[jimr-pdx]

I've enjoyed most every Sony sensor since the K-x, yet part of me (probably the anti-CaNikOny part ) feels uncomfortable giving Sony the business. The Samsung 20Mpx sensor is quite competitive with Sony's offering in the K-s1 and would get Pentax into the on-sensor PDAF game; something tells me that Pentax engineers could pull an AstroTracer-type surprise if they had that tech. Sony now has it also .. but then there's that Samsung backlit 28Mpx sensor. The NX-1 may not want company for another few months, but it would be exciting to see Pentax cameras with the more recent Samsungs inside. The hi-res WR and 4k-capable NX1 looks quite promising.

Here's a table of the two 20ish Mpixel sensors head to head via DxO. Since Pentax often squeezes out a few more points in the pipeline these could turn out as an even match, but even here I expect the difference would be hard to detect below iso3200.

[jatrax]

One thing to keep in mind is the engineers familiarity with a particular tech and the support they get from the manufacturer. Pentax has done very well with the Sony product but shifting to a new supplier and new support team may not be as easy as just placing a purchase order. Gaining the expertise to integrate a new sensor into their cameras may require a lot more work than moving up to another Sony sensor with at least the same terminology and support engineers.

Not disagreeing the Samsung stuff looks really interesting, but there are other considerations and hurdles.

[vonBaloney]

Yes, unless Sony really falls behind, probably more prudent just for Pentax to cajole them (as much as they can with their limited pull) for the features/specs the engineers would like to see next, rather than hopping to a new manufacturer every time some new tech arrives.

[Not a Number]

Isn't Nikon using Sony sensors?

[lesmore49]

Isn't Nikon using Sony sensors?

Yep...they use the same Sony Exmor sensor as Pentax does.

I don't understand why the OP is uncomfortable with Sony sensors ?

They are regarded by many as the best sensor in the business. I also have Canon equipment and I note that on Canon forums there is a number of people who wish Canon would use Sony sensors, instead of Canon sensors. They feel the Sony sensor is better.

[NeilGratton]

Sony sensors are great, but Samsung has brought out a couple of amazing sensors recently - particularly the 28MPx APS-C in the NX-1, which looks like it may outperform any current Sony APS-C sensor. Canon are lagging behind in some ways because their recent sensor advances have been targeted at improving autofocus rather than improving colours and dynamic range.

As mentioned above, Nikon (and, of course, Sony) use the same Sony sensors that Pentax has been using.

As jatrax points out, the changes needed to accommodate a different manufacturer's sensor may be quite extensive, and it's doubtful they can be made quickly. Ricoh need to take a long-term view - and the future of the Samsung sensors will depend on how well the NX-1 is marketed, among other things. With Nikon, Pentax and Sony cameras behind them, the future of the Sony sensors is stable - and with cameras out there like the A7R and A7S, it's clear Sony are innovating.

(With a great camera out there like the NX1, it is a shame Samsung didn't stick with the K-mount; I can see a great attraction in a kit that mixed Pentax DSLR and Samsung mirrorless).

[saladin]

I certainly wouldnt close the door on the idea of using Samsung sensors. If the rumours of them producing a monochrome sensor are true, it demonstrates a willingness to innovate that would fit with Ricoh's outlook and might open up new possibilities. All that said, with development seemingly underway on a full frame camera, i wouldnt expect a change from Sony technology at this stage.

[Blue]

I certainly wouldnt close the door on the idea of using Samsung sensors. If the rumours of them producing a monochrome sensor are true, it demonstrates a willingness to innovate that would fit with Ricoh's outlook and might open up new possibilities. All that said, with development seemingly underway on a full frame camera, i wouldnt expect a change from Sony technology at this stage.

It wouldn't be the first time Pentax used Samsung sensors.

[MyTZuS]

If Pentax sticks with Sony why wouldn't they get the same great sensors that others are getting now?

I have a Sony AX100 and have noticed that sensor coming out in many other models (non-sony) as well as the new DJI Inspire 4K quadcopter.

Would be nice to see that sensor in a Pentax body hmm?

[Na Horuk]

The reason Pentax used Sony sensor so much recently is that Sony sensors were really good and reasonably priced. But Pentax shouldn't limit itself to Sony just for the sake of it. I agree with the OP that Pentax should look at other manufacturers. I wrote off Samsung some time ago, but recently they are doing something very right with those NX cameras. Pentax should explore all options. Unfortunately, buying sensors is a complicated thing: its expensive, its the main part of the product, it will be bought in bulk, the sensor manufacturers play their own games, and so on.

Sony should not have a de facto monopoly in the APSC DSLR world. I hope viable alternative show up, not because I hate Sony, but because I like different options, and because it spurs innovation as well as price drops.

[jimr-pdx]

Sony should not have a de facto monopoly in the APSC DSLR world. I hope viable alternative show up, not because I hate Sony, but because I like different options, and because it spurs innovation as well as price drops.

I do not hate Sony either, but they are near the top of companies that display massive changes in direction - hardly comforting when they supply such important components. I'm sure glad their sensors do not force anyone to employ their jpeg or NR processing!

