the raw issues (and others like the 'waxy-skin effect, or the poor AF), it's over priced. The lens line-up is fantastic, but again, over priced.
PS: Have you checked how many Fuji there are on the used market? I was looking for a used K-5 II, and had a hard time finding one...
12-12-2014, 04:08 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flugelbinder Quote
I was a Fuji X user, before I moved to Pentax and the K-5 II, and I have to say it's just a 'hype'. Although the IQ is good and has the best sooc JPEGs - by a mile - compared to any other brand I'm not going to mention the raw issues (and others like the 'waxy-skin effect, or the poor AF), it's over priced. The lens line-up is fantastic, but again, over priced.
PS: Have you checked how many Fuji there are on the used market? I was looking for a used K-5 II, and had a hard time finding one...
I agree. A lot of it is hype. That why I point out how well their marketing is working. Fuji has had a very short product life cycle as they have been evolving very quickly with new models. This puts a lot of relatively new models on the used market as people upgrade. Longer release cycles will lead to fewer units on the used market. The K-3 is simply a better camera, but Fuji is building the best line up of APS-C lenses on the market. The number of used cameras on the market is also a good indicator of how many were sold new. If you don't sell many K-5II bodies new, then there can't be many used on the market. And if the price of used K-5II's fall far enough people just wont sell them. I've thought about selling my K-3, but they are so cheap new, its not worth it to me to sell.

I like what Fuji is doing and how they communicate with their customers & quickly release firmware updates. I won't be buying one. I just received my A7II, so I'm going in a different direction for my mirrorless body.
12-12-2014, 04:48 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
...I've thought about selling my K-3...
May I ask why?
12-12-2014, 11:24 PM - 2 Likes   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I agree. A lot of it is hype. That why I point out how well their marketing is working. Fuji has had a very short product life cycle as they have been evolving very quickly with new models. This puts a lot of relatively new models on the used market as people upgrade. Longer release cycles will lead to fewer units on the used market. The K-3 is simply a better camera, but Fuji is building the best line up of APS-C lenses on the market. The number of used cameras on the market is also a good indicator of how many were sold new. If you don't sell many K-5II bodies new, then there can't be many used on the market. And if the price of used K-5II's fall far enough people just wont sell them. I've thought about selling my K-3, but they are so cheap new, its not worth it to me to sell.

I like what Fuji is doing and how they communicate with their customers & quickly release firmware updates. I won't be buying one. I just received my A7II, so I'm going in a different direction for my mirrorless body.
Enjoy your A7II. Hope it works out for you.

I was all hyped to buy an A900 a couple years ago but decided to hold off at the last minute. Now I'm glad I did. Sony has a great track record of introducing new cameras but not a very good record of sticking with them for very long.

There are a lot of things I would like to see improve in the Pentax world, but Sony is one of the last directions I would go if I were to decide to jump.
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