[GeneV]

Sony also makes sensors with on-sensor PDAF. I have the hybrid in my Sony A6000, I suspect Pentax just does not see the need for it in a DSLR oriented to still photos. If Pentax wanted to expand its base of sensor manufacturers, and stay concentrated on APS-C, Fuji's sensor might be interesting. In low light, the 16mp sensor in the X-Pro1 seems, from sample shots, to smoke the Sony counterpart used by Pentax. At least on the DPReview comparison, the X-Pro 1 hangs in there better with the full frame Canon 5D Mark III than other cropped sensors.

[philbaum]

Sony sensors are great, but Samsung has brought out a couple of amazing sensors recently - particularly the 28MPx APS-C in the NX-1, which looks like it may outperform any current Sony APS-C sensor. Canon are lagging behind in some ways because their recent sensor advances have been targeted at improving autofocus rather than improving colours and dynamic range.

As mentioned above, Nikon (and, of course, Sony) use the same Sony sensors that Pentax has been using.

As jatrax points out, the changes needed to accommodate a different manufacturer's sensor may be quite extensive, and it's doubtful they can be made quickly. Ricoh need to take a long-term view - and the future of the Samsung sensors will depend on how well the NX-1 is marketed, among other things. With Nikon, Pentax and Sony cameras behind them, the future of the Sony sensors is stable - and with cameras out there like the A7R and A7S, it's clear Sony are innovating.

(With a great camera out there like the NX1, it is a shame Samsung didn't stick with the K-mount; I can see a great attraction in a kit that mixed Pentax DSLR and Samsung mirrorless).

Canon also used a Sony sensor on one of the cameras - forget which one. There was a report out there that they were investing more money in their sensor operations - but i suppose it takes awhile to ramp up.

Has anyone noticed that Samsung's camera operation was sort of "boring" and "ho-hum" as long as they were making Pentax look-alikes. Then they switched over to mirrorless and their own designs/mount, and now its OMG - innovations in sensors and designs. Before the holidays - i dropped into a Best Buy chain and they had Samsung cameras at the end of one aisle in the camera area, and Sony cameras at the end of another aisle. Then some Nikon cameras in a center area that noone was looking at. The traditional cameras looked about as hip as your father's station wagon

And by the way - the Samsung cameras for the brief time i looked at them - no NX1 dang it, seemed to be well built.

[audiobomber]

If Pentax wanted to expand its base of sensor manufacturers, and stay concentrated on APS-C, Fuji's sensor might be interesting. In low light, the 16mp sensor in the X-Pro1 seems, from sample shots, to smoke the Sony counterpart used by Pentax. At least on the DPReview comparison, the X-Pro 1 hangs in there better with the full frame Canon 5D Mark III than other cropped sensors.

You've been sucked in Gene. Fuji lies about ISO and uses heavy NR on raw files. It's a shame that DXO can't test Fuji. The results would make the games obvious to everyone. From the DPR review of the XT-1:

"By our tests, the X-T1's measured sensitivities are around 1/2 - 2/3EV lower than marked, which is unusual for a modern camera. This means that for any given light level, the X-T1 has to use a significantly slower shutter speed, brighter aperture or higher ISO to get an image of the same brightness as an accurately-rated camera.

It's unusual to see this sort of discrepancy and we're disappointed that Fujifilm persists with a system that, while technically compliant with the ISO standard, ends up appearing rather disingenuous."

"Even a cursory glance at this comparison tells you that Adobe Camera Raw's processing of the X-T1's files looks radically different compared to its output from conventional Bayer cameras. Chroma noise is strikingly low, and detail retention is impressively high - very much like the camera's JPEGs, in fact. Because of this, direct comparisons have to be treated with a degree of caution - it's best to assume that the demosaicing process of the X-Trans CMOS sensor behaves as though it's doing substantial chroma noise reduction relative to ACR's standard treatment of Bayer sensors. Again we also have to factor in the X-T1's over-rating of its ISOs.

Even bearing this in mind, the X-T1 performs very well when its Raw images are converted with ACR. There's essentially no chroma noise, and luminance noise is suppressed until around ISO 3200, at which point you start to notice some hints of noise reduction artefacts - something not normally seen in Raw files. But again, it's very important to understand that the X-T1 looks artificially good in comparison to the other cameras here."
Fujifilm X-T1 Review: Digital Photography Review

Aside from all that, many people believe the X-Trans is a Sony sensor behind a Fuji colour array. The K-3's 24mp Sony sensor is easily superior, IMO. 16mp is yesterday's news.

[philbaum]

@audiobomber
16mp is yesterdays news, but 12mp is in style again (The Nikon D700 had 12mp and it was very popular for awhile.)

Just kidding. But Sony's A7S is a "wake-up" call to the industry and photographers, that there's value in large photosites and low light cameras. Its far from an ideal camera, but i have a friend with it and he loves it for non-video work. Of course it doesn't help that Sony has no intention of selling the sensor to other camera mfr. So Nikon, Canon and Samsung are out of luck unless they mfr their own low light sensors.